Lue Map

I've already posted many times "why" I joined TNET and post on this thread: I got tired of reading INSANE postings about Spanish conquistadors, Jesuits, Franciscans - the KGC - WHOEVER - caching HOARDS of gold in the U.S. - especially by those who haven't figured out the solution to the waybill. And that includes KARL VON MUELLER - whom never found ONE SPECK OF THE LUE.

I'm doing my BEST with links to ACTUAL history - TRYING to show you the WAYBILL: which is an EXPLICIT transport bill of lading, leads to ONE LOCATION.

IN ADDITION - I'm TRYING MY BEST to explain the REALITY in the ACTUAL logistics necessary in order to "recover" a large cache. It seems to ME - based on hundreds of posts on TNET - that MOST people are DELUSIONAL in thinking they're going to walk onto someones PRIVATE property and "swing" a TOY METAL detector and a spade, dig a foot deep and RUN OFF with "Sudden Wealth" (inference to Karl Von Mueller INTENDED) - like that DUMB ASS Tom Hilton whom believed KvM's BULLSHIT!

The REALITY IS well known Industrialists and bankers - including Henry Ford, Prescott Bush ("41's" father and "W"s grandfather), the Rockefellers and bankers at JP Morgan, Brown Brothers Harriman; founded by railroad titan EA Harriman and run by his son Averrill Harriman - funded Hitler's rise and the Third Reich and were paid in GOLD BULLION since the Reich's Mark was WORTHLESS after the Weimar Republic collapse which led to Hitler's "rise".

I don't think those on this thread UNDERSTAND the risk they faced in being prosecuted for "Trading With the Enemy" - that's why the "operation" was so clandestine.

In addition - anyone who knows history is aware of Nazi training camps in the U.S. like Camp Nordland.

Camp Nordland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Nordland

Was the ranch another Camp Nordland, located in the American Southwest? I won't be certain until I purchase the property and unearth 25 TONS OF GOLD BULLION

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Spyro said:
I've already posted many times "why" I joined TNET and post on this thread: I got tired of reading INSANE postings about Spanish conquistadors, Jesuits, Franciscans - WHOEVER - caching HOARDS of gold in the U.S. - especially by those who haven't figured out the solution to the waybill. And that includes KARL VON MUELLER - whom never found ONE SPECK OF THE LUE.

I'm doing my BEST with links to ACTUAL history - TRYING to show you the WAYBILL: which is an EXPLICIT transport bill of lading, leads to ONE LOCATION.

IN ADDITION - I'm TRYING MY BEST to explain the REALITY in the ACTUAL logistics necessary in order to "recover" a large cache. It seems to ME - based on hundreds of posts on TNET - that MOST people are DELUSIONAL in thinking they're going to walk onto someones PRIVATE property and "swing" a TOY METAL detector and a spade, dig a foot deep and RUN OFF with "Sudden Wealth" (inference to Karl Von Mueller INTENDED) - like that DUMB ASS Tom Hilton whom believed KvM's BULLSHIT!

The REALITY IS well known Industrialists and bankers - including Henry Ford, Prescott Bush ("41's" father and "W"s grandfather), the Rockefellers and bankers at JP Morgan, Brown Brothers Harriman; founded by railroad titan EA Harriman and run by his son Averrill Harriman - funded Hitler's rise and the Third Reich and were paid in GOLD BULLION since the Reich's Mark was WORTHLESS after the Weimar Republic collapse which led to Hitler's "rise".

I don't think those on this thread UNDERSTAND the risk they faced in being prosecuted for "Trading With the Enemy" - that's why the "operation" was so clandestine.

In addition - anyone who knows history is aware of Nazi training camps in the U.S. like Camp Nordland.

Camp Nordland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Nordland

Was the ranch another Camp Nordland, located in the American Southwest? I won't be certain until I purchase the property and unearth 25 TONS OF GOLD BULLION

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Why do you care what TNet readers believe about treasure tales or world history? Even if you convince a bunch of folks that you're right about your theories, it doesn't make them any truer.

As mentioned earlier, if you can talk a second $1 million investor into buying the dirt and take a 1/3 interest in the project/property, you can't lose anything more than your technical expenses. Plus, if there's no gold, you'll still own part of a $2 million ranch. Even if it's a German Panzer buried out there, that too would be a nice prize.
 

Why do I care what TNET posters think? I'm just trying to help the "mentally ill" who are delusional.

Per purchasing the property - your point is well taken. But .. it's harder to convince a person that it's there .. than you think.

