LDM why you cant get it !

[Oroblanco]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Roy,

My source for the book being removed from sale was Bob Corbin. It may very well be that they could not remove the book from stores that had purchased a number of them for stock.

I posted this message this morning on the LDM Forum for which I posted a link earlier:

[My source for Tom being the one who gave Helen the Olbers Manifest was a partner of Kraig Roberts. They led me down many a false trail. They played me like a fiddle. ops:

At this time, I have no reason for "confidentiality". Helen's source was Kraig Roberts. My source for that information was Bob Corbin, who was there with Greg and Kraig when he gave it to her. Bob gave me his permission to name him as my source in a telephone conversation this morning.

If you read back through this thread, you will be able to judge the authenticity of the manifest for yourself. In clearing up that last bit of information, I can now put the Olbers story behind me. I believe we have, pretty much debunked that "evidence" along with the Frank Alkire's story.]

That should end any speculation concerning the Olber's Manifest....but I doubt it.

Take care,

Joe

Greetings Joe,

My observation on Amazon still listing the book was that they "may have a few left" which is what the page claims for the book, quote

The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz: A Pioneer History of the Gold Rush (Prospecting and Treasure Hunting) [Paperback]
Helen Corbin (Author)
4.4 out of 5 stars See all reviews (5 customer reviews) | Like (0)
List Price: $24.95
Price: $18.96 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Details
You Save: $5.99 (24%)

In Stock.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.
Only 4 left in stock--order soon

My reason for posting it at all, was for anyone desiring a copy before they disappear entirely. Amazon may not even have these four copies, who knows how often the web pages are updated for current inventories?

I have read and followed the full thread on the Olbers ship manifest, quite an interesting discussion really. My mention of Waltz country of origin on a ship manifest does not refer only to the Olbers for there are several Jacob Waltz named on several different ship manifests arriving in New York (for instance) but as far as I know, none list Prussia as his country of origin.

Mr Roberts efforts to deceive were pretty successful, but may yet backfire on him. I think Roberts contributions of false info do not include the whole of Helen Corbin's book, just a portion that can be picked out and still have an excellent book. It is still valuable to me for what it contains. Just a personal opinion.

I never understand the motives for those who pull a huge fraud; for the effort expended it seems logical that they would have profited as much or more in an honest pursuit, without the risk of legal actions.
Roy

 

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[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Sorry - I forgot to post the year.

The one I posted was from California, 1860. There is one (actually 2) from 10 years later, done in Arizona, listed under the Arizona and New Mexico Territories Census.

Beth

 

[Gossamer]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

I agree Roy, this has been my huge problem with this whole story from the get. I don't like the idea that someone comes in with hidden agenda's and way too much baggage, and for what? What is the gain? Becoming famous, infamous... or just slanderous... oh well truth will always rise to the top.
I got to thinking as I was reading those census's yesterday, trying to remember what I could about my grade school bus driver, so I googled what I could remember, and guess what, I think I found him, or who he was.
I believe his name was Roy Luebben and he and his wife, Lulu had a ranch called LuRoy, I haven't found a picture of him yet, but from what I remember and what was posted in her 2003 obit. (sob)
I loved that old guy, its so funny to think back on him and my constant questions, he nicknamed me Busybee and one time a boy stole my tiny little ball. The next day he handed me one just like it, except it was twice as big and said 'well it grew'.
Anyway he and his wife were very involved in Pioneer Days and the Burro Races and such. Now it all makes more sense. He was also part of the Sheriff's rescue team, going in and finding hapless Dutch hunters.
Anyway, since I read the whole census, I'm going to post page 97 which has the Starr brothers on it.
Notice other names that are interesting, including variations of Bark.
Bear in mind that this is a typed copy and I haven't found a photocopy of the original yet.

Yavapai Arizona Territory 1870.

