Mines, Mines, and More Mines.

[releventchair]

[Nobody knows who made the first
discover of gold and silver in Colorado. The
earliest record dates to the 1760s, probably 1765,
when the Spanish explored Juan Maria de Rivera
led a party in the San Juan Mountains searching for
a non-desert route from Santa Fe to California. In
the 1860s and 1870s, American miners may have
found evidence of Spanish efforts, but that
evidence was lost in new development. If the
Spanish miners did indeed recover gold, silver, or
other metals from ore, productions must have been
small and inconsequential. It produced no rush or
permanent settlement, but probably initiated or
contributed to the rumors of gold in the Rocky
Mountain region.
Fur trappers in search of beaver began
pushing into the Rocky Mountains toward the end
of the eighteenth century, and their work in the
cold remote waters led to gold discoveries. Perhaps the earliest evolved from the work of James
Purcell, a trapper out of St. Louis. Around 1800, he
found gold in what is today South Park, in central
Colorado, but fled the Rockies to escape hostile
Indians. The rumors and unconfirmed reports
spread by trappers and traders about gold in the
mountains formed part of the basis that eventually
led to mining development decades later.]
http://www.historycolorado.org/sites/default/files/files/OAHP/crforms_edumat/pdfs/1623.pdf

 

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[Old Silver]

You have people mining in the region after the described period, but even then, still not REFINING SILVER IN THE REQUIRED EFFICIENCY AND AMOUNTS!!!! This is the real history and the real science of the situation.

Also, what is at debate here are the letters, the ones that detail the discovery and working of the alleged gold and silver operation, or hard rock mine, so you either put stock in those letters or you don't. Which is it? If you don't put stock in the alleged Beale mine then this means that you agree that the author of those letters wasn't telling the truth, so, what on earth makes you think Santa Fe, St. Louis, or any of the rest of those letters are true in the face of so much contrary evidence and the complete lack of any supporting evidence? Those letters are a yarn, a treasure tale that leaves you with only one survivor to pass the tale along but only after he is dead and unable to dispute it. Sound familiar?

You're still trying to make it about something I'm not talking about. The Beale story says gold and silver, it says nothing about refining. And what I have is mining being done with primitive equipment, just like Beale would have had. There's no argument.

What I put stock in is the POSSIBILITY. I have evidence that shows it was possible. I'll take the evidence over someone's opinion.

In the face of so much contrary evidence? Like what?

 

[Old Silver]

[Nobody knows who made the first
discover of gold and silver in Colorado.

But that doesn't stop some people from thinking they know everything about it.

 

[ECS]

[... Perhaps the earliest evolved from the work of James
Purcell, a trapper out of St. Louis. Around 1800, he
found gold in what is today South Park, in central
Colorado, but fled the Rockies to escape hostile
Indians. The rumors and unconfirmed reports
spread by trappers and traders about gold in the
mountains formed part of the basis that eventually
led to mining development decades later.]
http://www.historycolorado.org/sites/default/files/files/OAHP/crforms_edumat/pdfs/1623.pdf

Note that Purcell encountered and had to escape "hostile Indians".
That discredits the Beale story of helpful "friendly Indians", one of many "tells" that the narrative is fiction.

 

[releventchair]

Note that Purcell encountered and had to escape "hostile Indians".
That discredits the Beale story of helpful "friendly Indians", one of many "tells" that the narrative is fiction.

Ahh , but how fun fiction can be in treasure tales.

 

[Old Silver]

Note that Purcell encountered and had to escape "hostile Indians".
That discredits the Beale story of helpful "friendly Indians", one of many "tells" that the narrative is fiction.

Only if you discount the fact that at different times in history there were both friendly, and hostile Indians at the same time.

 

[ECS]

Only if you discount the fact that at different times in history there were both friendly, and hostile Indians at the same time.

Not during that time in that territory.

 

[Old Silver]

Not during that time in that territory.

And you know that for a fact?

 

[ECS]

...

Documented mining history clearly says it wasn't possible? I am in possession of documented mining history that proves it possible, because people were doing that very thing, in that very area, without modern equipment.

With all the documented information that has been posted on this tread by several TN members, you must be the only one who possesses documented mining history contrary to that of the experts.

 

[Old Silver]

With all the documented information that has been posted on this tread by several TN members, you must be the only one who possesses documented mining history contrary to that of the experts.

Maybe so, before I posted some of it. Now it belongs to TN. And some of it I haven't posted. But there's enough of it here that shows what I have said is right. Do your homework, ECS.

 

[ECS]

I have, as well as others here on TN, and the consensus proves that NO mines existed in the discussed period and location, as well as NO "friendly Indian" tribes that would help those on their land.

 

[Old Silver]

I have, as well as others here on TN, and the consensus proves that NO mines existed in the discussed period and location, as well as NO "friendly Indian" tribes that would help those on their land.

No mines existed in the discussed period and location, huh. So they just appeared there sometime between 1817 and 1858 when they were discovered by mainstream mining companies? Are you sure you want to claim those mines didn't exist until 1858? Think about it.

 

[doverturtle]

I doubt that anyone would trade jewels for mined ore. Which means either the ore was refined before being transported, or the Beale party happened to find a source of pure gold and silver. Or the story is a fabrication.

 

[bigscoop]

I doubt that anyone would trade jewels for mined ore. Which means either the ore was refined before being transported, or the Beale party happened to find a source of pure gold and silver. Or the story is a fabrication.

