Lost Dutchman Mine vs. Hidden Caches

[gollum]

"Is his word any more or less credible than Julia Thomas or Rhiney Petrasch? Tom Glover's Book looks pretty solid to me that Julia Roberts was selling tickets to the locals to see Waltz on his death bed."

We have pretty well shown that the stories you are referring to are false. The source is more than questionable, and I have my doubts that Dr. Glover will include the story in any future editions.....or new books.

Who was shown to be distrustful? Was it Margaret Roberts or Frank Alkire. It would seem from the reading that for the story to be BS, then Margaret Roberts would have had to be lying, because she verified Frank Alkire's Story with another resident who confirmed what Alkire said.

Am I correct there Joe? If so, please site the evidence you are referring to. Remember, I am ALWAYS looking for the real truth and am not above hearing it about ANYBODY!

Best-Mike

 

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[cactusjumper]

Mike,

Rest assured that I don't believe that Margaret Roberts ever lied. At the same time, we have made it pretty obvious that Frank Alkire never told that story, and it is "factually" not possible.

That's the best I can do......for now.

The truth is important to me as well.

Take care,

Jope.....That's way to close to Dope! Freudian slip

 

[gollum]

So Jope (LOL),

I am a bit confused here. I understand that you have some information that you can't expound on, buuuuuuut, your statement doesn't make sense.

Rest assured that I don't believe that Margaret Roberts ever lied. At the same time, we have made it pretty obvious that Frank Alkire never told that story, and it is "factually" not possible.

Okay, so the Frank Alkire story is not true. How then, did Margaret Roberts confirm his story with Charles White who lived in Phoenix at the time and confirmed the "supposed" Alkire Story?

Also, in the book notes, Glover talks about a Mr. Tull who also confirmed the story as told by his father.

Summation: We have two confirmations of Alkire's Story (one by M Roberts and one by T Glover). Even if Alkire never said a word of the story that is attributed to him, there are two different confirmations of the basic premise that Julia Roberts was selling admission to see Waltz on his death bed.

Confused-Mike

 

[gollum]

Basically,

Lets just take Frank Alklire out of the story. Let's say that anything regarding it is "suspect". I can live with that. If there is evidence that he wasn't in town during that time, or something to that effect, okay.

Because of that story, Margaret Roberts verified it with a Charles White. Charles White said that the story told was as he remembered it.

Without reading Glover's Book (it was at the time just going to press, so there was no way Tull could have read it there), Glover was told the same story by a Mr. Tull. Mr Tull said that his father had told him about the same basic facts as the Alkire Story (Thomas selling tickets to see Waltz).

So, we have a potentially untrue story attributed to Frank Alkire, but the facts of the story are twice confirmed by two separate people? ? ? ? ?

Best-Mike

 

[Jim Hatt]

Thanks for the links but, having been banned for life from DesertUSA, I won't be able to see what you are talking about. It's refreshing not to be the one you think has an opposing agenda with Jim Hatt.....or vice versa.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

It may surprise you to learn, that I often agree with your stand on certain issues relating to the spread of disinformation, concerning the Lost Dutchman Mine. Probably a lot more often than you realize. It pained me considerably to Ban "i-tsarl-tsu- i" from the member list on the DUSA forums. You brought with that character, a vast knowledge and background, that from time to time, contributed a lot of valuable information to the forums.

Regrettably, that character also brought out an attitude from time to time, that was very disruptive to the general exchange of information, in some discussions. That created an atmosphere in the forums that made a lot of people uncomfortable in expressing their own views and opinions.

Every member of that forum, has just as much right to express their disagreement with your opinions, as you had to express them in the first place. When you refused to accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you, and tried to bully your way into getting people to accept your opinions, (as the only truth in a matter). You were given warning (several times), and finally told straight out, that it was time to agree to disagree, and move on to something else. You chose to ignore that, pick up right where you had left off, and suffered the "Boot" for it.