' Gavilan 10 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 37
. Mary Ann 13 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 36
A*rathy J 21 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 30
Adams J 28 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 22
Affute J W 27 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 20
Akers J B 25 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 20
Aldi J 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 11
Alex Theodore 21 Prussia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 40
Alexander Catherine 41 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 19
Alexander E M 19 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 20
Alexander Ellen 14 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 22
Alexander Henry 7 Kansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 24
Alexander James 12 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 23
Alexander John 3 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 25
Alexander Malcomb 24 Canada Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 8
Alexander Mary 17 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 21
Alexander T M 48 Indiana Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 18
Allengraker John 45 New Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 29
Alouraso M 52 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 1
Alsiro P 22 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 14
Alsop J F 40 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 10
Alters L J 35 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 22
Alverez J 32 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 14
Alverson M 27 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 38
Alvirez R 14 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 17
Alviso J 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 40
Alyres Joseph 37 New Jersay Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 8
Amerman J 52 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 31
Amerman J 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 32
Anderson J A 32 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 17
Andrews A W 21 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 1
Andrews G T 40 Maine Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 33
Anesita R 35 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 30
Anschutz Mary 18 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 5
Arnold J S 24 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 19
Arnold W 33 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 18
Arroyers A 21 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 31
Arvis M 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 2
Averish C 27 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 35
Averish E 10 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 39
Averish F 19 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 37
Averish F 8 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 40
Averish F 4/12 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 2
Averish J 21 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 36
Averish J A 33 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 33
Averish M 47 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 34
Averish R 15 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 38
Averish R 4 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 1
Avery J 45 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 10

Baker E K 33 Maine Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 23
Baker P 27 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 32
Baker P 27 Prussia Yavapai pg0104b.txt 104b 37
Banaburger Alonzo 16 Oregon Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 2
Bargue Thomas 22 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 2
Barnum F 38 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 5
Barnum H E 4 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 7
Barnum J J 21 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 6
Barnum L A 2 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 8
Barritt W L 26 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 28
Barsilone F 24 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 9
Bartlett T H 22 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 36
Bartz Charles 40 Prussia Yuma pg0133b.txt 134b 15
Bavis J 33 N York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 7
Beal E H 32 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 23
Beal Sarah M 18 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 24
Beck A C 28 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 28
Bell T 35 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 6
Bernard Chas 32 Lousiana Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 5 Berry G E 37 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 23
Bertram B 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 33
Bertram C 24 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 34
Bertram F 4/12 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 35
Beyaleky G 24 Poland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 3
Bol*ke Henry 23 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 4
Borsmann G W 21 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 8
Bower N W 38 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 20
Boyce James 35 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 10
Boyd Wm 25 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 8
Breir Thomas 27 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 4
Brooks Bessy 3 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 39
Brooks Hezekiah 45 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 37
Brooks Mary C 30 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 38
Buck G W 22 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 30
Buckman Celia R 1 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 35
Buckman J J 46 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 30
Buckman John J, Jr 7 Kansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 32
Buckman Mary Ann 5 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 33
Buckman Sarah 30 Indiana Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 31
Buckman Thomas P 3 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 34
Bustamante F 45 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 38
Byer Jacob 27 Switzerland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 2

Cahill Martin 26 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 3
Callahan James 35 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 25
Cameron Allen 42 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 36
Canlon James 24 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 4
Carpenter S C 30 New Hampshire Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 12
Carrigan T 22 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 22
Castro J 32 Spain Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 33
Castro P 40 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 34
Clakey Robert 21 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 39
Collins M 44 Canada Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 26
Collvein Wm 23 Vermont Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 16
Conklin James 22 Vermont Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 10
Conklin W H 27 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 20
Considine M 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 4
Cook W M 21 Maryland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 32
Coseronia J 20 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 12
Costinaro M 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 37
Cottrell D 48 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 27
Cowley F 25 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 23
Cox J 43 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 3
Cox John F 31 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 33
Crafford P 45 Ken Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 17
Cram R 38 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 27
Crothus Thomas 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 32
Culbertson F A 23 Indiana Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 5
Cullen Rich A 24 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 10
Curry James 25 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 40
Curtiss G W 33 Maine Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 15
Daly Peter F 35 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 6
Danney J 40 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 3
Darson H 34 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 15
Davis C 30 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 25
Davis C C 1 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 29
Davis J F 5 California Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 27
Davis M N 3 California Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 28
Davis R 25 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 26
Delapes Henry 28 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 26
Dellunso G E 25 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 29
Denslinger J 39 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 30
Dickenson Alice E 15 California Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 3
Dickenson Elizabeth 33 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 2
Dickenson I Q 47 Virginia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 1
Dies P 20 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 6
Dill Vincent 22 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 1
Donnelly James 21 Scotland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 2
Drelen Harl 26 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 37
Droyer John 26 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 27
Drum W H 22 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 28
Drummond Leroy 21 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 12
Duncan Charles 34 France Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 26
Dunn James 27 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 5
Dupper D 36 France Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 1
Duval James 21 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 34