Exactly! And since there was no known process for refining the SILVER from the region in question during the era then this simply means that whoever wrote the details in the letters regarding the mine and it's operation didn't possess intimate knowledge about the silver ore within the region.

 

[Old Silver]

I doubt that anyone would trade jewels for mined ore. Which means either the ore was refined before being transported, or the Beale party happened to find a source of pure gold and silver. Or the story is a fabrication.

For the right amount of ore, they would. But the main point here is that it was possible to mine that much ore in that region, in a three year period by more than thirty men. This has been called impossible, but I have documented evidence that shows it's possible.

 

[lastleg]

Documented evidence? What documented evidence? I don't see any documented evidence.

 

[Old Silver]

Documented evidence? What documented evidence? I don't see any documented evidence.

Please don't make trouble. I have posted much of what I'm talking about, and some I haven't posted.

 

[Old Silver]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/beale-codes/496093-indian-massacre-miners-working-1823-a.html

If you read the above thread, with all the links, you should be able to see what I've been talking about. And remember, the price of gold in 1820 was almost as much as it was in the 1890's. The price of silver in 1820 was even more than it was in the 1890's. I have more, but this should be enough. Also remember, I'm not claiming this as proof that the Beale expedition happened. I'm simply showing that the amounts of gold and silver ore in that area and time, especially with 30+ men, were possible.

 

[bigscoop]

But we're not talking "ore"....instead, "silver & gold" is clearly being the detailed hook to the entire narration. If ore was the subject then there is no possible way that the author of C2 could be so certain how much "gold & silver" he even possessed in all of that "ore" unless each individual piece of that ore had been assayed, which then brings us to the subject of time and volume. Even if his ore was of an extremely high assay, say 50%, then all of the detailed weights in C2 would have to be doubled just so he could arrive at the amount of "gold & silver" he claims he has deposited. On top of this, and has already been mentioned a couple of times now, how does one go about trading ore, an ore that has little chance of being refined without a great deal of loss, for jewels? What jeweler in his right mind would trade for an ore that he has no means to refine without suffering substantial loss, if he even had the resources to refine it in the first place, which is extremely doubtful, not to mention that he certainly wasn't going to refine it anywhere close to St. Louis without sure risk of starting the next silver rush, which clearly never happened. Such a HUGE and timely trade itself would have certainly cancelled any chance of keeping the alleged party's secret a secret. So quite clearly the letters are simply a fabrication by someone who didn't possess intimate knowledge about the subject of silver and it's existing refining issues.

 

[Old Silver]

But we're not talking "ore"....instead, "silver & gold" is clearly being the detailed hook to the entire narration. If ore was the subject then there is no possible way that the author of C2 could be so certain how much "gold & silver" he even possessed in all of that "ore" unless each individual piece of that ore had been assayed, which then brings us to the subject of time and volume. Even if his ore was of an extremely high assay, say 50%, then all of the detailed weights in C2 would have to be doubled just so he could arrive at the amount of "gold & silver" he claims he has deposited. On top of this, and has already been mentioned a couple of times now, how does one go about trading ore, an ore that has little chance of being refined without a great deal of loss, for jewels? What jeweler in his right mind would trade for an ore that he has no means to refine without suffering substantial loss, if he even had the resources to refine it in the first place, which is extremely doubtful, not to mention that he certainly wasn't going to refine it anywhere close to St. Louis without sure risk of starting the next silver rush, which clearly never happened. Such a HUGE and timely trade itself would have certainly cancelled any chance of keeping the alleged party's secret a secret. So quite clearly the letters as simply a fabrication.

I'm talking about ore. That IS gold and silver, as opposed to peanut butter and jelly. The author is not clearly detailing pure gold and silver, he just says so many pounds of gold, and so many ponds of silver. That could mean ore just as well as pure, and since ore is what would be mined with primitive tools, it only makes sense.

When you take a good, open minded look at the links I have provided, you'll see the quality, and amounts, of gold a silver that were taken from mines in that area, WITHOUT MODERN EQUIPMENT.

Even if his ore was of an extremely high assay, say 50%, then all of the detailed weights in C2 would have to be doubled just so he could arrive at the amount of "gold & silver" he claims he has deposited

Which can also mean that only about half of the weight given is actual gold and silver.

On top of this, and has already been mentioned a couple of times now, how does one go about trading ore, an ore that has little chance of being refined without a great deal of loss, for jewels? What jeweler in his right mind would trade for an ore that he has no means to refine without suffering substantial loss, if he even had the resources to refine it in the first place, which is extremely doubtful, not to mention that he certainly wasn't going to refine it anywhere close to St. Louis without sure risk of starting the next silver rush, which clearly never happened. Such a HUGE and timely trade itself would have certainly cancelled any chance of keeping the alleged party's secret a secret. So quite clearly the letters as simply a fabrication.

Maybe someone who received enough ore to make it worth his trouble. That's the way business deals work. I agree, he wouldn't have made a deal to take a loss. Now, since the story says this trade was done to save transportation, it sounds like it was a huge amount traded. And who said he had to refine it in St. Louis? Remember, at that time steamboats had been coming into St. Louis for a few years, for trade: Steamboats first arrived in St. Louis in 1818, improving connections with New Orleans and eastern markets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis

The deposit that had the jewels was deposited in December 1821, so the trade in St Louis would have happened in 1821. By this time, steamboats had been coming into St Louis for 3 years, improving connections with New Orleans, and with eastern MARKETS.