Lost Dutchman Mine vs. Hidden Caches

[mrs.oroblanco]

Thanks CJ,

Like I said, I have only seen the one, (the one we have) so, I really didn't know for sure. (and actually hadn't thought about it until it was brought up).

Storm seems to have been an interesting person, though. (aside from his writings).

B

 

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Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[cactusjumper]

Beth,

A good book for a little insight into Barry Storm is: "West of dawn" by Hugh D'Autremont. EBay has one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/West-of-Dawn-by...emQQptZUS_Nonfiction_Book?hash=item3a57e2d69a

The book is a bit pricey and has no cover. On the other hand, it is a first edition. It's a fairly rare book so I suppose you could consider it an investment. Read it, and put it up for sale. It's rare enough that I don't loan my copy out to friends.

Joe

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I don't like to loan out books, either. Even if they are not first edition signed copies, so I understand that.

I've heard that author's name somewhere, but can't place it. Thanks - when I get a few bucks extra, I'll have to read it.
Never hurts to have one more book in the library, and it never hurts to have some background information on writers who's stories
you read about!


Have a good one,

Beth

 

[cactusjumper]

Beth,

A few years ago while looking for "West of dawn", I ran across this:

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/andyhiggins/Greattrainrobbery.html

It's a very interesting tale, so I printed it out and saved it.

I do have two copies of the book, but only one is signed. I suppose I could loan the other out.

If anyone comes across something like this, buy it.

Joe

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

CJ,

That's an interesting article! Thanks.

I checked with our library - they may be able to get it in an inter-library loan (I will know in the next couple of days). I do hate to borrow things, of any kind. I'm always worried something will happen to it while in my care. (that includes just about anything, not just books - if something is going to break, tear, or fall apart, it will happen while I have it, then I feel obligated to replace it - which means I buy it, but don't have it) But, I do appreciate the offer.

Hopefully, I will be able to get a copy to read.

Beth

 

[cactusjumper]

1

West of Dawn, True Advantures of a Gold Prospector During the Great Depression-Signed

By D'Autremont, Hugh


Price: $60.00

Ships from CA, USA

Add to wishlist

Edition: First Edition Binding: Hardcover Publisher: Exposition Press, NY Date published: 1971
Description: Fine in Very Good to Fine jacket. Signed by Author read more

Condition:

Book:
seller information:

Name: Feldman's Books, CA, USA

Reliability:



If anyone is interested, this signed first edition can be found here:

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?binding=&mtype=&keyword="west+of+dawn"&hs.x=28&hs.y=12

Joe

 

[ghostdog]

D"Autremont,was on a expedition with Storm in 1938 when he discovered a Peralta charcoal pit....I dont have his book,but it probably makes a good read.

 

[cactusjumper]

GD,

[D"Autremont,was on a expedition with Storm in 1938 when he discovered a Peralta charcoal pit...]

They did "discover" what d'Autremont called "an ancient charcoal pit....", and I would assume he was qualified to make the assertion. At no time was it called a "Peralta charcoal pit". Making the discovery a bit suspicious, was the fact that they found "a .45-90 Sharps rifle shell" in the charcoal pit. I see Storms talented hand in the "discovery".

I know that d'Autremont was in the Superstitions in 1937-38, and they found the pit and rifle shell in the first week, or so, in the mountains.

Out of curiosity, what was your source....if you can say?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[assistanttoauthors]

I cannot believe what I discovered in 2006 have not been discovered by others with all the technology available today. There is more to the Peralta Stone Tablets. I saw and photographed them recently at the Superstition Mountain Museum where they are on loan. There are very small carvings underneath what everyone agrees is there. The entire terrain of the Mountains to the North the Superstition Mountains.

 

[gollum]

I cannot believe what I discovered in 2006 have not been discovered by others with all the technology available today. There is more to the Peralta Stone Tablets. I saw and photographed them recently at the Superstition Mountain Museum where they are on loan. There are very small carvings underneath what everyone agrees is there. The entire terrain of the Mountains to the North the Superstition Mountains.

Welcome,

Buuuuuuuuut, do you REALLY think you saw something that nobody else has seen in the sixty-one years the Stone Maps have been back above ground? Three people have owned them privately before 1970. Since then, many thousands of people have seen them at the AM&M Museum. Many people have also had the opportunity to examine them up close and personal.

I promise you that anything you have seen, has been seen by MANY people before you.

Best-Mike

 

[Cubfan64]

I cannot believe what I discovered in 2006 have not been discovered by others with all the technology available today. There is more to the Peralta Stone Tablets. I saw and photographed them recently at the Superstition Mountain Museum where they are on loan. There are very small carvings underneath what everyone agrees is there. The entire terrain of the Mountains to the North the Superstition Mountains.

Any chance of seeing a photograph showing what you saw?

