New site?...with different clue versions?

[arcana-exploration]

So you must have some photos of LDM gold in situ and the assay results by now.
And a few of your "hand picked team" at work out there, that like Jeff, you can share.
Spring 2018 was over a year ago.

Wayne do you feel it is more important whether Travis carved them or where the information on them came from. And do you think it is possible that the Tomlinson's with a long history of Texas Rangers, who had influence, might have been the source of an old map , that was handed down in the family? thanks

 

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[somehiker]

Wayne do you feel it is more important whether Travis carved them or where the information on them came from. And do you think it is possible that the Tomlinson's with a long history of Texas Rangers, who had influence, might have been the source of an old map , that was handed down in the family? thanks

I no longer see any reason to believe that TT carved them, or found them. Or even that he ever owned anything more than a set of rough copies of the originals, which he shared with friends in Hood River. And without having examined the actual "ground map" , and not just an old photo of it, I will only give that it may have been used by Travis and Phil L. to search for the treasure which they believed was out there somewhere. People make maps, use them and add to them all the time. I know I have done so myself. As a Texas Ranger, Pegleg may have been able to acquire a few Spanish or Mexican maps through various connections, but as we have seen, Travis' own collection, based on what was shared, appears to be made up of LDM related maps and other information we have all known about and possess copies of ourselves. In short, he became interested in the LDM, probably because of the publicity surrounding Adolph Ruth's death, like so many others, and eventually found himself hiking the Superstions a couple of weeks per year, looking for his own version of what it was all about.....the Peralta Treasure Room. In the end though, he didn't find it.

 

[Al D]

So you must have some photos of LDM gold in situ and the assay results by now.
And a few of your "hand picked team" at work out there, that like Jeff, you can share.
Spring 2018 was over a year ago.

This is always the case, everyone claims to have found it, but..........they can never prove it, yet still want us to donate money for them to search for what they claim they already found. No spring chickens here, must look elsewhere, maybe in New York?

 

[somehiker]

Jeff:
You asked this question awhile back.

Wayne, Two things, so how close is the information on the stones in the Dutchman Museum, to the Grey ones Travis did. And two the other stones seem to fit into the museum stones. I always thought he did whatever he did from an old map, so that makes sense. So here is the 24k Q- The heart stone (insert) is a site map, so what is your scenario there, because info on it is functional. Also if the stone copies in the museum are mostly representative of what Travis carved or, then the person who did the second set either saw the old map or the stones. Since there was at least one traced copy, which why would there be, maybe Travis made more than one Tracing and sold one more traced copies and later made the stones. Also, I think now that I am thinking this threw, Travis sold the little gray ones, his family, new about, later off the tracings he made the larger stones, his family did not know about, he then buried them in the desert to weather dig up later and sell a second larger set meaning both scenarios would make sense. Wayne, what is your take?

Not even close, and the tracing, or drawing, which RG called a "blueprint", looks like a random sampling and arrangement of symbols, letters and numbers he had selected from a four column page of common "treasure symbols" he also had. A copy of the same drawing, well worn scraps mostly, was also found in his belongings. This was likely one of the "scraps of paper" family members said he was referring to when seen carving the smaller stones at his mother's house in Cuero, Tx. I believe there were more drawings, but those are the only ones I've seen so far. I also believe that these smaller stones did exist, and were those actually sold by Alleen Tumlinson to Clarence Mitchell. This purchase, which Tom K. suspected was funded by Robert Garman, may have been the reason for the "extras" and other differences he included on his "Peralta Tesoro Mapa". This, plus most of the other evidence I have seen so far.....and I mean "evidence" based not just on the latter "The truth is" or "I was told" claims we so often read during our conversations in these boards....clearly shows that Travis did make the small stones described by the family IMO. There is no evidence that he ever sold any originals or "copies" of any maps or stone maps to anyone. Weathering is caused by exposure to the elements. That doesn't happen when stones are buried underground, especially ground that is rarely anything but dry. Besides, the family has always maintained that Travis did not make the stones at the Museum....and....that he didn't find them. I believe they have been telling the truth all along.

 

[somehiker]

This is always the case, everyone claims to have found it, but..........they can never prove it, yet still want us to donate money for them to search for what they claim they already found. No spring chickens here, must look elsewhere, maybe in New York?

If you were there, I'm sure you heard the same as me. How he was down to his last dollar and needed help to finish finding it.
That he was in such poor financial shape, and seemingly desperate that some of the listeners became quite concerned about where he was at that point.

