Lost Dutchman Mine vs. Hidden Caches

[Blindbowman]

if you take what he said out of contect you would be correct .. but thats not how reality works or makes sound logic .. he made the statement in reflecting on how he had coverd the mine ,, it had nothing to do with taking mules over the location of the mine...

 

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[Javaone]

a cowboy will never find the mine . because ,you could not posable get a horse up there ...Fact ! unless you got a horse that can fly .you would have a better chance rideing a mt goat..if you can ride a horse down that mt let me get my camera it would be a good youtube...one side is almost a straight drop ..i lived in Wym . there is no way you could get a horse up ther e let alone get it down and i have seen some real good riders ..if you try that we would be barring you and the horse ...

the reason i shared this is because i am leaveing ,,, good luck ..

Don't Look at me... Blindbowman started it.

 

[Blindbowman]

a cowboy will never find the mine . because ,you could not posable get a horse up there ...Fact ! unless you got a horse that can fly .you would have a better chance rideing a mt goat..if you can ride a horse down that mt let me get my camera it would be a good youtube...one side is almost a straight drop ..i lived in Wym . there is no way you could get a horse up ther e let alone get it down and i have seen some real good riders ..if you try that we would be barring you and the horse ...

the reason i shared this is because i am leaveing ,,, good luck ..

Don't Look at me... Blindbowman started it.

lol what makes you think i have not left already ,, is this me or someone i have trained to act like me ...lol fools are those that think they can not be fools

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote

Quote from: Blindbowman on Jul 29, 2010, 10:29:51 PM
a cowboy will never find the mine . because ,you could not posable get a horse up there ...Fact ! unless you got a horse that can fly .you would have a better chance rideing a mt goat..if you can ride a horse down that mt let me get my camera it would be a good youtube...one side is almost a straight drop ..i lived in Wym . there is no way you could get a horse up ther e let alone get it down and i have seen some real good riders ..if you try that we would be barring you and the horse ...

A cowboy will never find the mine...because no cowboy will get OFF his horse to look at something if he doesn't have to. Doesn't mean the horse can't get there. A good horse can go just about anywhere you can walk, might surprise you. Ever see the movie "The Man From Snowy River"? I do get your argument, however, it is based on an assumption which may well be incorrect.

Think about the other 'clues' and see how they will fit with some extremely high-up, rugged cliff-top fortress site; such as the house in the cave being about 1000 feet across the canyon from it; or the mention of the mine being "in a north-trending canyon", not described as high on a ridge top or on top of a mesa wall. Then there are those statements such as you could drive a mule train over the mine and not see it, or that you could see the old military trail from the mine, but from the trail you could not see the mine; these are all suggestive of a site that is not on the top of a ridge amigo. Were it on some horrible cliff, it would be quite difficult to conceal it and whenever you were at the mine, anyone could see you from miles away. The sounds of your hammer and pick would carry, attracting claim jumpers. I don't know if I can agree that the mine must be in some utterly in-accessible place. After all, Waltz did plan to take his friends to the mine, warning them to wear their old clothes, and they were town-folk not mountain goats.
Oroblanco

 

[Blindbowman]

maybe he had a nother plain in mind ,, watch them ware old close and no what it is to go with out when they wanted so much .


no one will ever find that mine ... if it was out there its long gone by now ...

 

[Oroblanco]

maybe he had a nother plain in mind ,, watch them ware old close and no what it is to go with out when they wanted so much .


no one will ever find that mine ... if it was out there its long gone by now ...

How does a mine become "long gone"? Thank you in advance.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

interesting post --> ...lol fools are those that think they can not be fools
************
Reminds me of another famous one -> "Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the biggest fool of them all?"