Edgar G M 28 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 24
Eich T 41 Prussia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 13
Elepeshire A 18 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 24
Ellis John 27 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 29
Ellis T J 25 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 6
Elrose C 24 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 20
Espinosa J 23 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 18
Fanary F 20 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 2
Fansel Christian 24 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 31
Farrelty T 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 6
Finnegan Peter 27 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 38
Fireman Pat 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 12
Fitzgerald M 27 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 32
Fitzgerald T 25 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 3
Flannery E 23 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 25
Flores T 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 3
Flores T 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 22
Floris B C 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 24
Floris F 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 23
Floris F 6 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 25
Floris R 4 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 26
Ford F 34 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 25
Forde W W 34 Scotland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 29
Fox James 24 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 6
Franco A 24 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 38
Fry M 24 Bohemia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 3
Furgeson C L 36 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 21

Gansier Henry 37 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 26
Garcia O 45 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 4
Gardiner G 21 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 24
Garera S 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 5
Garritsia G 56 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 9
Garsight R 32 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 19
Gibson Edward 26 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 33
Glasgow J B 40 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 12
Glynn T F 31 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 32
Gonzalles G 40 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 28
Gorera S 27 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 13
Gorman Charles 26 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 13
Gow W 28 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 21
Grant N R 38 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 33
Gray C N 37 Florida Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 14
Gray J A 48 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 20
Gray M A 24 Arkansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 15
Green F 3 Arkansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 17
Green M 27 Arkansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 16
Green M 6/12 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 18
Green Wm 24 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 39
Greenhow A G 21 Arkansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 19
Greenwood J 29 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 24
Griffin Martin 22 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 34
Griffin N P 40 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 29
Gwyr H C 24 Maryland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 7
Gyalco Wm 17 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 17

Hall J 22 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 13
Hamilton O Y 31 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 14
Handcock W A 39 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 31
Harris Wm 29 Texas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 1
Harrison J 24 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 10
Hart J H 22 New Hampshire Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 26
Harvey P A 30 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 21
Harvey T S 22 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 5
Hasson N D 26 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 11
Hathaway C E 36 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 7
Hays J C 21 Scotland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 4
Henderson J M 40 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 12
Henry Chas E 21 Sweden Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 38
Herbert Henry 35 Virginia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 40
Heskey John 22 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 16
Hockwood G 21 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 27
Hoffman J H 21 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 26
Holstein K 26 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 8
Hornaker F R 21 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 15
Houry George 31 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 10
House F 22 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 19
House W T 22 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 34
Howe Wm 53 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 7
Hussey B A 28 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 11
Hym Wm 21 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 25
Hyms George 23 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 23
Jackson Faustine 7 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 26
Jackson J C 21 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 27
Jackson W A 21 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 11
Jacox H H 37 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 9
Jany J 25 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 9
Jeffrey Wm 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 37
Jucois L 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 18
Kaston G 21 Indiana Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 28
Kearney John 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 18
Kelly Dan 32 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 1
Kelly J W 23 Indiana Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 29
Kelly John 27 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 8
Kennedy L 40 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 27
Keys James 21 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 6
Kimball N S 45 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 11
Klein John 25 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 13
Korsilons J 38 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 11
Korsilons S 32 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 10
La Bameby Amos 27 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 28
La Raohe R 29 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 9
La Rue G W 21 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 7
Lasenburg M 28 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 4
Lasson J 33 Denmark Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 4
Leary Cornelius 35 Conn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 11
Leonard T 40 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 9
LeRoy James 25 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 22
Lisne A 40 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 21
Lisne J 21 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 20
Little J 38 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 5
Logan B 31 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 5
Lomis A 26 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 16
Lopez L 35 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 6
Lopez M 28 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 40
Lopez R 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 15
Lyman George T 33 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 10
Maddin James 28 Canada Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 35
Maddox John 38 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 32
Maddox Wm 25 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 31
Mahony J 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 31
Manly J 25 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 28
Marker Y 24 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 21
Marmaduke A J 45 Virginia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 25
Marshall James 21 Scotland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 35
Martin S 24 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 37
Martinela J 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 12
Martinez G 24 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 8
Martinez P 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 39
Matthew E P 25 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 35
Mayerby N 42 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 37
McCabe James 27 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 12
McCann John 23 Mississippi Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 11
McCardy J J 21 Indiana Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 29
McCarthy M M 27 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 19
McCarthy P 24 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 13
McClutchen A B 25 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 28
McCormack J W 24 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 9
McCormick James 40 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 39
McDowall James 21 Canada Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 38
McGoldrick T 28 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 2
McKenizer John 24 Scotland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 34
McKenny J B 48 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 23
McQuaid J F 24 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 30
McSaley Wm 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 14
Mead Wm H 21 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 21
Melvin Joseph 38 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 1
Melvin S J 33 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 2
Meranda D 4/12 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 21
Meranda G 10 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 20
Meranda J 29 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 18
Meranda T 27 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 19
Messer J L 32 Alabama Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 2
Meyell J 27 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 12
Miller G H 23 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 18
Miller George 27 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 9
Millerkin R 45 South Carolina Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 18
Mireno F 29 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 28
Mireno &nbsp