 

[arcana-exploration]

Jeff:
You asked this question awhile back.



Not even close, and the tracing, or drawing, which RG called a "blueprint", looks like a random sampling and arrangement of symbols, letters and numbers he had selected from a four column page of common "treasure symbols" he also had. A copy of the same drawing, well worn scraps mostly, was also found in his belongings. This was likely one of the "scraps of paper" family members said he was referring to when seen carving the smaller stones at his mother's house in Truro, Tx. I believe there were more drawings, but those are the only ones I've seen so far. I also believe that these smaller stones did exist, and were those actually sold by Alleen Tumlinson to Clarence Mitchell. This purchase, which Tom K. suspected was funded by Robert Garman, may have been the reason for the "extras" and other differences he included on his "Peralta Tesoro Mapa". This, plus most of the other evidence I have seen so far.....and I mean "evidence" based not just on the latter "The truth is" or "I was told" claims we so often read during our conversations in these boards....clearly shows that Travis did make the small stones described by the family IMO. There is no evidence that he ever sold any originals or "copies" of any maps or stone maps to anyone. Weathering is caused by exposure to the elements. That doesn't happen when stones are buried underground, especially ground that is rarely anything but dry. Besides, the family has always maintained that Travis did not make the stones at the Museum....and....that he didn't find them. I believe they have been telling the truth all along.

So Wayne, as i have always contended it only matters who was the origanal source for information, yes? And who do believe is the leading candidate, I have my beliefs. The stones information is authentic, though I will say some, some of things are just worthlees cover. T feel the two most inmportant are 1. the priest- witch Stone,2 the heart site map. 3 others are rellavent but just as confirmation of the site.? Your thoughts?

 

[somehiker]

So Wayne, as i have always contended it only matters who was the origanal source for information, yes? And who do believe is the leading candidate, I have my beliefs. The stones information is authentic, though I will say some, some of things are just worthlees cover. T feel the two most inmportant are 1. the priest- witch Stone,2 the heart site map. 3 others are rellavent but just as confirmation of the site.? Your thoughts?

My thoughts ?

That trying to prove the stone maps are genuine is a waste of time, given all of the conflicting hearsay and evidence that exists.
The LDM is a better bet, since it is at least considered one of the World's lost treasures, and for this reason has been followed by far more of the world's population. In combining both, you will only dilute what could bring your group some attention, outside the confines of this and your own websites, and that is the LDM.
That is the direction I would go.....and have gone.

Insofar as original goes, if you are in the right place out there, there is very visible evidence as to who supplied the original and salient information. It wasn't a Jesuit, a Franciscan, a Spaniard, or an old Texas treasure hunters map. It was the ancestors of the ones who created a much older map, IMO, from which the inset crop was taken..... because they were the first ones there.

 

[wrmickel1]

My thoughts ?

That trying to prove the stone maps are genuine is a waste of time, given all of the conflicting hearsay and evidence that exists.
The LDM is a better bet, since it is at least considered one of the World's lost treasures, and for this reason has been followed by far more of the world's population. In combining both, you will only dilute what could bring your group some attention, outside the confines of this and your own websites, and that is the LDM.
That is the direction I would go.....and have gone.

Insofar as original goes, if you are in the right place out there, there is very visible evidence as to who supplied the original and salient information. It wasn't a Jesuit, a Franciscan, a Spaniard, or an old Texas treasure hunters map. It was the ancestors of the ones who created a much older map, IMO, from which the inset crop was taken..... because they were the first ones there.

Somehiker

I’d would think to combine the Two Ledgen’s into One would be a good move, But to combine them with Three, Your a Genius. And I mean that with all do respect Sir! That’s why Some pictographs in the field no make Sence sometimes. The sight is much older. They say the Aztec’s migration was North to south, And all those cliff dwellings about high up would lead one to believe they worshipped the Sun. Now when they fled the Spaniard’s and headed back to there Ancestral Home to bury there Treasure the Jesuit’s were among the Spaniard’s. So how bout the Jesuit’s translated the Treasure into a one God system and mapped it into Stone Since the Natives had map on stone right there.

kindda far out there, But!

wrmickel1

 

[arcana-exploration]

My thoughts ?

