New site?...with different clue versions?

[azdave35]

I hope you are including the fake treasure signs made by Clarence Mitchell

dont forget the hundreds of other fake maps ,carvings and symbols...how about the one tom pranked everyone with

 

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[sailaway]

Wayne do you even know the make up of the rocks you are posting pictures of?

Pozzolanic reactions occur over long time scales (months to years). The main mechanism involves the transportation of calcium hydroxide via water within the soil to combine with the aluminate and/or silicate clay minerals (Duxson et al., 2007, The high surface area aluminate and silicate minerals are pozzolan phases, which in the presence of water and an alkali (e.g., calcium) produce cementitious materials, comprising calcium silicates and aluminate hydrates (Bergado et al., 1996). Any dissolved Ca2+ ions within the soil then react with any dissolved SiO2 and Al2O3 located on clay particles to produce hydrated gels of C-S-H and C-A-H, which cement soil particles together.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/pozzolanic-reaction

I have posted in the past about cements and silicate hydroxide and the bonding of Volcanic Ash.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozzolan
There is a reason for no chisel marks because you are looking at a chemical reaction that caused hardening of the rock through the use of sulfur and water in the paints. Then erosion of softer stone left what appears to be carvings. Am not saying there was not work done on the rock prior to painting.
The picture of yours appears to me to be the grave of a great death ball player in the heart between two other players. pre - Anglo most likely Olmac
https://www.ancient.eu/article/604/the-ball-game-of-mesoamerica/

 

[somehiker]

do you remember which family member you talked to on the phone?

Yes....their names are in the notes I made while on the phone.
I've checked them all out. They are all legit. For two, I have numbers I can call if I need more info, but I haven't since I feel that should be a two way street, when it comes to some of what we each know and have seen. But, considering how it all fell apart at the end, I wouldn't be surprised if no-one from that side of the history will be willing to discuss anything now. At least until something of value is found and publicized.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne do you even know the make up of the rocks you are posting pictures of?
View attachment 1724177 View attachment 1724186

I have posted in the past about cements and silicate hydroxide and the bonding of Volcanic Ash.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozzolan

The picture of yours appears to me to be the grave of a great death ball player in the heart between two other players. pre - Anglo most likely Olmac
https://www.ancient.eu/article/604/the-ball-game-of-mesoamerica/

Yes.
Other than in a few places where folds and faulting, tipping and basaltic intrusions etc. have exposed other types of rock, everything is volcanic tuff as much as several hundred feet thick in places. The geology is complex, so I'm not about to get too specific, unless I see a need to
No.....that photo has nothing to do with a grave, let alone a Olmec ball player's grave.
It's just something the map maker happened to see as a useful add-on, which would help the reader to establish where he was on the landscape. Probably a natural thing, or mostly natural, that would be there for a long time.

 

[azdave35]

Yes....their names are in the notes I made while on the phone.
I've checked them all out. They are all legit. For two, I have numbers I can call if I need more info, but I haven't since I feel that should be a two way street, when it comes to some of what we each know and have seen. But, considering how it all fell apart at the end, I wouldn't be surprised if no-one from that side of the history will be willing to discuss anything now. At least until something of value is found and publicized.

i hear you on that...i'm sure i talked to the same people you did....i wouldn't hold your breath on anything going public..like you said..it did kinda fall apart

 

[wrmickel1]

I hope you are including the fake treasure signs made by Clarence Mitchell

Sure, But there’s no proof of that either, Just more Yarn!

The Mandan Indians have a Ledgen of a Great Treasure being moved, Then they migrated North and settled here. They say they gave a gold Box to Lewis and Clark from that Treasure. It’s true I looked it up and Lewis and Clark said they received a golden box from them. They claim the place is a Mountain guarded by there ancestors turned to stone.

I even think it’s been proven the Mandan tribe are related to Aztec’s

They called the place Azlan

Nothing to do with the Stones but Interesting.

wrmickel1

 

[Al D]

Sure, But there’s no proof of that either, Just more Yarn

wrmickel1

I disagree, his booklet shows a photo of a marked cactus which was obviously carved and painted just prior to that photo being taken

 

[Oroblanco]

You or no one else has ever provided evidence to support that. So if you gots some bring it to the table Sir.

babymick1

Travis absolutely carved the treasure chest/ship stone, and several others at the farm house. That fact alone should make you suspect the other stones and his tale of having 'found' them. Travis liked to carve stone, and clearly liked the treasure theme hence the treasure chest and Spanish galleon stone. But you are certainly welcome to believe anything you prefer.

 

[wrmickel1]

I disagree, his booklet shows a photo of a marked cactus which was obviously carved and painted just prior to that photo being taken

Suspect, is not proof! Sir

wrmickel1

 

[wrmickel1]

Travis absolutely carved the treasure chest/ship stone, and several others at the farm house. That fact alone should make you suspect the other stones and his tale of having 'found' them. Travis liked to carve stone, and clearly liked the treasure theme hence the treasure chest and Spanish galleon stone. But you are certainly welcome to believe anything you prefer.

Suspect, is not proof!

Wrmickel1

 

[Al D]

Suspect, is not proof! Sir

wrmickel1

You would have to be very naive or gullible to look at that photo and believe that it was authentic, that added to the indication that Clarence Mitchell was a con man

 

[gollum]

You would have to be very naive or gullible to look at that photo and believe that it was authentic, that added to the FACT that Clarence Mitchell was a con man

Please provide any evidence you may have to show Mitchell was a "con man"? Who did he con?

He obviously believed the Stone Maps were authentic as he paid $1200 dollars for them in 1961. MOEL Inc was a real company. He may have used the Stone Maps to get investors, but no charges of fraud were ever filed against him. The only reason the Stone Maps were donated to the Flagg Foundation is because the company was breaking up, and there was a fight over ownership. Why fight over them? Everybody knew what the carvings on the Stone Maps were. No secrets there.