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

I'm going to assume there is a part 2 to that list, since it doesn't go past "m", but, I think Star/starr is NOT the right name.

The Starar brothers, Jacob and Andrew, are in the 1860 California census, and the 1870 Arizona and New Mexico Territory census. I am sure they are the same, as it is 10 years difference, and their ages are exactly 10 years older.

Beth



PS - I forgot to add - sometimes, if you want to - oh, sell a book or something - having your name known might be a GOOD thing - many folks like to read books from the ancestors of famous people.

 

[Gossamer]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

RATS, it didn't all go in the message... so here is the second half.
Mireno F 29 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 28
Mireno P 26 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 27
Monroe G 22 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 35
Montica J 35 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 7
Moore Wm 29 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 32
Morall A 24 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 9
Morano A 20 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 4
Morano F 20 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 5
Morano J 15 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 3
Morano J E 5 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 6
Moreno P 32 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 30
Moretice D 28 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 8
Moretice M 4/12 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 9
Morilis R 29 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 27
Morris James 21 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 8
Mortis J 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 8
Moss I 50 Ken Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 16
Moyan Wm 35 Alabama Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 40
Moyer Conrad 28 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 38
Murphy James 24 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 14
Musherd Phillip 26 Prussia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 20
Myers Wm 39 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 13

Nichels Joseph 24 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 37
Nichols H W 33 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 9
Nolan John M 24 Iowa Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 13
Nome Wm 29 Texas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 39
Norjay A 23 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 36

O Brien John 29 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 14
O Reily Patrick 24 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 37
O Shea Mike 24 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 15
Octeil W 24 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 30
Ollis John 21 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 22
Olvary J M 34 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 24
Orizan F 26 Texas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 11
Osborn J P 55 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 11
Osborn J W 16 Iowa Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 13
Osborn N F 14 Iowa Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 14
Osborn P E 49 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 12
Osborn P K 11 Iowa Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 15
Osborn R G 8 Iowa Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 16
Osborn W N 28 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 17
Otois J 40 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 7
Pardec R 34 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 18
Parker Geo P 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 23
Patterson A 8 Arkansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 15
Patterson A E 2 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 14
Patterson B F 36 Alabama Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 11
Patterson E J 33 Alabama Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 12
Patterson M L 6/12 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 13
Peck Ed G 40 Canada Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 7
Peralta F 23 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 39
Peralta G 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 10
Perkins C R 21 Mississippi Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 24
Perosa N 26 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 29
Peterson Nicholas 37 Denmark Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 7
Pierce N P 40 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 30
Pike George 39 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 13
Pincus Adolph 24 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 40
Pitman J 23 Canada Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 10
Pointer Wm 62 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 27
Porter Amy 9 East Indies Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 16
Porter Charles 8 East Indies Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 17
Porter Ellen 41 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 14
Porter Henry 12 East Indies Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 15
Pref Adolph 24 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 18
Prenner H W E 33 Belgium Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 15
Prescott George 21 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 111
Prescott J 26 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 23
Presser Phillip 31 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 16
Price Wm 26 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 33

Quinn Jeremiah 31 Scotland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 25

