LDM why you cant get it !

[Loke]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Me thinks that a lot hinges on whether or not Holmes went to Hidden Water first - or if it took him 5 years to do it. If it was at Hidden Water where he followed Waltz and he went straight there - he can't have got much out of old Jacob.
On the other hand - if it took him 5 years, it must almost have been an act of desperation ... not being successful at whatever he got out of the old man.

 

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[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Loke,

That's a good point there.

At one time or another, I have thought both ways - that's where Holmes lost Waltz, and maybe, that's where Waltz told him he buried the body.

However, thinking beyond that - it could also be that Waltz did not tell him the truth, about anything - or only a part truth - or maybe Waltz was
a little out of it - or a lot out of it - and screwed it up NOT on purpose, but it didn't get across to Holmes correctly. There are so many possible variations on that, that Holmes may have gone there just to see if he could pick up where he left off earlier, and then follow whatever clues he could from Waltz's story.

We know where Waltz tried to take Julia - but she screwed it up, too. And, there is always the "clue" where Waltz says that he would almost have to take someone there, because that mine is so hard to find. And, why would you be able to drive a pack train over it if you had to hang off a cliff?

I think that's where you have to figure out the "trick in the trail".

Beth

 

[Loke]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Loke,

That's a good point there.

At one time or another, I have thought both ways - that's where Holmes lost Waltz, and maybe, that's where Waltz told him he buried the body.

However, thinking beyond that - it could also be that Waltz did not tell him the truth, about anything - or only a part truth - or maybe Waltz was
a little out of it - or a lot out of it - and screwed it up NOT on purpose, but it didn't get across to Holmes correctly. There are so many possible variations on that, that Holmes may have gone there just to see if he could pick up where he left off earlier, and then follow whatever clues he could from Waltz's story.

We know where Waltz tried to take Julia - but she screwed it up, too. And, there is always the "clue" where Waltz says that he would almost have to take someone there, because that mine is so hard to find. And, why would you be able to drive a pack train over it if you had to hang off a cliff?

I think that's where you have to figure out the "trick in the trail".

Beth

Beth,
*chuckles* You are ever so right of course! To _me_ - actions speak louder than words, but as you so correctly point out - he could have got everything, something or nothing - and we still wont know *sigh*
Guess we are right back to square-one again on that one!

 

[ancientones]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

cubfan64,
I have been closer to the mine, I am only posting pictures that show the site. I am posting my information for those that know the clues,
(Indian, Mexicans and others) and if they can see enough to warrant a trip there for themselves. As you know from JHs post on 'his' forums, my story has no merit, this is not the location, and pictures will not prove anything. He is the expert after all.

Real de Tayopa
I think this tailings pile is in the 'funnel shaped pit'. Per the stories, the ore was removed from the shaft and taken over a little rise into
this pit. It is possible the mules could be brought up to this point on the ledge, there is alot of brush there now and I did not enter the ledge from this side.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Ancientones - if we seem to be very skeptical about what you have said, keep in mind how you might react if someone sent you on a wild goose chase and then got a somewhat similar story. I don't know how many of us here have been sent on such a hike (some may not be willing to admit it) but after one such experience you get to be pretty skeptical when someone says "here is the LDM" and want to see more proof before you jump into the pickup. Nothing personal about it, just don't wish to go hunting the wild fowl - life is too short and we usually have our own ideas about where to look.

If you should decide to post photos shot closer up, I for one would appreciate it. Perhaps something can be made out in a closer photo that would help indicate ore,mineralization etc? Just an idea.

****To any newbies reading our discussion and not posting, please use due caution and always go well prepared into any desert or wilderness. Don't depend on gadgetry (GPS) learn how to use a map and compass. I won't bore you with more warnings, just use your heads and if you have any questions that you don't want to make public for whatever reason, just PM or EM almost any of the experienced members here and ask, most of them will be more than happy to give advice that will help you avoid getting into trouble or disaster. Don't be embarrassed to ask even a simple question, remember everyone was a newbie at some time.***

Sorry for the off topic bit there, must sign off but will try to pop in later, hope you all have a great day.
Oroblanco

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

after 35 some odd years i still am amazed athow many people confuse the number of sites related to this legend and what they are and why ...

i have not been here for a few months and if i was it was only to say i was alright and let people know my computer was down ...

a year ago my younger bother mike died of bone cancer and me and him had set a date to go ridding our bikes . he ask me if i would help him, fix his bike and two weeks latter when he did not call back i called him and found out he had been told about the bone cancer .. that date is coming up in 4 days on june 1st .. i have worked night and had 2 or 3 hours of sleep for the last 4 months but my bike was running this morning for the first time in 4 years ,i am sore and need to rest but after the 1st . i will ride on the first ...and anyone out there that thinks i am just playing games with the DLM is a fool ..

we never know how much time we have left and if you enjoy the legend great if you enjoy the hun t even better ...i have hads a hard time coming to crips with ending the hunt for the lost dutchman mine for those that enjoy the legend dayly ..

not any more

i will find out if i have found the real DLM ... i dont give up i done walk away ...my hands are blistard and i need a few weeks rest after the 1st .. till then .. stay safe stay free

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

BB,

Good to see you post.


I think - in this case - it is the respectful thing to do - to allow anyone, especially since we are on a treasure hunting site - to present their case, ask questions and have a discussion about different angles to their theories and finds, whys and where-fores.

There are as many theories as their are folks, sometimes - and sometimes, you cannot get 2 people to agree on the meaning of the same sentence. It makes for interesting conversation and maybe even a lesson or two - if for nothing else, then on condition of trails, hills, roads and whatnot.

Beth

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

BB,

Good to see you post.