Heck - I can't even convince waybill researchers who've stared at it for 20 years that it's in ONE location!

You've convinced me ONCE AND FOR ALL - no MORE posting on this thread! You'll have to wait for the MOVIE!
 

Spyro said:
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I've often wondered where Hilton got the idea that the LUE was 40 acres of gold...it's certainly not an idea promoted by Karl von Mueller or supported in anything he wrote about the LUE. This alone makes me suspect his efforts at searching and his motives for writing about it.

Hilton made a lot of claims but ultimately his magnum opus on the LUE demonstrated a glaring reality that anyone who read the article quickly picked up on. He was quick to write about a solution...but had no idea himself how that solution was derived, much less whether or not it was accurate. The fact that he went to Black Lake, the same place people have always claimed Karl made his recovery, seems rather interesting. One could surmise a number of things from this:

1) Hilton was given information to a site that had already been cleaned out. (This seems unlikely because evidence would be pretty easy to spot at that point. All signs point to Karl making his Black Lake recovery within the decade preceding Hilton's article)
2) Hilton was put in the general neighborhood of the treasure, with Karl and other's feeling confident he would never be able to narrow down his search filed and make a recovery.
3) Karl deliberately misled Hilton and set him on a wild goose chase (this would be particularly so if it was suspected Hilton was putting together material for an article and was not forthcoming with this information).

Karl makes a number of cryptic remarks in the NPG about critics who were only critics after they discovered individuals who worked on the LUE simply wouldn't hand over their information.

I think this whole situation was much more personal than the available information would indicate. A glance at the available materials suggests Karl had a falling out with John Latham, who owned Treasure World and True Treasure (later to be combined as Lost Treasure) leading John to run the article by Hilton. It seems also that Fred Dorrick may have been in this camp, as he had previously written for the NPG but later published a book where he called the LUE a fraud.

It's also worth noting that Hilton implies in this article that the LUE is a single cache site, Karl von Mueller had been writing for some time at the time Hilton published his article, that the LUE was likely cached in anywhere from 7 spots to upwards of 20 or so.

Interesting too is that Hilton didn't stick around long as a treasure writer. Besides a few articles in True Treasure/Treasure World, he had a number of small pieces in the National Treasure Hunter's League magazine. Interesting, one of his articles concerns a treasure in northern New Mexico and he still speaks frequently in this article of the 105 degree latitude line. It's a very specific bit of information that he does not attribute to the LUE, but certainly implies he had not (in my mind) given up all hope on making a recovery.
 

Here's what I "think" Randy: Tom Hilton pestered KvM to divulge more details of the meeting, when he and Hard Rock Hammond were able to copy the waybill. I "think" KvM and Hard Rock asked the person who allowed them to copy it, for any details they were told about it.

Remember - KvM and Hard Rock had many connections to those in the aviation and aeronautic industry. I believe the person told KvM and Hard Rock that one of the details they were told was, "the landing strip was a 40 acre pasture on a property that was a 'Natural Fort Knox".

I speculate that the person whom transported it was paid in gold for his silence, and that's why he only told his wife about it and may have told her only a few details; and died an untimely death.

I "masked" the attached snapshot to hide details, but shows the pastures' area dimensions: 40 acres.

In ADDITION - the length of the pasture shown is .63 miles - as shown on the "Arrowhead" pointing North on the Waybill: total length is 6 with 3 "notches" or "point 63 miles". The "grade" of the pasture rises 53 feet, as shown by the number of "steps" and the accompanied downward line angle slope on the Waybill.

In other words - CRITICAL components for a pilot to know which describe the airstrip on which to land to deliver cache and crew.

With that SAID - I'll no long post on this thread because you've all hurt my "FEEEELINGS".

Just know this to be TRUE - KARL VON MUELLER or WHATEVER his name was .. NEVER figured out the waybill nor "recovered" one SPECK of the LUE.

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Spyro, what would you do if years from now you turn on your TV and see the farmer on the news.. demonstrating how HE found tons of buried gold bullion with his hand-held "TOY" metal detector ?? ?

AND he says: "I couldn't have done it without the help of Karl Von Mueller and his treasure hunting books !"
 

It'll NEVER happen. Why? The underground "storage units" are 53 feet deep; built into the properties slope - count the steps. The smaller caches locations are "waypoints" to the "storage unit" doors - buried 5.3 feet deep.

Beyond that - there's a lot of mineralization on the property and the entire area. Toy metal detectors will NEVER even find the small caches.

As I said - I figured out the location strictly using the waybill FIRST - then verified the cache locations on the property using "21st Century" technology. You're describing the exact OPPOSITE.
 

