Lue Map

[markmar]

In some respects looking at this alleged Map. It does seem to give a 1930's art deco type style to it?

Perhaps that betrays 20th century origins?

Markmar you have made some interesting observations on the symbolism so far. Have you done any in depth research on the origins of the document?

Thanking you in advance.

Corp

I believe in the Nazi version .

 

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[markmar]

Interesting ... why do you say this?

Because the location which I described , is near the Mexican border .

 

[Jeanne]

Here's one from Google Maps. I really think we need to call Indiana Jones in on this one.

 

[Jeanne]

Oops, I mean Google Images,

 

[markmar]

Here's one from Google Maps. I really think we need to call Indiana Jones in on this one.

View attachment 854820

This map is the same with the map which I posted before . And , I agree , Indiana Jones was the best treasure hunter .

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Markmar

As for as I can see there is no credible evidence of and Nazi had the capacity to engage in such an operation. while there was some small support for the Bund an American offshoot of the nazi party it never had the capacity to generate funds at the inferred level as the alleged Lue map. the Nazi party came to power in 1933, it was more concerned within consolidating power in Europe and with in its own country. As for any fascist group raising funds for nazi party? United states in the decade of the 1930's was the last place to raise any funds as the untied states was reeling in the worst economic depression of its history.

As for any Germany funds coming from Mexico I suspect highly unlikely at least in the depression years. Americas relationship with Mexico was a mixed one. Studies have provided conflicting numbers for how many people were “repatriated” during the Great Depression. The State of California passed an "Apology Act" that estimated 2 million people were forced to relocate to Mexico and an estimated 1.2 million were US citizens. Sure these events did not help US Mexican relations but prior to the 1930s Mexico was racked by civil war and was only recovering until hit by the great depression in the mid 1930s. Opinions was mixed in Mexico. But the government looked to the united states despite efforts by Germany to influence Mexico. By 1940 even the most hard line anti American in Mexico was turning to support the united states. By 1942 Mexico had declared war on Germany.

So if there was any nazi connection via Mexico there there would be slim if improbable one.

So where does that leave us. A mysterious document of uncertain origin with one million and one possible interpretations. That is why I find the Lue so interesting.

Corp

 

[markmar]

Corp

The Nazi didn't care about US and Mexico relation . They have had money and power prior 1942 , and their Inteligence Service have had everywhere " friends " . Maybe their plans were derailed by a double agent . FBI and CIA knew more about Lue map origin , and for this they publiched the map in newspapers to prompt the people to solve the map . If the map was only a legend with an uncertain origin , I don't see the reason to did this the US gov.
I agree with you how the Lue map looks mysterious and indecipherable , and leaves a feeling of challenge which prompt everyone to give his own interpretation , but the truth is in a " Top secret " file .

 

[Springfield]

Corp

The Nazi didn't care about US and Mexico relation . They have had money and power prior 1942 , and their Inteligence Service have had everywhere " friends " . Maybe their plans were derailed by a double agent . FBI and CIA knew more about Lue map origin , and for this they publiched the map in newspapers to prompt the people to solve the map . If the map was only a legend with an uncertain origin , I don't see the reason to did this the US gov.
I agree with you how the Lue map looks mysterious and indecipherable , and leaves a feeling of challenge which prompt everyone to give his own interpretation , but the truth is in a " Top secret " file .

I'm in Corp's camp, generally: "A mysterious document of uncertain origin with one million and one possible interpretations".

Markmar, you seem to have strong opinions about the LUE. Let's find out. Please answer the following questions:
1) What is the LUE? Cache? Mine? Something else?
2) When was the LUE hidden?
3) Who was responsible for hiding it and providing the map?
4) Why is the map in the public domain?
5) Why hasn't the LUE been recovered? If it has been - when?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

 

[markmar]

I'm in Corp's camp, generally: "A mysterious document of uncertain origin with one million and one possible interpretations".

Markmar, you seem to have strong opinions about the LUE. Let's find out. Please answer the following questions:
1) What is the LUE? Cache? Mine? Something else?
2) When was the LUE hidden?
3) Who was responsible for hiding it and providing the map?
4) Why is the map in the public domain?
5) Why hasn't the LUE been recovered? If it has been - when?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Interesting questions . I wrote about Gestapo and CIA , and you adopted an agent practice . But , never mind , I will try to write my opinion .

1) Lue is a cache .
2) Was hidden in 1941
3) To this question can answer a CIA agent .
4) To this question I have answered in my previous post .
5) Lue did not been recovered because nobody was able to decrypt the map .

IMO , I am a treasure finder , and I like to decrypt maps for hobby .You remember when I wrote how I share the cards ? I wrote then :

" Springfield

In this game I share the cards , and sometimes I play with the cards open . I give an opportunity to anybody to make a straight flush or to keep a measly pair . But always I keep an ace in my sleeve .

Marius "

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Jeanne:

That's a copy from Karl von Mueller's Treasure Hunter's Manual #7. To be more precise, it is a copy of a copy because KvonM's copyright symbol hyas been cut off.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Springfield]

....
1) Lue is a cache .
2) Was hidden in 1941
3) To this question can answer a CIA agent .
4) To this question I have answered in my previous post .
5) Lue did not been recovered because nobody was able to decrypt the map .
....

Thanks for your answers.

Regarding #5, I find it very difficult to accept that a gold cache as large as the LUE is alleged to be is reliant on an enigmatic map for recovery by its owners. Any group capable enough to control this much gold also has the means of providing multi-layers of security for the cache and a straightforward knowledge of its location. This LUE phenomenon is similar to the Peralta Stones scenario - modern, indecipherable, cartoonish maps allegedly leading to vast fortunes are somehow revealed to the public. It doesn't make sense. The public, of course, has been powerless to solve the puzzles.