Seriously, the distance a loaded burro / mule can travel is exactly the same as the driver or handle'er can travel in the same period of time..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Twisted Fork]

One would be surprised today if they knew just how many roads into the wilderness started as an animal trail, and then a burro trail, and then a hunter's trail, and then came Uncle Sam who cut roads right over the top of them. he he. Thanks Sam

 

[Blindbowman]

maybe he had a nother plain in mind ,, watch them ware old close and no what it is to go with out when they wanted so much .


no one will ever find that mine ... if it was out there its long gone by now ...

How does a mine become "long gone"? Thank you in advance.
Oroblanco

who has seen the mine in the last 120 years ...?

waltz and who? just because some found some of the ore in the desert near the masscre site dose not mean they knew where the mine was ...

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote

who has seen the mine in the last 120 years ...?

waltz and who? just because some found some of the ore in the desert near the masscre site dose not mean they knew where the mine was ...

If you are referring to Silverlock and Malm, there is no other evidence that they found anything; in fact they ended up in the asylum after spending years digging where they found that ore. If you are referring to Gassler, he was not even near the massacre field as far as we know, and had told his friends that he had found the mine; he asked them to go with him so he could show them in fact. So there is reason to believe that he DID find the mine, though he passed away before telling the secret of the location.

Oroblanco

 

[Twisted Fork]

I saw the mine back in 82' and no one else....good luck swallowing that one.

 

[Javaone]

I saw the mine back in 82' and no one else....good luck swallowing that one.

Without proof - It's just "hear say". So why even bring it up?

 

[gollum]

Blindbowman wrote

who has seen the mine in the last 120 years ...?

waltz and who? just because some found some of the ore in the desert near the masscre site dose not mean they knew where the mine was ...

If you are referring to Silverlock and Malm, there is no other evidence that they found anything; in fact they ended up in the asylum after spending years digging where they found that ore. If you are referring to Gassler, he was not even near the massacre field as far as we know, and had told his friends that he had found the mine; he asked them to go with him so he could show them in fact. So there is reason to believe that he DID find the mine, though he passed away before telling the secret of the location.

Oroblanco

Why Roy,

You're making an argument for the Peralta Massacre! Silverlock and Malm found oodles of high grade gold ore scattered about Massacre Canyon. What made them nutty is that they spent years searching for the source of all that gold ore and never found it. Most believe that Massacre Canyon is where the Indians took Doc Thorne and let him collect all he could carry of the rich gold ore that was just laying all over the surface.

Mike

 

[Loke]

Blindbowman wrote

who has seen the mine in the last 120 years ...?

waltz and who? just because some found some of the ore in the desert near the masscre site dose not mean they knew where the mine was ...

If you are referring to Silverlock and Malm, there is no other evidence that they found anything; in fact they ended up in the asylum after spending years digging where they found that ore. If you are referring to Gassler, he was not even near the massacre field as far as we know, and had told his friends that he had found the mine; he asked them to go with him so he could show them in fact. So there is reason to believe that he DID find the mine, though he passed away before telling the secret of the location.

Oroblanco

Why Roy,

You're making an argument for the Peralta Massacre! Silverlock and Malm found oodles of high grade gold ore scattered about Massacre Canyon. What made them nutty is that they spent years searching for the source of all that gold ore and never found it. Most believe that Massacre Canyon is where the Indians took Doc Thorne and let him collect all he could carry of the rich gold ore that was just laying all over the surface.

Mike

Which means - if you believe in it - that there actually _was_ a massacre of Mexicans rather than the pimas ( a single body with a gold tooth!!)
Ohhhh dear - the more I learn, the more I realize that I don't know!!

Can anyone tell me if
1) there actually _was_ a massacre (is this actually _proved_ anywhere and not just hearsay)
2) that the victims were indeed Mexicans and not just other indians

I must admit to being somewhat confused about it all. I guess, the easiest explanation would be that there actually was a massacre of the Peraltas in which case they must have had a mine (or more) and many things fall into place.
However, if this cannot be proved - then the whole thing would be castles floating in the air - we dont really know anything about anybody - which may be why nothing has been found (as of yet) - but then there is Walter Gassler, and there's Silverlock & Malm - they _did_ find gold, that is undisputed (I think!) ... hey, I'm gonna stop before my head start spinning like a yoyo.

