Lue Map

[PatrickD]

Hi Springfield,

Ok, thanks for challenging the information. Counter viewpoints are always welcome. So, back to the symbols you are talking about. Can you posts some photos? I am intrigued. (And, no, I don't have access to world class artisans.)

Patrick

 

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[PatrickD]

Amy,

I have a couple thousand pages on LUE related information. I can sort through some of it if you need anything.

Here are a couple magazine articles worth reading. One is a 1970 article from True Treasure magazine. Great theory, again, but this one doesn't account for declination. Also has an article from 1991 Treasure magazine.

View attachment Magazines.pdf

This theory is off as well. It is always difficult to sift through theory for reality. I suppose it is easier to use imagination than to research historical facts.

I also have a bunch of letters from KvM. I can try to find the one referencing his LUE recovery at Black Lake. It is kind of cool reading these old hand written letters.

Patrick

 

[Springfield]

Hi Springfield,

Ok, thanks for challenging the information. Counter viewpoints are always welcome. So, back to the symbols you are talking about. Can you posts some photos? I am intrigued. (And, no, I don't have access to world class artisans.)

Patrick

Yes, I can post photos of seemingly old ('Pre-Columbian', 'Spanish', etc) carvings that I believe are less than 100 years old. I can't prove it conclusively, of course, because there is not yet a technical petroglyph dating method available that is acceptable to all or most researchers. Most 'dating' is 'cultural association', without regard to modern chicanery. Give me some time to get to my real computer - this Nexus 7 tablet has its limitations.

 

[lastleg]

When I think of the line "the most interesting man in the world" I can't help but think of KVM, a man
who lived life to the fullest. Whether he found all that is laid to him is immaterial, he was able to
captivate the imagination of his readers and spur them to greater heights. not only in exploration but
more so in moral manliness.

I think of the trails to timberline the quest he inspired in ordinary men like myself and say "Thanks
old pal." Then again his best tip was 'don't be a sucker'. Beware the false will of the wisps who lie on
feather beds with an outstretched arm pointing at clouds.

 

[Springfield]

Although others disagree, IMO the following petroglyphs are all less than 100 years old. Each of these is a primary clue in treasure legends and a significant node in a geometrical pattern along with other carvings and landmarks.


"Phoenician"


"Knights Templar"


"Spanish"


Here is one that really is old, possibly 16th century

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Springfeild

I for one are not inclined to disagree with you. I think there is a danger of making too many assumptions from petroglyphs? Not every petroglyphs is a treasure marker either. While determine the age of such markers can be difficult. There is also the added problem of 20th people adding to a historic marker either in a senseless act of vandalism or more malicious motives. Malicious motive I mean to promote their own quasi religious agenda or ideology or simple pranksters with no purpose what so ever.

The picture of the Maltese cross is interesting but in what context was it placed there? And that's the problem knowing the context? Was it placed there by a bored teenagers? Or a quasi religious fanatic wanting to promote their agenda? Or perhaps if was just trail marker? Or even an actual marker in the context of buried treasure? Ultimately we just do not know? And that's the problem as many of these markers are open for multiple interpretation.

Here is some historic Spanish and early pioneer markers below. John DE Ornate 1605



This one John Diego Vargas in 1692



This one dated 1737



Others too scratched there names right up through the 20th century. Until the site was protected.

Amy

 

[doc-d]

Amy, excellent points on petroglyphs…….

 

[PatrickD]

I also agree about the petroglyphs. Not all are related to treasure.

But, Look up the symbols in any Spanish Symbol treasure reference.

For example, how do the reference books interpret these two symbols alone?





What a great hobby we have. And, I really want to express my appreciation for you all as this is a fun dialogue to have.

Patrick

 

[Springfield]

Hello Springfeild

I for one are not inclined to disagree with you. I think there is a danger of making too many assumptions from petroglyphs? Not every petroglyphs is a treasure marker either. While determine the age of such markers can be difficult. There is also the added problem of 20th people adding to a historic marker either in a senseless act of vandalism or more malicious motives. Malicious motive I mean to promote their own quasi religious agenda or ideology or simple pranksters with no purpose what so ever.

The picture of the Maltese cross is interesting but in what context was it placed there? And that's the problem knowing the context? Was it placed there by a bored teenagers? Or a quasi religious fanatic wanting to promote their agenda? Or perhaps if was just trail marker? Or even an actual marker in the context of buried treasure? Ultimately we just do not know? And that's the problem as many of these markers are open for multiple interpretation. ...