That trying to prove the stone maps are genuine is a waste of time, given all of the conflicting hearsay and evidence that exists.
The LDM is a better bet, since it is at least considered one of the World's lost treasures, and for this reason has been followed by far more of the world's population. In combining both, you will only dilute what could bring your group some attention, outside the confines of this and your own websites, and that is the LDM.
That is the direction I would go.....and have gone.

Insofar as original goes, if you are in the right place out there, there is very visible evidence as to who supplied the original and salient information. It wasn't a Jesuit, a Franciscan, a Spaniard, or an old Texas treasure hunters map. It was the ancestors of the ones who created a much older map, IMO, from which the inset crop was taken..... because they were the first ones there.

Wow, you know more than I suspected both you and Mick, but first I really do not care about the Stones other than the information on them, because the info is valid as to the location, but I agree on the LDM is at least known worldwide. Howard and I though, think the bigger story may be are who was first there first, and a lot of people would think we crazy if we came out without proof which we have. And Mick I know all the Cortez stuff and Montezuma sending them back to their ancestral home. When that is why I ask about no-Triangulum, I have to meet Capt and his wife for dinner, we are preparing for our next trip. I need to talk to the guys about what they think we should and should not show on the site. But I am not surprised but you guys are mostly right on except Wayne maybe one thing the info on the stones does tie to a map that ties directly to Spain we have absolute proff but I will be honest I have not totally figured out the specifics yet but L am getting closer every day. But absolutely great info and if people would you guys are crazy they will have to retract those words latter. Going to dinner. thank you Jeff.

 

[Al D]

If you were there, I'm sure you heard the same as me. How he was down to his last dollar and needed help to finish finding it.
That he was in such poor financial shape, and seemingly desperate that some of the listeners became quite concerned about where he was at that point.

Same old story unfortunately, there is so much history in those mountains that it is difficult for some, who have not grown up around them, to temper their discoveries...it is always just one hill over, just one more canyon.

 

[somehiker]

Somehiker

I’d would think to combine the Two Ledgen’s into One would be a good move, But to combine them with Three, Your a Genius. And I mean that with all do respect Sir! That’s why Some pictographs in the field no make Sence sometimes. The sight is much older. They say the Aztec’s migration was North to south, And all those cliff dwellings about high up would lead one to believe they worshipped the Sun. Now when they fled the Spaniard’s and headed back to there Ancestral Home to bury there Treasure the Jesuit’s were among the Spaniard’s. So how bout the Jesuit’s translated the Treasure into a one God system and mapped it into Stone Since the Natives had map on stone right there.

kindda far out there, But!

wrmickel1

While the LDM may not be directly linked to the place the stones represent, there is at least one other "legend" that is directly linked to the same area, with another map to use as reference.
For what it's worth, my money's still on the stones having been made by someone who was educated by Jesuits.
A native with Mexican ancestry going way back to it's roots in the Kayenta Region of Northern Arizona. And before that, to Chaco Canyon. And yes, created as a guide meant only for those with the necessary and proprietary information, along with the ability to recognize and apply empirical evidence to locate the place and collect the prize.
Did they, the Jesuits ? At this point in my travels and studies, I think not.

Dwellings up high and low, which doubled as fortresses when their occupants, the ruling elite, were threatened with mass uprisings by their subjects, who were forced to pay tribute in times of shortage. Three of those great houses, Montezuma's Castle, Tonto National Monument, and Casa Grande each have on an inner wall, a carving of a labyrinth. Todays Pima use the same mark as a tribal totem of sorts, likely in recognition of it's spiritual importance to their past and present .IMO.

It's all very interesting, although my conclusions shouldn't be taken as fact.

 

[arcana-exploration]

Boy, we are so close to being on the same train- except you have not mentioned the Hohokam, what are your thoughts there?

 

[Al D]

Boy, we are so close to being on the same train- except you have not mentioned the Hohokam, what are your thoughts there?

The Hohokam were gone by 1300, I seriously doubt that they had anything to do with gold in the Superstition Mountains

 

[azdave35]

The Hohokam were gone by 1300, I seriously doubt that they had anything to do with gold in the Superstition Mountains

this guy has to be pulling waynes leg...lol

 

[Al D]

this guy has to be pulling waynes leg...lol

I can’t make any negative comments, may hurt someones feelings

 

[azdave35]

I can’t make any negative comments, may hurt someones feelings

 

[somehiker]

Boy, we are so close to being on the same train- except you have not mentioned the Hohokam, what are your thoughts there?