I think - in this case - it is the respectful thing to do - to allow anyone, especially since we are on a treasure hunting site - to present their case, ask questions and have a discussion about different angles to their theories and finds, whys and where-fores.

There are as many theories as their are folks, sometimes - and sometimes, you cannot get 2 people to agree on the meaning of the same sentence. It makes for interesting conversation and maybe even a lesson or two - if for nothing else, then on condition of trails, hills, roads and whatnot.

Beth

i dont have any questions about what i found .. i know what it is .. i knew what it was the day i found it ...and yes i agree you have the right to ask anything you want .. i have to much to do right now to make a long reply .. but when its time i will go back one more time .. the last time for me ...

 

[Gossamer]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Hot damn, I forgot how much I love this group!
I've spent several hours reading, but I just wanted to say hi! Someone PMd me and asked if I were still interested in the old stories, curious way to pique my interest.
Hola Oro, Mrs. Oro
Cubby!! hey!
Blindbowman, hope this finds you well. Look forward to your presentation of your finds.
All of you, great posting.
Janiece aka Gossamer

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Hola amigo Gossamer! Long time no-see! Good to see you posting again, and I hope that you will share your adventures with us.
Oroblanco

 

[Gossamer]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Ah Oro, so nice to see your up...
I've been working on a hunt of a different sort. My grandma was very up about her genealogy, so in her honor I'm working on mine.
I'm an obsessive researcher, so it is crazy, but fortunately one line kept really good records.
All the way back to 1070 so far.
And I just found something everyone had missed, my GGgrandfather was approved in the Southern Claims congressional act.
Its really nice to take a breather and read all these other ideas.
Love having 'another' find of the LDM. Or on this thread alone hasn't there been 3 claims to that. LOL... I do enjoy the passion.
Keep em' coming it never gets boring. Who would have thought that big ole' Mountain in my back yard would incite this kind of buzz... Although my school bus driver was also the Sheriff on AJ and told me stories to and from school when I would ask.
Gossamer out.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

So cool! I want to hear more, but also have to sign off - having a LOT of internet trouble and may be our local server so will be back tomorrow.

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Good to see you amongst the living again Gossamer. You were missed at last year's Rendezvous, but there's another one coming up this October again.

Geneology research can indeed be incredibly time consuming and addicting! I've worked on my family's a few times in the past year, but I have so many "hobbies," that I hate to get completely caught up in one like I know I would! I do a little here and there when I can, and eventually hope to put a nice story together. You've done a heck of a job if you're back to the year 1070!! That's very cool!

Weren't you working on a website to sell antiques or something? Maybe I'm completely mistaken, but I thought you were looking at doing something similar to that.

Don't be a stranger.

Paul

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Hi transparent skivvies, w bk

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Gossamer]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Transparent skivvies oh Don Jose!! Gossamer is the name of the orange monster in white tennis shoes in the WB cartoons, and is my avatar. You are so funny, where your mind goes, my lord!
Cubby, last year did they give out a replica of the stone maps? Or was it the year before? I have to tell you time is not my relative.
Anyway, I will look forward to this upcoming gathering.
Ohmyyes, genealogy is time consuming. I'm fortunate that a ton of stuff is already published. They chronicle the family Leslie back to grant of land by William the Conquerer's brother, or something like that.
One of my ancestors was Chancellor John Maitland, so along with this journey I'm learning a lot of history. I have some of the books, and am trying to get the rest. Unfortunately my GGgrandfather split with his family and he is my dead end, but I'm working on it, they won't let me into the genealogical society that bears his last name until I solve this puzzle, and since he is my Grandmothers grandfather, well I have to find him.
Gossamer

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

HI gossamer, you say his name was Chancellor John Maitland?? Let me think, it does sound familiar, maybe I knew him personally.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Gossamer]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

If you 'knew' him personally, well.. wow Don Jose, you never mentioned you were an immortal!?
I knew there was something quite special about you.
kisses, Gossamer

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

sigh blushing violently. almost.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Gossamer]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Its so sweet to see you blush Don Jose!
I have a question, and please bear with me on the newbieness of it.
I've read the books, read the posts, but would like any of you to give me your own individual impressions of the man, Jacob Waltz, including what you glean of his charactor, education... whatever you know or feel.
Treasure hunters are in some respects (this is my observation) are like profilers, you have to interpet the clues and still stay on task.
Is there anybody in the legend with the last name Star, or something like that?
I'm very curious to hear from Mrs. Oro, your recent observations are very interesting as far as what you said about 'what someone does, rather than what they write".
Very, very well put.
Sorry if this seems a little off topic, hopefully some of the things I've found will actually make more sense with this kind of insight.
Thank you for your time, I know you are all busy, I really appreciate your indulgence.
Gossamer

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Gossamer, because I am not a big believer in the Holme's side of the story, I don't intepret or picture Waltz as the "killer" that some other folks do. I can't prove a thing, but I just don't see that as being part of his character. I see him as primarily a loner with a few people he developed closer relationships to, but even then he kept much to himself. I don't view him as having "gold fever" and being driven to do whatever it took to get rich. I picture him as somewhat of a miser who had a comfort level with having his gold nearby or at least in a spot where only he could find it.

I'm guessing the name "Star" you are reffering to is Andrew and Jacob Starrar who live fairly close to Waltz's property in Phoenix. An entire thread could be started and discussed in regards to the Starrar's and their relationship with Waltz. At one point, Jacob Waltz apparently deeded his entire homestead to Andrew Starrar with the promise that Andrew would care for Waltz for the rest of his life as needed. I don't have the facts in front of me at this time, but I know there have been LOTS of discussions around that incident and what if anything it may mean about Waltz having a mine or not.

Hopefully some folks more knowledgeable than I can shed more light on it for you