Perhaps you haven't "followed" the thread Rebel - though I see your "Likes". The "logistics" needed to rob a bank would be easier.

Here's a hypothetical: If I told you the location and I told you where the small caches were located; small as in 200 to 400 ounces each - totaling approximately 2200 ounces - how would YOU go about "getting it"?

Would you "snag" one cache then RUN, leaving 25 tons behind? Knowing "full well" you trespassed and stole someone else's property - like ROBBING A BANK or STEALING a CAR?

Also - "what if" the "recovered" items have more numismatic or historical value?

In other words - I'd be interested in hearing suggestions from all the "keyboard" treasure hunters on this thread - who probably swing a toy metal detector in their local park on a weekend afternoon thinking they're going to find "Sudden Wealth" (inference to KvM INTENDED) but only find TRINKETS and TRASH - and an occasional penny, dime or quarter: which I call "TRASH HUNTERS" (hehehehe)

Lastly - imagine "what" was going through that DUMB ASS Tom Hilton's mind - thinking he'd find a multi-ton HOARD - swinging a toy metal detector in the middle of the night around Black Lake. What did he think he was going to do? Stuff tons of gold in his back pocket and RUN?

In other words - he was a FOOL whom believed a BULLSHITTER: KvM

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YOU have become OFFENSIVE, in YOUR "postings"; MANY PUT-DOWNS. I don't even have an Metal Detector, DON'T need one. As I said; YOU can PROBALY figure a way to "get it"!
 

What's "OFFENSIVE" about asking a hypothetical question? Or were you OFFENDED that I called KvM a BULLSHITTER and Tom Hilton a FOOL for believing his BS?

If you needed an extra million to buy the property - what would YOU do to get it? Remember - I told the property owner I believed there might be "valuable historical artifacts" on his property - not gold.

Next: if you knew you could quickly recover 200 to 600 ounces in ONE NIGHT - would you do it and risk getting caught? That's a quick $250,000 to $700,000 worth in gold - "recovered" within a few hours.

Could you "live with yourself" knowing you stole someone else's property or would your CONSCIENCE "eat you alive"? Would YOUR WIFE allow you to commit such a crime?

It's an OPEN hypothetical for anyone following this thread, though it seems many who post haven't "thought it through", especially the "logistics", even if the property is purchased and 25 to 100 tons are "recovered".

What do you do with it? Hide it? Keep it where it is and liquidate slowly?

Think it "THROUGH".
 

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Randy - I used Google Earth Pro - which has an area mapping function. I used the yellow boundary to identify the "likely" area Tom Hilton searched at NIGHT, for WEEKS with his toy metal detector believing the "40 acres of gold" was buried one foot deep (hehehehehe). He may have searched beyond that boundary, in the hills around Black Lake as described in his article.

Since you read his article - you'll note he scanned that area at night.

Here's another simple deduction: KvM used his "1st generation", 1960's toy metal detector to hunt along the wagon train ruts dating back to the 1850's, as described by Hilton. Which quickly led me to believe KvM might have found some "interesting" items - like old coins - but weren't attributed to the LUE.

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For all you "keyboard Treasure Hunters" - here's another "angle" I researched and posted about long ago.

The Camp Bird gold mine discovery was made by Tom Walsh in the 1890's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Bird_Mine - the gold ore was railed from Ouray via the Denver & Rio Grand railway to Durango for refining. Fellin Brothers trucked the gold ore from the Camp Bird mine to the Denver & Rio Grand loading site; see snapshot.

I speculated that Tom Walsh "may have" used the gold tailings to landfill the 40 acres I've shown in previous snapshots; which would account for KvM telling Tom Hilton the LUE was "40 acres of gold buried one foot below the surface"

Did Tom Walsh or Camp Bird mining company use the property to "DEPOSIT" some of his refined and unrefined gold; and hid it there to avoid confiscation by FDR and the Gold Act? Initially, I speculated that Walsh / Camp Bird mining company purchased a few rail cars from Denver & Rio Grand, and buried them on the property in which to cache the refined gold.

LLORO URACCA ENTERRARI = "Enter gold train in Curare tree corral". I LOVE to play Scrabble!

I won't know for certain - until I raise an extra million to buy the property.

If you care - here's a download link to the book written by Tom Walsh's daughter, "Father Struck It Rich", which describes the level of WEALTH Tom Walsh enjoyed back then; in which I found a few interesting "clues".

https://archive.org/details/fatherstruckitri002505mbp

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Spyro said:
What's "OFFENSIVE" about asking a hypothetical question? Or were you OFFENDED that I called KvM a BULLSHITTER and Tom Hilton a FOOL for believing his BS?

