NEED HELP WITH PHOTO ID OF POSSIBLE FAMOUS PERSON

[Bigcypresshunter]

Okey dokey, then. So what does all of this mean? Let's say it is a Victorian portrait done in pastel oils. Does that make it better and more valuable than a hand colored photograph? And who the heck is that guy, anyway? Inquiring minds want to know!

SBB

I thought at first that if a painting, it would be more likely someone rich but thinking about it, there could have been painters on the street corner. I just dont know.

Either way its a part of Americana history.

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

By the way ... under my powerful spotlight I also discovered that what I previously thought was penciled text at the top/center is actually ink. But not the Mal no6 part in the upper left corner. That is definitely in pencil.

Big Cy may be right. There could easily have been a portrait artist on every street corner. But then again, from a distance the portrait looks so life-like it appears it was done by an extremely talented artist. Now I'm wondering if the "inked" text has a whole new meaning in "light" of these new observations? Too many questions and too few answers!

Irregardless, without knowing who the man in the portrait is and who the artist was that painted it, I'd say it remains in a category of mysterious unknowns. Which doesn't necessarily make it valuable, but definitely an interesting topic of conversation.

So with this said, I think I will go ahead and box it up until I can find a nice vintage frame to display it in. When that occurs I will be back and show you the results.

Should I green check mark this as solved, or just let if fade into oblivion on it's own?

"Much to do about nothing"

Signed ... SODABOTTLEBOB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The man or artist has not been solved so I would not green check it, if it were mine.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm calling it quits for the day, and most likely tomorrow as well ... family arriving soon. But since I don't want to end this with "nothing," I thought I would share the following for your consideration ...

In German Mal means times, as in "three times a day" or "two times two is four" It can also mean Meal, but then it would be with a capital "M". It is sometimes part of a phrase like "warte mal" - "wait a bit" or "schau mal!" - "just look!"

SBB

 

[mojjax]

I agree with Bigcy . Don't green check it yet Have a happy Independence Day

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is a step by step "how to" of pastel portraits. The artist says he usually works from photographs. http://www.art-rageous.net/PortraitSteps.html

While many parts of yours look shaded like a pastel, the brush strokes made me think water painting. I used to sketch on stage as a child in front of artistic talented audiences with pencil and chaulk at the Carnegie Museum of Art in Pittsburgh but its been a long long time.


ADDED: Its been a long time ago but guess what- I found my teacher. I used to paint on this stage. Brings back memories. I used to be so nervous on the microphone. I told my Mom to throw all my old pastels/paintings away. I cant believe she saved them all these years. I didnt think they were that good. Found my old pin.

 

[njguy]

how about a younger William Faulkner?

 

[NGE]

Remarkable likeness. I have been watching this thread since the beginning, and I think it would be easier to nail down the I.D. and artist of one of those " Black Velvet " oil paintings sold along the tourist routes, (anywhere USA) as a matter of fact, this might have been the " Black Velvet " syle of that time period. Meaning evrybody including Uncl Joe was doing it. A fad, if you will.........NGE

 

[Goldwind]

SBB..In your last 2pics, does it show a scar on his right cheek? I found one mention of TR having a straightrazor scar as well as the large one under his R ear...

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

njguy ~

Thanks for the suggestion. Below is a picture of a 'young' William Faulkner who was born in 1897 and died in 1962.

I took a minute this morning to research the paper/cardboard itself and found the following ...

Academy Board :

A type of cardboard sheet used as a support for painting, especially in oils. It is made of sheets of paper sized and pressed together, treated with a ground, and sometimes embossed with an imitation canvas grain. Academy board was introduced in about 1850 and because of its relative cheapness was popular in art schools and with amateur painters, although it was also used by professional artists for sketches and studies. It has now largely been superseded by canvas board.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Goldwind ~

You had me going there for a minute. But unfortuniately what you see is a scratch in the paint and not a scar. The scratch runs from the cheek through the mustache and lip. Nice try though. I appreciate it.

SBB

 

[Goldwind]

SBB..when I saw the possible scar, I stayed up til 4 in the morning trying to find a matching pic!!...That's life..LOL

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

P.S. ~

Goldwind: One of the rules of the game here is not to lose any sleep over this.

Regarding the acadamey board; it is really not conclusive of anything and confuses me somewhat because the portrait is definitely on a thin piece of paper which has been glued to a piece of cardboard. Which takes me back to the 'albumen print' again that was used in old photographs. At present I think our best clue is the stamped word located vertically just above the right shoulder. I believe that by identifying this mark it will eventually lead to identifying the maker of the paper, and possibly a date that will hopefully lead to other clues.

Below is the mark again, which starts with either a capital R or K

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Remember the RIV_ _ that was pointed out earlier by Big Cy? Check this out!

It also became apparent during the 1850's that albumen paper required a certain type of raw paper stock in order to obtain the best results. Experience showed that a thin, smooth paper of exceptionally high quality was necessary for success. The production of such paper was no easy matter; the main difficulties were the prevention of metal flecks in the paper and the need for an abundant supply of mineral-free water. These kinds of impurities proved extremely troublesome both in the paper manufacturing process and also when the paper was coated with highly reactive photographic solutions. The causes of metal flecks in the rawstock were metal buttons left in the rags used to make the paper, and bits of metal breaking off the paper-making machinery itself. Since water purification techniques were not very advanced at that time, only nature could provide a supply of mineral-free water, and such places were rare. The mill of the Blanchet Frères et Kléber Co. in Rives, France, was located in a valley and used water from a nearby mountain lake, fed by "the melting of the alpine snows. Apart from all this was the enormous amount of capital required to construct a paper mill, and the fact that the skill and experience of the staff above all else contributed to a consistently good paper.

Below: 1885 advertisement for albumen paper. Note references to "Rives" and "Saxe" rawstock.

It is no wonder that only two paper mills in the world managed to consistently produce a paper of the necessary quality, and these two mills were able to maintain their monopoly from the 1860's until approximately World War I. They were the above-mentioned Blanchet Frères et Klébler Co. in Rives, France (hence their product was known as the "Rives" paper) and Steinbach and Company, located in Malmedy, Belgium (at that time part of Germany). Steinbach paper was known outside Germany as "Saxe" paper. Both papers were machine-made all-rag papers, sized with a mixture of starch and resin soap. One analysis of Rives photographic rawstock conducted in 1904 showed it to be comprised of 85% linen fiber and 15% cotton fiber.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Is it possible the stamped word(s) read ...

RIVES & SAXE

I don't have time to research this today, but if the company used a makers mark, we should be able to find it.

SBB

 

[Goldwind]

SBB..can you post a close-up pic of where the first 4 letters are from the one you cleaned...the larger they are the easier it is to pick up on scratches/scars...which I could not see until you enlarged the photo..thanks...gene

 

[Goldwind]

SBB..I was thinking the 2nd letter was an "N", but "IV" looks like an N too...If nothing else, I'm getting a good education!

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Goldwind ~

Here ya go ... But remember, some of the stamped word came off when I did my experiment. I have since given up on it so as not to make it worse. This picture is going to be as good as it gets!

 

[joecoin]

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[Goldwind]

I am trying to figure out the stamped word...this is my speculation as to what I see...any or ideas would be appreciated...any idea is better than no idea!!