Amy

Sometimes a rather bold statement can be hidden in plain sight. Below is an interesting petroglyph presumably pecked by an artistic Mimbreno at at site peppered with many quite interesting carvings. It's a popular hiking destination for recreationists, photographers and enthusiastic historians near Silver City, NM. Why ... it's a dragonfly ... and a human foot ... cool, no? Well, yes and no. Considering where this canyon leads, and the exact azimuth towards which the dragonfly is pointing, another explanation (corroborated by more quite odd nearby symbols) is that the carving actually has two meanings, depending upon your point of view: 1) a dragonfly and foot for those who assume it's 'Indian'; and 2) a lightly disguised Cross of Lorraine for those who are looking for confirmation of the route they are on.

 

[Crow]

Some interesting posts here Do please continue.

Crow

 

[Crow]

I also agree about the petroglyphs. Not all are related to treasure.

But, Look up the symbols in any Spanish Symbol treasure reference.

For example, how do the reference books interpret these two symbols alone?

View attachment 1005369

View attachment 1005370

What a great hobby we have. And, I really want to express my appreciation for you all as this is a fun dialogue to have.

Patrick

Hello Patrick

Is your site near ( A few miles as the crow flies) the cripple creek area?

Crow

 

[PatrickD]

Hi Crow,

No, its about 60 miles west of Trinidad in the Sangre de Christo mountains.

Patrick

 

[Crow]

Hello Patrick

I was thinking about another story relating to cripple creek. Which was perhaps connected to the labor war around 1906. I thought there might of been a connection with that story and your site. But the distance and direction does not fit.

Crow

 

[PatrickD]

That may be. But, this site found is along the 105 degree where most of the other sites were located vertically in that part of Colorado and New Mexico.

 

[Crow]

That may be. But, this site found is along the 105 degree where most of the other sites were located vertically in that part of Colorado and New Mexico.

I cannot say I am up to speed as such with this topic. I am not quite sure to make of this treasure legend. There seems to be a lot of assumptions of treasure. Some claim Nazi connection, other claims Spanish or Jesuit or perhaps connected to 1906 labour wars? I am not any clearer from when I started. Perhaps like with all treasure legends just when you think you got it figgured. Like a pole dancer it slaps you in face.

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Pole dancer, slap in the face hmmmm Crow

Don Jose de la Mancha el innocente

 

[doc-d]

Crow, it seems we need more info on the pole dancer/slap in the face…..

 

[PatrickD]

I cannot say I am up to speed as such with this topic. I am not quite sure to make of this treasure legend. There seems to be a lot of assumptions of treasure. Some claim Nazi connection, other claims Spanish or Jesuit or perhaps connected to 1906 labour wars? I am not any clearer from when I started. Perhaps like with all treasure legends just when you think you got it figgured. Like a pole dancer it slaps you in face.

Crow

Hi Crow,

I am not sure about that pole slapping thing. I just hope there aren't any pictures.

Seriously, this one is a basic treasure that has been over complicated. It is easily traceable in history.

Here is the gist of it. The Spaniards mined precious metals in the US in the mid/late 1500s. They had to store the smelted items (bars, crosses, etc.) somewhere until they had enough to justify a full boat load going back to Spain. Due to a variety of incidents including Indian uprisings, slave revolts, and being run out after the incident with the French, these cache sites were quickly sealed and marked with the intent to return. The map shows the latitude and pattern where the cache sites were. Unfortunately, the return recovery never occurred. Several have already been recovered. Some are still out there.

The map actually makes more sense once one gains the skills to utilize a sextant for celestial navigation. Once in the area, landmarks trail signs lead to the locations. If one has 'eyes to see' they can follow the signs. Miss one, and well, off course. Oh, and don't forget to account for declination.

I have some hand written letters by Karl Von Mueller (Dean Miller) and he talks about making a recovery of Spanish silver bars from the LUE location recovery at Black Lake. Karl first saw the map when Hardrock Hammond brought him a copy of 'Spanish Trail of Gold' written by Robert O. Burch in 1935. (Its a 36 page self-published document that was not filed with the Library of Congress.) He quickly redrew the map and later published it in his TH Manual #7.

Note that the map has some encryption that requires the IAYAYAM key to filter. You can break the map without the cypher though. Also, as with many Spanish maps of the time, North is to the right instead of the top as with current ones.

Patrick

 

[Crow]

Hello Patrick

The problem I have with the "105 degree" is it did not technically exist until an international agreement based on the longitude of Greenwich mean time. In fact I think the international agreement was brokered in New York in 1884. Before that each country adopted there own times zones for longitude. Spanish was long gone from the United States before this 105 longitude existed.

So I cannot see the relevance of these alluded Spanish makers being connected with actual 105 degree longitude. Another Spanish longitude perhaps? But To what? Border markers?

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is a Spanish Map 1625

As you can see for yourself

They used different Longitude.



Crow