You have called that a violation of your Freedom of Speech. I believe Beth Decker said it best when she made the statement "like most rights guaranteed by the constitution, your freedom ends where it impedes someone elses". (Quoted from another forum)

For the record... It was not you personally "Joe Ribaudo" that was banned from the forums. I have a fair ampunt of respect for the man "Joe Ribaudo". What I banned from the forums, was the attitude of the character portrayed by "i-tsarl-tsu- i" and the abusive and disrespectful way that character often chose to get it's point across.

As I have told other membesr of that forum, that have been banned, and requested that they be reinstated. I will not reinstate a username that has been banned. However, if that member wishes to re-register using another name, and refrains from the past behavior, (that got them banned before). I will probably not even notice they have returned.

Some have come back, and become valued contributors to the forums. Others have ended up just getting the "Boot" again. I did not write the rules of the DUSA Forums. They were there long before I became a moderator there. I just do my best to enforce them, as I understand them, and maintain a comfortable atmosphere for every member of the forum, no matter what their opinion is on any issue.
(As I am sure is the same goal for the Moderators here on T-Net).

Jim Hatt

 

[cactusjumper]

Jim,

You have derailed this topic far enough. I should have ignored you.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[jeff of pa]

Please Everyone Stay on subject here.

THANK YOU

JEFF

 

[cactusjumper]

Jeff,

My apologies.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[gollum]

Hey,

At least it wasn't about King Midas and Moses who were the first owners of what we now call the Dutchman's Lost Mine! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Best-Mike

 

[Jim Hatt]

"Dutchman's Lost Mine"

Best-Mike

NON-Conformist! (Someone's always trying to re-write History)

Double Best - Jim

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

To all,

I've already said pretty much everything I wanted to say on this subject. However, I cannot understand - and maybe somebody can enlighten
me on this, because it has been mentioned many, many, many times since we started this discussion why SOME people want to ignore a MAJOR fact.

Here is Reed: ".....the character of the ore was nuggets, in packed gravel which loosens up with water enough so that the nuggets can be picked up by hand"

NO QUARTZ - the packed gravel is caliche - THAT IS A PLACER, not a lode, and certainly not the material that was shown as Waltz's gold.

Because it was not Waltz's lode mine that he was at.

Ok, I'm done now. Ignore the basic, major facts if you want to.

B

 

[gollum]

"Dutchman's Lost Mine"

Best-Mike

NON-Conformist! (Someone's always trying to re-write History)

Double Best - Jim

Jim,

The Dutchman was never lost, his mine was, so to call it the Lost Dutchman would not be correct! HAHAHAHA

 

[gollum]

To all,

I've already said pretty much everything I wanted to say on this subject. However, I cannot understand - and maybe somebody can enlighten
me on this, because it has been mentioned many, many, many times since we started this discussion why SOME people want to ignore a MAJOR fact.

Here is Reed: ".....the character of the ore was nuggets, in packed gravel which loosens up with water enough so that the nuggets can be picked up by hand"

NO QUARTZ - the packed gravel is caliche - THAT IS A PLACER, not a lode, and certainly not the material that was shown as Waltz's gold.

Because it was not Waltz's lode mine that he was at.

Ok, I'm done now. Ignore the basic, major facts if you want to.

B

Beth,

The only person ignoring a major fact is you. I love ya dear, but PLEASE go back to page two, post #186, where I blew up that excerpt from Clay Worst's Article. THAT explains EVERYTHING you asked. Same thing I told Roy.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,299816.msg2212586.html#msg2212586

Best-Mike

 

[Jim Hatt]

Jim,

The Dutchman was never lost, his mine was, so to call it the Lost Dutchman would not be correct! HAHAHAHA

Mike,

I believe it was Jim Bark who first called it "The Lost Dutchman Mine" somewhere around 1906.
The name has stuck pretty good for over 100 years, and through 100 over books, newspaper articles and magazines on the subject.