The Hohokam were doing alright, with the extensive canal systems and wide range of crops making them one of the largest and most successful civilizations in the Western Hemisphere. They were part of a huge trading network that stretched from the Four Corners, down to Central Mexico, and from the Pacific Coast, as far east as the Rio Grande. Likely played a part as middle men to some degree as well, since most of the trade crossed their territory, no mater what direction the traders were going. There is no evidence the Hohokam had any use for gold, but it's well known that other societies, mainly towards the southern extent did. So some may have sourced gold from stream beds and outcroppings for trade purposes with those traders during the classic phase, when everything was at it's peak of development. I doubt their interests would have gone beyond that.

I don't see us as being very close to being on the same train. I'm not even sure we are on the same tracks at this point. I've never claimed to have found anything of monetary value out there, let alone the LDM or absolute proof thereof. I'd have to be willing to post good photos of the mine itself, outside and inside, and closeups of the gold in situ before I would consider making that claim.

 

[somehiker]

this guy has to be pulling waynes leg...lol

In this case, I think he's just trying to feel his way through.
But....
It wouldn't be the first time someone's tried to or done that.
And sometimes, when it wasn't working.....they would eventually delete the whole thread.
Which is something the rules should forbid IMO.
Jim B. on the other site, put a stop to it.....cause it was getting ridiculous.
A bit to late though, I think....since it drove a lot of traffic away at the time, and hasn't recovered yet.

 

[coazon de oro]

Jeff:
You asked this question awhile back.



Not even close, and the tracing, or drawing, which RG called a "blueprint", looks like a random sampling and arrangement of symbols, letters and numbers he had selected from a four column page of common "treasure symbols" he also had. A copy of the same drawing, well worn scraps mostly, was also found in his belongings. This was likely one of the "scraps of paper" family members said he was referring to when seen carving the smaller stones at his mother's house in Cuero, Tx. I believe there were more drawings, but those are the only ones I've seen so far. I also believe that these smaller stones did exist, and were those actually sold by Alleen Tumlinson to Clarence Mitchell. This purchase, which Tom K. suspected was funded by Robert Garman, may have been the reason for the "extras" and other differences he included on his "Peralta Tesoro Mapa". This, plus most of the other evidence I have seen so far.....and I mean "evidence" based not just on the latter "The truth is" or "I was told" claims we so often read during our conversations in these boards....clearly shows that Travis did make the small stones described by the family IMO. There is no evidence that he ever sold any originals or "copies" of any maps or stone maps to anyone. Weathering is caused by exposure to the elements. That doesn't happen when stones are buried underground, especially ground that is rarely anything but dry. Besides, the family has always maintained that Travis did not make the stones at the Museum....and....that he didn't find them. I believe they have been telling the truth all along.

Howdy Wayne,

The PSM's are very real, and all four are needed to pinpoint the spot they lead too. Travis did find them as he said he did, and where he said he did. RG destroyed the real story as he formed his own. I feel sorry for Travis' family members who were beguiled by a smooth talker, to say things that weren't true. Such as two of them swearing seeing the Heart Stone being glued with tire patch glue. If Travis didn't find them, how did they end up on his car bumper? I can assure you that Peg Leg never had a map that was related to the PSM's, the Fish map is not that old, and look at it's condition.

Homar

 

[wrmickel1]

While the LDM may not be directly linked to the place the stones represent, there is at least one other "legend" that is directly linked to the same area, with another map to use as reference.
For what it's worth, my money's still on the stones having been made by someone who was educated by Jesuits.
A native with Mexican ancestry going way back to it's roots in the Kayenta Region of Northern Arizona. And before that, to Chaco Canyon. And yes, created as a guide meant only for those with the necessary and proprietary information, along with the ability to recognize and apply empirical evidence to locate the place and collect the prize.
Did they, the Jesuits ? At this point in my travels and studies, I think not.

Dwellings up high and low, which doubled as fortresses when their occupants, the ruling elite, were threatened with mass uprisings by their subjects, who were forced to pay tribute in times of shortage. Three of those great houses, Montezuma's Castle, Tonto National Monument, and Casa Grande each have on an inner wall, a carving of a labyrinth. Todays Pima use the same mark as a tribal totem of sorts, likely in recognition of it's spiritual importance to their past and present .IMO.

It's all very interesting, although my conclusions shouldn't be taken as fact.

Yeah been to Casa Grande, Did you notice right above the Entrance it’s Clearly Marked With A 7.

The Sabbath

wrmickel1