O
Old Silver
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I found it documented. And I think you badly want it not to be there. Now, have you found it documented to NOT be there?
Mines, Mines, and More Mines.
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I found it documented. And I think you badly want it not to be there. Now, have you found it documented to NOT be there?
ECS
Banned
This supports Bigscoop on this legends of mines in that area pre 1817:Billions of dollars have been spent over the years in search of mineral wealth in the region. Thousands and thousands of people have trampled the territory to death over the years in search of this mineral wealth. Now just how many lucrative mining operations have you researched in the region who make the claim, "our mining operation is on the site of an old lost mining operation?" None. It's nearly always the same thing, "when gold/silver was discovered by John Doe in whatever year he discovered it." Not a single lucrative mining operation in the region laying the claim, "at the site of an old lost mining operation." Enough said.
Project MUSE - Trail of Gold and Silver
It also mentions the UTES, the native-American tribe of that region who did like the Anglo encroachment on their land.
Not the friendly Indians who helped the Beale Party mine gold and silver according to the 1885 Beale Papers.
ECS
Banned
These were the folks in 1885. I provided a link that mentions this on another thread.
CSA Lt Col Vincent A Witcher, 34th CSA Virginia Battalion, was one of the family members that objected.
Also, he knew F C Hutter and Max Guggenheimer.
ECS
Banned
So who were the friendly Indians that helped the Beale Party mine their land in 1817?
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Tonto. :P
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bigscoop
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Look, it's as simple as this, if someone wants to believe in all of this lost mine stuff then they'll find reasons to believe and to keep those hopes alive, even in the face of overwhelming documented evidence against such possibilities. Even today folks still continue to use "post era" materials in support of what they want to keep alive. This is exactly what this thread is addressing, the human desire and need to believe in such things and the distances they will go to keep those dreams alive. "1817-1821"...."in the region described in the Beale narrations"...."and despite all the documented resources that clearly debunk such possibilities." We are once again several post into this thread and still not a single documented case of a lucrative mining operation in the region prior to 1821 has been presented, and it never will be, and with good and historically sound reasons.
And that Ute opposition that ECS referenced, it didn't even exist this far north as there was no existing reasons for it to exist because there were no Spanish or white men in the region threatening their way of life like there had been further south. No lost Spanish mines, no lost French mines, no lost American mines. At the very best some "very occasional" stragglers but certainly no resident lucrative mining operations. If there had been the east would have certainly heard about them and we would have seen gold and silver rushes in the region a lot sooner then we did.
And that Ute opposition that ECS referenced, it didn't even exist this far north as there was no existing reasons for it to exist because there were no Spanish or white men in the region threatening their way of life like there had been further south. No lost Spanish mines, no lost French mines, no lost American mines. At the very best some "very occasional" stragglers but certainly no resident lucrative mining operations. If there had been the east would have certainly heard about them and we would have seen gold and silver rushes in the region a lot sooner then we did.
O
Old Silver
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Look, it's as simple as this, if someone wants to believe in all of this lost mine stuff then they'll find reasons to believe and to keep those hopes alive, even in the face of overwhelming documented evidence against such possibilities. Even today folks still continue to use "post era" materials in support of what they want to keep alive. This is exactly what this thread is addressing, the human desire and need to believe in such things and the distances they will go to keep those dreams alive. "1817-1821"...."in the region described in the Beale narrations"...."and despite all the documented resources that clearly debunk such possibilities." We are once again several post into this thread and still not a single documented case of a lucrative mining operation in the region prior to 1821 has been presented, and it never will be, and with good and historically sound reasons.
And that Ute opposition that ECS referenced, it didn't even exist this far north as there was no existing reasons for it to exist because there were no Spanish or white men in the region threatening their way of life like there had been further south. No lost Spanish mines, no lost French mines, no lost American mines. At the very best some "very occasional" stragglers but certainly no resident lucrative mining operations. If there had been the east would have certainly heard about them and we would have seen gold and silver rushes in the region a lot sooner then we did.
That's true of those who DON'T want to believe, even in the face of documented evidence, which I have shown. You have shown no evidence against James Cockrell and the mine of 1823. I have shown documented evidence of it. You have shown nothing in the way of evidence against any possibility I have talked about. Where is your proof? And now you go so far as to positively state that nothing will ever be found. I don't know how you can know such a thing.
From 1822 to 1859 was only 37 years. Not many people were adventurous enough to travel into hostile territory, especially with stories of massacres about. And yes, there were actual stories of massacres, outside the Beale story. A few were that adventurous, and in only 37 years mines were "discovered" by the mainstream.
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When the term "lost mine" is said... This is what I picture.
Not joking.
Not joking.
ECS
Banned
In 1827, William Clark(husband of Julia Hancock and later to her Kennerly cousin) names a town in Kentucky, Puducah, after a tribe he heard about out west, a tribe that the Chickasaw tribe of Kentucky says never existed.
The native -American tribe that dominated northern New Mexico, southern Colorado, and western Texas, were called by the Spanish, the PADOUCAS.
The Padoucas were a fierce hunter-warrior tribe that conducted warfare on other tribes and raided the Spanish settlements stealing horses, massacring the inhabitants, taking captives that were enslaved or cruelly tortured to death.
It is highly unlikely that this tribe would tolerate 30 Anglo-Americans hunting buffalo on their land in 1817, much less helping them mine gold and silver.
This tribe is better known as COMANCHEE.
franklin
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Yes but if they raided Spanish settlements---------they would know where the Spanish stored their gold.
ECS
Banned
The Spanish territorial records contain countless accounts concerning the hostile encounters with the PADOUCAS (Comanchee).
ECS
Banned
James Cockrell did NOT mine silver in 1823, but claimed to have found a silver streak in rock in the Rocky Mountains.
He then traveled to Missouri and recruited men to mine his discovery, but when returning to the Rockies, never again found that location.
THERE WAS NEVER A JAMES COCKRELL SILVER MINE.
http://www.justtrails.com/great-adventures/the-big-guy-saves-day/
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bigscoop
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Years ago I use to think that a mine was possible but as the years continued to pass and the evidence against such claims continued to pile up it finally became apparent that the letters and the story about the grand adventure were just another treasure tale with no possible reality.
Treasure stories abound "everywhere" and they come in all manner of creative disguise.
Treasure stories abound "everywhere" and they come in all manner of creative disguise.
O
Old Silver
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It's your use of the word "possible" that you really should reconsider. You don't have to believe in the treasure to say it's possible. To say it's not possible is just wrong.
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