It's easier for me to accept that the whole LUE thing was a KvM hoax, as has been claimed by associates of his after his death. That may or may not be true. The important question for me would be: if the LUE exists, why is it still hidden?

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Thanks for quick reply.

In regards to #3 Why would a CIA agent be involved investigating this alleged plot when it was not under their area of jurisdiction?

The CIA did not exist until 1947 after it predecessor OSS ( OFFICE OF STRATEGIC SERVICES ) Disbanded after WW2. Well after the Nazi party had been destroyed. Indeed The CIA inherited the files of its predecessor the OSS, However the OSS was concerned with subversion of Europe not with the internal security of the United States. All internal espionage operations and investigations was handled by the FBI.They had SIS Special Intelligence Service. Documents of their activities are in what is Termed the German File.

Corp

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Springfield:

Just curious - which of KvonM's "associates" have claimed the LUE was a hoax?

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

PS: If there is a map of whatever form or kind to a treasure, that does not preclude the existence of other sets of directions, in similar or different format.

 

[Springfield]

Springfield:

Just curious - which of KvonM's "associates" have claimed the LUE was a hoax?

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

PS: If there is a map of whatever form or kind to a treasure, that does not preclude the existence of other sets of directions, in similar or different format.

OB,
I'm in Minnesota this week on family business and don't have access to my archived email. I'll pm you next week when I'm home again.

Re PS: yes, I agree. The 'LUE map' may well be an unsolvable red herring designed to deceive.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Springfield:

Thank you! I look forward to reading it.

I do not think the LUE is "designed to deceive." Perhaps it is a way for those in the know to remember.

Perhaps there was a separate key - just as one might send a Social Security Number in two emails instead of one.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Does this alleged IAYATAM Key have any relevance to the Lue or just another riddle? Anagram of some sort like Nelots?

Corp

 

[Old Bookaroo]

CI:

Good question! Perhaps the LUE map was designed to be "multi-lingual?" KvonM wrote that Key was part of the LUE puzzle.

I have not yet read enough evidence to link the German Nazis to either the LUE or to the famous "Four Corners / Gold Act" cache. Those theories seem grafted on to me. I am particularly skeptical of the alleged connection in the later case.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

PS: "Nelots" is a bit easier to understand. One of Ed Bartholomew's best! I just put several of his classic treasure books up for auction on eBay.

 

[markmar]

Thanks for your answers.

Regarding #5, I find it very difficult to accept that a gold cache as large as the LUE is alleged to be is reliant on an enigmatic map for recovery by its owners. Any group capable enough to control this much gold also has the means of providing multi-layers of security for the cache and a straightforward knowledge of its location. This LUE phenomenon is similar to the Peralta Stones scenario - modern, indecipherable, cartoonish maps allegedly leading to vast fortunes are somehow revealed to the public. It doesn't make sense. The public, of course, has been powerless to solve the puzzles.

It's easier for me to accept that the whole LUE thing was a KvM hoax, as has been claimed by associates of his after his death. That may or may not be true. The important question for me would be: if the LUE exists, why is it still hidden?

The backround of Lue map may has many scenarios and is very difficult to guess the correct . Sometimes the last witness " goes " with ironic way and left back only a map . This is the strategy with the big treasures : to the end must to remain only one . How many keep the codes of the nuclear missiles ? Only one . What happened if the ONE who hide a treasure and make a map are die without a chance to explain the map to the " Big Boss " ? The map become indecipherable .
This happened with all the maps , include stone tablets and others .
The easy way is to admit how all the maps are a hoax . A map don't become a hoax , because nobody can not to solve the map and don't find the treasure , mine , etc. . I believe how don't exist a time limit to proclaim a map , hoax . Hoax is only when the author declare this .
The Lue map is not very hard to decrypt it , enough to find the location .

 

[markmar]

OB

There is not any connection between Lue and Four Corners / Mexican cache . Are two different stories with different incentives , in different places .

 

[Springfield]

OB,
I'm in Minnesota this week on family business and don't have access to my archived email. I'll pm you next week when I'm home again.

Re PS: yes, I agree. The 'LUE map' may well be an unsolvable red herring designed to deceive.

Old Bookaroo,
Not having found what I promised you in my old emails, I am now forced to search my paper files (remember paper?) for the correspondence. Back in the '90's, I paper-mailed a sketch I made of a petroglyph panel to a certain 'DC', a TH magazine writer and heavy KGC-er at the time. I was told by reliable sources he was a person 'in the know'. He sent a letter back with the information I asked for and his phone number. I thought I had emails from him too, but I haven't located them. Anyway - to cut to the chase - I spoke with 'DC' a couple times and he claimed to know KvM well and said the entire vM family was aware that the 'LUE Map' was an invention, even though it was thought to contain 'useful information' of a general nature. I was very surprised when 'DC' said KvM chuckled when he told him that most TH-ers were so gullible as to believe any wild tale, especially one he told. I remember writing this on the back of 'DC's letter to me. If I find it, I'll scan it for you.

Another well-known 'Brand name' TH-er acquaintance, 'J', told me a similar account some years later. I don't know if the two stories are cross-pollinated - maybe.

Bottom line: a couple experienced guys who highly respected KvM also claim he was less than forthcoming with some of what he published and enjoyed a practical joke. My opinion? I'm ambivalent. I know I'm glad to have some of his publications.

I haven't found the phone notes I was looking for yet, but I did run across the 'annotated LUE map' (below). Supposedly, the additional symbols in the margins are 'very important'. Note also some other subtle changes in the graphics. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't document the map's source. I guess if I was a 'LUE guy', I'd be a better archivist, but I always had other things on my plate. I still don't even know what the LUE is supposed to be.