If you needed an extra million to buy the property - what would YOU do to get it? Remember - I told the property owner I believed there might be "valuable historical artifacts" on his property - not gold.

Next: if you knew you could quickly recover 200 to 600 ounces in ONE NIGHT - would you do it and risk getting caught? That's a quick $250,000 to $700,000 worth in gold - "recovered" within a few hours.

Could you "live with yourself" knowing you stole someone else's property or would your CONSCIENCE "eat you alive"? Would YOUR WIFE allow you to commit such a crime?

It's an OPEN hypothetical for anyone following this thread, though it seems many who post haven't "thought it through", especially the "logistics", even if the property is purchased and 25 to 100 tons are "recovered".

What do you do with it? Hide it? Keep it where it is and liquidate slowly?

Think it "THROUGH".
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IF the gold exists where you hope it does (big, big if), then it doesn't matter how much you recover or what chicanery you use to get it. It legally belongs to whoever put it there or his heirs. You may disagree, but it's the lawyers and a judge who would decide.

You've already lied by omission to the current landowner about what you think is in his pasture, so buying the property likely won't clear your conscience with him - it just makes it easier for you to rationalize your actions and easier for you to recover the loot. What difference does it make if you sneak in and grab one of the alleged smaller caches while the rancher is snoozing? Isn't $250k-700k enough for you? If not, do it multiple times. The landowner has no more right to the gold than you do in the bigger picture, so why does it matter? It sounds to me like you simply haven't got the courage or skill to pull off a nighttime raid.

This has nothing to do with your conscience, it has to do with you not getting caught.
 

It ALSO "has to do" with MY WIFE LETTING ME COMMIT the HEIST! The property is more than 1000 miles from me - where the HELL am I going to tell her I'm "going" and where the HELL I've been for 4 days?

"Hi HONEY - I'm HOME!"
"WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN THE LAST 4 DAYS - I CALLED THE COPS TO FILE A MISSING PERSONS REPORT - you DUMB ASS"
"No PROBLEM HONEY - LOOK! I did a quick NIGHT RAID on the property and LOOTED 800 ounces of gold in ONE NIGHT and HIGH TAILED MY ASS BACK HERE! We've struck "SUDDEN WEALTH" - we're RICH!"
"YOU DUMB ASS - I TOLD YOU TO FORGET ABOUT THAT DAMN GOLD! I'm CALLIN' the COPS!"

Heck - it would be easier to "hatch a plan" to rob the local bank, without my wife knowing about it!

In other words Sdcfia - your post tell me YOU'RE NOT MARRIED!

Besides - I researched the State laws in which the property is located: I OWN THE LOOT if I OWN the property.
 

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I don’t know any keyboard treasure hunters who are going to cough up a million bucks, for anything. There are corporations who have funded treasure hunts, in the past, why don’t you approach them? I’ve enjoyed reading about your evidence and historical information.
 

Trust me - I have "friends" who have several MILLION in spare change sitting in a Charles Schwab cash account not making very much money - who are interested in the "project" and other friends who manage multi-BILLION dollar hedge funds.

However - there are LEGAL "reasons" they've expressed for being HESITANT.

And I'll "leave it at that"

My OTHER "angle" was to contact those in the State Department who were involved with researching and allocating Nazi remunerations to Holocaust victims back in the 90's - but learned they're DEAD!

"William Z. Slany, historian who exposed Nazi theft of Jewish property, dies at 84"
https://tinyurl.com/y85gs936

I've also considered contacting the U.S. Treasury Department for a "cut of the action" - like the Polish Nazi gold train hunters.

We'll see.
 

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The gold mine tailings theory is very interesting. A couple of things that caught my eye in the Wikipedia articles in regards to LUE lore.

Camp Bird named after birds that steal = Urraca (magpie or thieving bird)

Walsh's interest in early 20th c. aviation/Aero Club of MA = Miller/Mueller links to aviation industry

Walsh was long dead before any warnings of FDR's impending Gold Act in '34.. and his surviving family (mine owners) already fabulously wealthy... so who was running the mine in the early '30s that might consider pulling off burying tons of tailings ?

hmm.. interesting ! Walsh's daughter Evalyn married a BEALE : Edward Beale McLean, grandson of THE Edward Fitzgerald Beale.

Sdcfia, what was it you said about coincidences ? ;-)
 

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