Mike

 

[gollum]

Travis absolutely carved the treasure chest/ship stone, and several others at the farm house. That fact alone should make you suspect the other stones and his tale of having 'found' them. Travis liked to carve stone, and clearly liked the treasure theme hence the treasure chest and Spanish galleon stone. But you are certainly welcome to believe anything you prefer.

Roy,

Now, now! You can't say "absolutely" Travis carved the Stone Maps! You did not personally watch him do it. He never admitted to doing so (other than saying he added some things to them in case they were stolen). I agree that the best evidence makes it appear Travis did carve them. I think it is more likely than not he did carve them. That said, I do have some doubts (see my new thread).

Mike

 

[Super Dog]

Don't need Waltz, It's past Apache Junction a couple of miles on the right. Down the ravine and up hill on right. I can send cord. of needed. What you really want to look for are the buried storehouses waiting on the river mules. Probably 200 still in the ground spread across U.S. Or the 200 hundred the indians collected off the shores and buried in piles occasionally. If you can find the old kiln they used you are close. They are not small and the indians would take them over and use as pottery kilns. To find one look for tailings. If you can still see a native american pottery kiln it was originally Spanish. They are not small. Some 60 x 60 feet across. Tons of Gold!
Or you could just go find The Tree of Life and experience it all but that's another post for another day.

 

[wrmickel1]

Super dog

Any Gold left in it.

wrmickel1

 

[Al D]

Please provide any evidence you may have to show Mitchell was a "con man"? Who did he con?

He obviously believed the Stone Maps were authentic as he paid $1200 dollars for them in 1961. MOEL Inc was a real company. He may have used the Stone Maps to get investors, but no charges of fraud were ever filed against him. The only reason the Stone Maps were donated to the Flagg Foundation is because the company was breaking up, and there was a fight over ownership. Why fight over them? Everybody knew what the carvings on the Stone Maps were. No secrets there.

Mike

Just read his booklet, a con man is a person who attempts to con people, being unsuccessful, or unconvicted does not absolve him of the title, IMO

 

[Al D]

Please provide any evidence you may have to show Mitchell was a "con man"? Who did he con?

He obviously believed the Stone Maps were authentic as he paid $1200 dollars for them in 1961. MOEL Inc was a real company. He may have used the Stone Maps to get investors, but no charges of fraud were ever filed against him. The only reason the Stone Maps were donated to the Flagg Foundation is because the company was breaking up, and there was a fight over ownership. Why fight over them? Everybody knew what the carvings on the Stone Maps were. No secrets there.

Mike

So...Mitchell was on the level but Bob Ward was nuts?
I know you did not make that statement, but it is the general consensus. It is apparent to me that Ward researched much of the carvings in the mountains which were most likely made by Mitchell to draw in investors.
yes, he did believe the Tablets were real, but whatever evidence he had for that, he did not share it with his investors, as you stated, “Why go after the stones”
apparently, his investors did not believe that he was being flush with them.
and still, the story of how they were “found” has more holes than Swiss cheese.
lets not forget that his company MOEL, ended up being investigated by the SEC, that is indicative enough, wether convicted or not is just splitting gray hairs

 

[gollum]

So...Mitchell was on the level but Bob Ward was nuts?
I know you did not make that statement, but it is the general consensus. It is apparent to me that Ward researched much of the carvings in the mountains which were most likely made by Mitchell to draw in investors.
yes, he did believe the Tablets were real, but whatever evidence he had for that, he did not share it with his investors, as you stated, “Why go after the stones”
apparently, his investors did not believe that he was being flush with them.
and still, the story of how they were “found” has more holes than Swiss cheese.
lets not forget that his company MOEL, ended up being investigated by the SEC, that is indicative enough, wether convicted or not is just splitting gray hairs

Yes, I have all the court documents from the SEC Investigation. Do you know what it was for? Not for fraud. Not for anything bad. MOEL had not filed one of the many forms necessary to sell shares in the corporation. No big deal. Just couldn't sell shares in the company until proper forms filed.

Bob Ward wasn't completely nuts. He was an extremely smart guy. He just had some alcohol and mental issues. How does the old saying go "It's a thin line between genius and lunacy".

Mike

 

[wrmickel1]

Yes, I have all the court documents from the SEC Investigation. Do you know what it was for? Not for fraud. Not for anything bad. MOEL had not filed one of the many forms necessary to sell shares in the corporation. No big deal. Just couldn't sell shares in the company until proper forms filed.

Bob Ward wasn't completely nuts. He was an extremely smart guy. He just had some alcohol and mental issues. How does the old saying go "It's a thin line between genius and lunacy".




Mike

well I’m going with Genius for me anyway, those other two well, Who Knows!

wrmickel1

 

[Al D]

Yes, I have all the court documents from the SEC Investigation. Do you know what it was for? Not for fraud. Not for anything bad. MOEL had not filed one of the many forms necessary to sell shares in the corporation. No big deal. Just couldn't sell shares in the company until proper forms filed.

Bob Ward wasn't completely nuts. He was an extremely smart guy. He just had some alcohol and mental issues. How does the old saying go "It's a thin line between genius and lunacy".

Mike

588,000 shares, 120 some investors over various states, it was a little more than just a forms infraction.
no capital equipment to justify the funds raised, just the questionable stone maps, it reads like a con, seems the SEC thought so even though they could not shut him down on speculation, they did find something which they could use to do so.
at about 10 cents a share, where did the $58,000 go?
no matter how you try to slice it, there was little that was legit about Clarence Mitchell and MOEL