Rake T 33 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 14
Rein J 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 13
Reinhart J N 24 Penn Yavapai pg0104b.txt 105b 13
Reis B 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 3
Reisbeck Adam 38 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 8
Rek Henry 29 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 17
Reves J 43 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 7
Revois Joseph 41 Maine Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 28
Rey G 23 Scotland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 36
Reynold E 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 34
Rhodes W 22 Illinois Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 31
Ria J 22 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 4
Riall P 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 23
Ridley R J 22 Alabama Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 35
Riligen L 20 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 40
Rincon Robt 28 Scotland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 9
Rinden H J 24 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 30
Rivas D 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 39
Rivas F 35 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 38
Rivas S 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 7
Rodgers J B 21 Arkansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 22
Roe G W 45 Virginia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 26
Romero A 20 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 19
Rommanckercher H 31 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 24
Rost J C 30 Maryland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 21
Rourke Frank 21 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 24
Rowley J W 28 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 36
Royce Chas 24 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 17
Russell John 27 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 7
S. Clair A S 23 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 38
Santess E J 22 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 19
Santez G 20 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 17
Satia F 35 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 13
Schaler J A 37 Switzerland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 26
Scott Adam 32 Scotland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 16
Scott Francis 18 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 17
Scott Margaret 2 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 18
Scott Wm N 3/12 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 19
Sergeant T W 27 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 14
Sharpe Wm 39 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 20
Sheppard D A 23 Connecticut Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 17
Shortell A T 4/12 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 29
Shortell C 29 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 26
Shortell E 8 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 27
Shortell T 34 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 25
Shortell W 5 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 28
Simmons John 60 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 1
Simmons John 30 Arkansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 15
Simmons John Lee 6 Kansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 6
Simmons Margaret A 8 Kansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 5
Simmons Mary 65 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 2
Simmons Mary J 11 Texas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 4
Simmons Thomas 33 Arkansas Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 3
Smith B C 37 Vermont Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 12
Smith B W 27 Alabama Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 31
Smith John 36 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 20
Smithson A G 25 Virginia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 8
Snowden H 39 England Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 37
Sonora A 35 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 6
Sonyata C 40 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 22
Sorena A 35 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 5
Sount George 43 Canada Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 4
Springer Wm C 24 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 19
Starr A 47 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 35
Starr J 49 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 34
Starr John 37 Belgium Yavapai pg0082a.txt 82a 7
Starr L 10 California Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 36
Stenson J 35 Canada Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 9
Stockingro B 29 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 29
Storey J F 37 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 25
Summers H B 47 Kentucky Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 14
Sweeny Thomas 25 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 30
Swilling G 5 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 34
Swilling J W 40 South Carolina Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 32
Swilling M 2 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 35
Swilling T 26 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 33

Thomas Wm 28 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 10
Trotter P H 24 Iowa Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 6
Turner Ezekiel 58 Tennessee Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 40

Valensalis N 18 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 16
Valensalis Y 22 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 15
Valensuella J 26 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103a 16
Valiscas F 25 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 35
Valiscas R 30 Mexico Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 36
Van Prusen Vestor 2 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 5
Vance A B 34 North Carolina Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 22
Vance J 34 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 103b 21
VanMall J H 22 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 31
Vochl Andrew 27 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100b 36

Waechter David 29 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 3
Walker J R 37 Missouri Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 16
Walters D H 25 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 1
Walters John 25 Penn Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 21
Walters Van 21 North Carolina Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 22
Ward Wm 26 New York Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 4
Watson R O S 38 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 24
Watt J 68 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 1
Welch J 37 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 39
Werner P 30 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 1
Wettmer P 31 Wisconsin Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 2
Wildman H 25 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 32
Wilkinson James 36 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97a 39
Williams G W 47 New Jersey Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102a 31
Williamson C J 21 Canada Yavapai pg0097a.txt 101a 11
Wilson G A 52 Virginia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 104a 5
Wotherbee E 22 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99a 40
Wright E H 22 Mass Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 33
Yooll P 28 Ireland Yavapai pg0097a.txt 99b 12
Young Charles 30 Ohio Yavapai pg0097a.txt 100a 36
Young T M 4 Arizona Yavapai pg0097a.txt 102b 22
Youngblood Wm 30 Prussia Yavapai pg0097a.txt 98a 10
Yuetze James 36 Prussia Pima pg0011a.txt 13B 23

Ziker Joseph 23 Germany Yavapai pg0097a.txt 97b 27

janiece

 

[Springfield]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

.....I think Star/Starr is NOT the right name.