 

[Blindbowman]

i believe silverlock & malm was reacting to long trem arscenic contact ... i do not think they were crazy at all ..

 

[Twisted Fork]

There was enough stuff laying all over the ground to get excited enough to build a town in B.F. Egypt.

Bringing it up is prerequisite to bring it out, eh? The guys are running out of time with this funny old egg hunt we have going here. You'll see. The tablets are real and so is the mine. How do you like your crow cooked?

 

[gollum]

Blindbowman wrote

who has seen the mine in the last 120 years ...?

waltz and who? just because some found some of the ore in the desert near the masscre site dose not mean they knew where the mine was ...

If you are referring to Silverlock and Malm, there is no other evidence that they found anything; in fact they ended up in the asylum after spending years digging where they found that ore. If you are referring to Gassler, he was not even near the massacre field as far as we know, and had told his friends that he had found the mine; he asked them to go with him so he could show them in fact. So there is reason to believe that he DID find the mine, though he passed away before telling the secret of the location.

Oroblanco

Why Roy,

You're making an argument for the Peralta Massacre! Silverlock and Malm found oodles of high grade gold ore scattered about Massacre Canyon. What made them nutty is that they spent years searching for the source of all that gold ore and never found it. Most believe that Massacre Canyon is where the Indians took Doc Thorne and let him collect all he could carry of the rich gold ore that was just laying all over the surface.

Mike

Which means - if you believe in it - that there actually _was_ a massacre of Mexicans rather than the pimas ( a single body with a gold tooth!!)
Ohhhh dear - the more I learn, the more I realize that I don't know!!

Can anyone tell me if
1) there actually _was_ a massacre (is this actually _proved_ anywhere and not just hearsay)
2) that the victims were indeed Mexicans and not just other indians

I must admit to being somewhat confused about it all. I guess, the easiest explanation would be that there actually was a massacre of the Peraltas in which case they must have had a mine (or more) and many things fall into place.
However, if this cannot be proved - then the whole thing would be castles floating in the air - we dont really know anything about anybody - which may be why nothing has been found (as of yet) - but then there is Walter Gassler, and there's Silverlock & Malm - they _did_ find gold, that is undisputed (I think!) ... hey, I'm gonna stop before my head start spinning like a yoyo.

Loke,

In a word... NO.

Do you have Helen Corbin's LDM Bible? If you don't, let me know and I'll post the ENTIRE William Edwards Story. The version in Thomas Glover's Book leaves a lot out. Glover's Book ends when Edwards finds the skeleton under the bush with the gold tooth. In Corbin's Version, Sgt Edwards follows the trail of skeletons from the Massacre Grounds into the mountains, and along the way finding various mining tools, pieces of sandals, etc.

Edwards also makes an interesting point; Traditionally when Apache killed white men, they stripped the bodies of all clothing. When they killed other Indians they didn't strip them because other Indians may have had charms that would be bad luck for anybody but the original owner.

What we do know is from interviews with various Peralta Family Members regarding their family history. There have been several people over the years that have tracked down and interviewed different members of both the Peralta and Gonzales Families. All the versions of the stories I have read agree with each other that Pedro Peralta was the only actual Peralta to survive the massacre, along with a few of the peons.

Best-Mike

 

[Loke]

*lol* running off to re-read the 'bible' ....

 

[gollum]

Pages 273-283.

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Per,

There was a time when I would have taken that story from Mrs. Corbin's book and defended its truth with everything I have. Circumstances have changed my attitude in the last year or so.

While the story may be true, I would not speak one word in its defense today. I would suggest that you read it with the possibility in your mind.....that it is complete fiction.

Take care,

Joe