 

[ghostdog]

CatusJoe, in response to your query and comments, and the fact you have tied the 2 solders deer hunting with D,Aut.this is my interpation of Storms writeings.Quote.Storm-The charcoal pit is perhaps the best evidence of nearby mineing.It was discovered by myself Jan.29,1938 in the presence of Walt Upman,D,A,and Gene Holman,and contained layers of ashes down to a depth of 3 ft.By laying a sheet of earthed up stones to it, the same effect could be had as in a blacksmiths shop useing a bellows.{at the time they were searching for the Peralta mines,and found a Peralta charcoalpit}Quote-I discovered the Shell my self in front of John Vall,June 12th 1937.Vall is not his real name.{2 soldiers}ok it was a shell, not a bullet as I previsouly stated. Storm shows a photo of Ruths skull with bullets holes in it,{in response to the other thread}CJoe,all refs from my copy of Storms book.Finis

 

[cactusjumper]

GD,

Sorry, I guess I should have made it clearer. I was talking about what d'Autremont put in his book, not the fact that Storm may have made the Peralta connection in his writings. It was a poor choice of words when I wrote, [At no time was it called a "Peralta charcoal pit".]

In the "PROLOGUE" to "PART III: ADVENTURE TRAILLS", which is where d'Autremont and "Vall" enter Storm's book, Barry writes:

[A treasure hunter's adventures are sometimes so utterly fantastic that fiction is often the easier to believe. And while the following "I" stories have been fictionized to make a dramatic point as well as tone down unadorned truth in some instances, they are none the less based upon those actual treasure and story hunting methods and golden clues upon which they are built. Nor can they embody more than a small part of the research concluded to date.]

It is likely that anything attributed to "Vall" was pure fiction, supported by a fictional character. Storm used to be the final word on all things Dutchman or Peralta. His books are no longer held in such high esteem by many Dutch Hunters.

Thanks for your reply,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[ghostdog]

Hey Joe, that paragraph is not in my copy of Storms ,Thunder Gods Gold.In my epilog he is basically covering himself from future lawsuits,and admitting he is not discloseing all imformation he is in possession of.On another note, Storm says he caught Vall trying to steal his notebook while they were in the mts,and he sent Vall packing at gunpoint,back to San Diego.I think Storm feels Vall may not have been a alias name.As far as Storm not being beliveable,I differ on that and feel no other author has been more accurate on the same written subjects. Finis,for now

 

[cactusjumper]

GD,

Those words are not in all of Storm's books. The first edition (1939) had no such "Prologue" statement. I have found that most people have one of the 1945 versions. The following picture shows the Prologue from the 1st. Printing of the "Trade Edition" of the 1953 Revised, Enlarged Edition.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[donnaplace]

To all,

I've already said pretty much everything I wanted to say on this subject. However, I cannot understand - and maybe somebody can enlighten
me on this, because it has been mentioned many, many, many times since we started this discussion why SOME people want to ignore a MAJOR fact.

Here is Reed: ".....the character of the ore was nuggets, in packed gravel which loosens up with water enough so that the nuggets can be picked up by hand"

NO QUARTZ - the packed gravel is caliche - THAT IS A PLACER, not a lode, and certainly not the material that was shown as Waltz's gold.

Because it was not Waltz's lode mine that he was at.

Ok, I'm done now. Ignore the basic, major facts if you want to.

B

could thay not be both kinds of ores, there at that place and time?
thay had to be some ore that wash out of the Lost Dutchman Mine over the millions of years before it was found.

 

[gollum]

Sorry Donna,

Waltz described the ore in his mine in minute detail. Nothing like Reed's description.

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Donna,

"thay had to be some ore that wash out of the Lost Dutchman Mine over the millions of years before it was found."

What if Waltz's pit mine was in a depression? Nowhere to go but back down into the pit? I have shown pictures of such a pit mine.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[donnaplace]

np.
i been reading all the Lost Dutchman Mine posts.
and trying to understand everthing.lol
and though maybe Waltz was robbed before he found the mine.
was not sure about the time line.
lol guess i better just shut up and keep reading.for the next 2 years lol at less

 

[gollum]

No Donna,

The best way to find out is to ask questions. There is about ten times (conservative estimate) as much BS written about the Lost Dutchman as there is fact.

If ya wanna read up, in my opinion, the three best books on the subject are:

1. Sims Ely; "The Lost Dutchman Mine" out of print for many years, but you can still get copies fairly inexpensively

2. Thomas Glover: "The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz" still in print

3. Helen Corbin; "The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz:" still in print

Sims Ely's Book is the ONLY one in which the author actually interviewed people who knew Jacob Waltz. If you read those three books, you will have a grasp on the Lost Dutchman Mine better than 95% of the rest of the world.

Best-Mike