The Starr brothers, Jacob and Andrew, are in the 1860 California census, and the 1870 Arizona and New Mexico Territory census. I am sure they are the same, as it is 10 years difference, and their ages are exactly 10 years older......

We haven't seen 'Star' yet, but we can certainly pin 'Starar', 'Starrar' and 'Starr' (the most interesting) to the same two brothers beginning in 1860 and ending in 1880 in the public records. As mentioned earlier, the emigration records seem to indicate that their German name was most likely 'Stoehrer' when they disembarked. As far as the name changes are concerned, the only point of interest would be who initiated the changes - the brothers (why?) or the bureaucrats (common occurance). Seems like all the juice has been wrung out of this topic, unless one wished to link these 'Starrs' to other 'Starrs' elsewhere.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Springfield,

Here's and interesting site:

http://sunnyfortuna.com/history/fortuna/

And a little more:

[Love that shadow effect on the "Star Hotel" lettering. And check out that period on the end! This two-story building was built in 1876 by W.J. McKenna, and was named after Andrew and Jacob Starrar of Mad River, who raised the elk that likely was Fortuna's meat supply at this time. There's a connection here to the Lost Dutchman's Mine, looks like Andrew may even have owned most of the town at one time and sold part of it to Henry Rohner, we're researching it, will post more info when we have it.
Main floor from left to right: Candy store, North Drugstore, Star Hotel lobby (the rooms were upstairs), Newell & McIntyre General Store. The Star Hotel was a popular destination in Fortuna from the 1880's to the 1950's and was known for its fine dining and friendly service. A journey from Eureka to Fortuna around the turn of the century was not just a little jaunt down the road. A trip would take hours and many times people from surrounding towns would spend the night not wanting to make the trip twice in one day. It was also used as a meeting and resting spot for those coming into town for the day. The hotel went out of business in the mid-1950's. This building is still being used today by a number of businesses.
From the Redwood Empire Association Booklet, early 1940s: "A popular hotel located in the center of Fortuna on the Redwood Highway. Steam heated and with all conveniences. A good coffee shop in connection catering to tourists and vacationists. Excellent steelhead fishing in the Eel River, nearby. Rates: $1.00 to $1.50 without bath; $1.75 to $2.50 with bath. Open all year."]

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Springfield]

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Thanks Joe, good link. I like the old buildings from that era - they generally seem comfortable to be in. I owned a 1908 brick house with 10' ceilings and big rooms in Silver City for quite a while. It was a money pit of course but I enjoyed it. Fortunately I sold it before the big crash. The Californians who bought it said, "We couldn't believe we got it for such a good price", and I said, "I can't believe I sold it for somuch".

 

[markmar]

Some tips to decrypt a map with "Google earth "
All maps are 2D and must to look vertically to the ground . After , with the clues and the map , you must match the map with the landmarks , of course from the altitude who match better . Be careful because some maps are reverse , like the " Perfil " or " Waltz " . Usually , the human face or animals on the maps , looking to the treasure . In the " Ruth-Gonzales " map "The face " look and says : " Below , between the peaks " , and in the " Peralta horse " map the treasure is in the horse mouth becouse the horse grazing south from the " river " . The word " RIO " means " river " and "reverse " in the Spanish- Mexican maps .
I hope to help you a little , and thank`s for your attention .

 

[JackH]

Thank You markmar.

You have brought attention to the difficulties of producing and propagating a thread.

One of the more unexpected difficulties of starting this "Interest" is putting it all into
words that can be easily understood explaining the map's and the images with my
interpretation.

Recently I have come back to this Thread to review my posts, it took a couple of days
to accomplish that, and this Thread only has 17 pages.

In REPLY to your Post, I would refer you to go to page 10 post #195 and take a look
at the relationship of the map and images I have presented on Red Mountain. I have
only One interest, and that is Red Mountain. You will find in this Thread the Heart Stone
but only as it relates to Red Mountain/Mt Mc Dowell.

Because this thread has an overwhelming number of hits, I have created one of several
new Threads to explain more of each of the Maps I have already alluded to. This newest
Thread is about Map #10 further definitively proving my point, Red Mountain (LDM).

I invite you to "LDM why you can't get it ! MAP #10".

In the mean time I will examine your overlay........Jack