I understand your logic, and the logic Tom Kollenborn used in his article, where he suggested that the "Dutchman's Lost Mine" would have been a more appropriate name, but even Tom has not not tried to change it at this late date.

You can use "DLM" if you want to, but I don't think it will ever "catch on" so to speak.

Same goes for the Peralta Stone Maps. They we also named way before you and I ever got interested in them. You can call them Slabs, Stones or Tablets, anything you want to, but I don't think that would "catch on" either.

When the person who carved them shows up and tells me what that he called them, I might consider changing my mind. But, until then I will continue to call them the "Peralta Stone Maps".

I don't make up new names for things, I just go with the recorded history.

Anybody remember the Title of this thread? I have already had some of my posts "DELETED" for responding to "Off Topic" posts.

Ask me a question about how many Caches Waltz and Weiser made, and I will feel more comfortable responding.

Jim

 

[gollum]

Hey Jim,

How many caches do you think Waltz had? Not necessarily Waltz and Weisser. I know that story, but Waltz was a pretty sharp cookie himself, and I'm fairly certain he knew that his years of working his mine were severely numbered by his age and the self admitted roughness of the terrain around his mine.

I think Waltz had likely made caches other than the ones he originally made with Weisser, and put them in places easier to get to than the mine.

Best-Mike

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I'm not ignoring that. In fact, that's part of the problem - Reed did not keep his stories consistent.

But, you are choosing to ignore what does not fit your idea.

Which is: (also from Reed - gee, I think I've done this before.........)

".....the character of the ore was nuggets, in packed gravel which loosens up with water enough so that the nuggets can be picked up by hand"

So, since they were both by Reed - you can just choose which one of his stories you want to believe.

I wonder when Reed decided it was lode instead of placer?


Really, you can believe what you want. Ignore what you want. Reed will never be equal to Ely.

Good evening and good hunting.

B

 

[Jim Hatt]

Hey Jim,

How many caches do you think Waltz had?

Best-Mike

Three... And, as Mrs. "O" has already explained in a lot of detail, Waltz carried two of them away, and as far as anyone knows, the third one is still left there for us to find.

Before you ask... No I do not believe Henry Burns or anyone else has already found it.

Jim

 

[gollum]

"Reed will never be equal to Ely."

In your mind maybe. I don't question Ely's honesty or his reporting of the facts as he knew them. I just don't know how honest and forthright his sources might have been to him, or what changes he made to his book (info left out or changed to suit the Bark Family). Everything Ely got was second hand information. Granted, that's about as good as it gets in LDM/DLM lore, Reed was part first hand, and part second.

I can completely understand and sympathize with him for the different versions of his story to different people. He explained his reasons to Clay Worst and you are free to believe or disbelieve him. Because of his explanations, I give him the benefit of the doubt. As best as I can tell, neither one of us has found that mine, so neither of our opinions are worth spit except to ourselves! HAHAHA

Best-Mike

Ely Ely he's our man. If he can't do it no one can! Goooooooooooooooo Ely!​

 

[gollum]

If you buy this game, you can be like Blindbowman, John Kemm, and many others who have found the LDM:

[youtube=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Ladies & men: Just confusedly listening / reading.

As I once posted, you are attempting to prove to each other by means of incomplete and possibly questionable documents that your version is the correct one. In doing so, you may be passing over relatively important bits of data by searching for something to back up your semi - preconceived ideas.

This was an important step for me on the search for Tayopa. It was difficult to not to jump to a conclusion by each small bit of data which tended to conform with my thoughts.

For example -->

"There is considerable level ground between First Water Ranch & the Needle & most of the
rest is side hill ground that could be worked down to a passable road for a small truck.
This would do away with mule packing, which is slow and expensive"

The above statement would tend to eliminate 99% of the Superstitions, perhaps even eliminate the need to search the high ground, since if it were high up the need for animals to pack it up to the
final area would have been noted..

Just ruminating, crunch crunch. Prob where I told Dejuicy it was, in one of my posts to him snicker.
Quien sabe.

Don Jose de La Mancha