Jesse James Treasures: Do They Likely Still Exist?

[PirateLabs]

OK, SORRY; I usually write it et. al.; had me confused...

Since it is two words (meaning "and others") it should be written as two words as you have done.

Bill

 

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[Kace]

Jeepers! I've been spelling it incorrectly for years!! Learn something new everyday! Rebs Right...this time. lol

Thanks Pirate!
Kace

 

[Kace]

You are correct... just be CAREFUL! CSA/KGC were still "active" up to @ 1920's.

+1 on that...I'd say CSA still active today in many areas...Anyway be careful!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Way too "Political Topic"; do not "go there"...

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

You are correct... just be CAREFUL! CSA/KGC were still "active" up to @ 1920's.

So i would take it that WW1 would have depleted the ranks of new generation of sentinels, along with WW2 taking its toll on that generation. I had also read somewhere on Tnet, that some of the CSA soldiers had taken jobs as surveyors after the war. Which is very interesting, because i swear some of the cache sites out here have been marked around the late 1800,early 1900 hundreds. One even has a 1912 survey mark. I had thought they may have had KGC/CSA connection.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HA! It gets BETTER... BBL!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

NOW! Based on my R & I, MANY of these small communities CREATED their own MUTUAL AID SOCIETY/BENEFIT SOCIETY with INITIATION FEES, etc. to help each community member "qualified". "Google" Benefit Society... THESE Mutual Aid Societies later became INSURANCE COMPANIES! Good example would be WOODMEN OF THE WORLD... WOODMEN LIFE Insurance; ponder THAT a bit.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Now then... JJ & Gangs were robbing banks, etc. in the Mid-West & West to Fund $$$$$$$$$$$ to towns with MAS/BS for their communities; it was a CSA/KGC "Objective". In Omaha, Nebraska... INSURANCE COMPANIES! (MHO).

 

[Kace]

NOW! Based on my R & I, MANY of these small communities CREATED their own MUTUAL AID SOCIETY/BENEFIT SOCIETY with INITIATION FEES, etc. to help each community member "qualified". "Google" Benefit Society... THESE Mutual Aid Societies later became INSURANCE COMPANIES! Good example would be WOODMEN OF THE WORLD... WOODMEN LIFE Insurance; ponder THAT a bit.

I Completely Agree WOW should be analyzed...But we can't jump to implications on every Tombstone and it's meaning. An example to alluding to meaning would be J Sterling Morton's in NE. The stone was erected before he died, true....For his wife. Not because the KGC did it for him. I'm not saying Morton couldn't of been connected but let's research everything.

I've also got literature of every animal, plant, symbol, tree and log shape and meanings of all that they used. Great Companies!

The other awesome research tool of WOW and MWOW is they kept records. Some of my family used them and have stones like Morton's. I can go to the cemeteries that would typically have civil war veterans that could be connected and take pics if they are not online or Have fam do it. Also those after the war that are prominent and Local to me.

I have close family in Omaha, Nebraska City, Lincoln and also Council Bluffs Iowa and all are confederate to the core. They all ended up there because of Bridge Building the family does and has forever. They farm and have cattle as well. Grandparents would extended stay there at times. Still have a house in Bennington they used when up there.

 

[Kace]

NOW! Based on my R & I, MANY of these small communities CREATED their own MUTUAL AID SOCIETY/BENEFIT SOCIETY with INITIATION FEES, etc. to help each community member "qualified". "Google" Benefit Society... THESE Mutual Aid Societies later became INSURANCE COMPANIES! Good example would be WOODMEN OF THE WORLD... WOODMEN LIFE Insurance; ponder THAT a bit.

Mutual Aide Societies and Trusts in would be great to investigate!! Time to find the old ledgers!!

 

[Kace]

You guys watch Comanche Man Tonight? Val Kilmer is in it. About Texas Rangers... good stuff!

Today was company Thanksgiving dinner for operators and drivers... I can't seem to get off the couch and quit watching this movie...lol!

haha...Its Comanche MOON..not Man!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The "MOON" (circle) is a Treasure Sign for HUGE Cache; on Comanche "Land"...

 

[sdcfia]

Good ideal. Have a mine claim out west. Desolated , Digging large holes, wagons coming and going, tools, men,guns, dynamite.You could cache all kinds of supply stuff, guns,gun powder,tools,wagons disassembled, horse mule tack. It would be a good cover all normal activity for miners. And the mine claim owners name could be coded and on record for permanent time.There's already ancient gold mines and caches out here to add to the caches. It would be good cache sites. I may have to look at some sites out here in a differant way now.

IMO, you are right smack on the money, dog, in all aspects. In your neck of the woods (SW New Mexico according to your profile), a guy named C. Amory Stevens fits the "KGC" mold quite nicely, as does George Hearst (William Randolph Hearst's daddy) and others. Check out Stevens and his daughter's histories in the mining districts there. And whispers about Hearst's activities in Pinos Altos are quite interesting too. There are innumerable caching opportunities in old mines in the area, not to mention the mines themselves that produced a lotta wealth to cache. Stevens was one of the richest men in America, but when he died in 1921, 95% of his estate (worth a billion $ in today's money) could not be located - other than a nice big bundle set aside for his daughter Kate, a force to be reckoned with herself. Research the original owners of patented claims in the area and you'll possibly generate a roster of "KGC" maybes. As in all conspiracy analysis - follow the money.

Also, concerning JJ himself, old rumors and accounts of his presence and activities also abound in your area - Hillsboro, Steeple Rock and the Silver City area. In fact, an ancient old cowboy friend of mine (now deceased, whose daddy knew and searched with John Trammel for an alleged old JJ cache near Calsbad NM) claims that JJ was a silent owner of a hotel in Silver City. True or false? Hard to say.

Ancient mines and caches? Remember, the "KGC" had an alleged reputation of being the best "treasure hunters" in the world. Food for thought.

 

[sdcfia]

So i would take it that WW1 would have depleted the ranks of new generation of sentinels, along with WW2 taking its toll on that generation. I had also read somewhere on Tnet, that some of the CSA soldiers had taken jobs as surveyors after the war. Which is very interesting, because i swear some of the cache sites out here have been marked around the late 1800,early 1900 hundreds. One even has a 1912 survey mark. I had thought they may have had KGC/CSA connection.

Good points again, dog. IMO, many caches were relocated, augmented and brandished with new cover stories in the 1930s, for various reasons. In doing so, IMO, the need for sentinels was eliminated because of the new caches' locations (very restricted access for snoops) and most importantly, because of the bogus clues and signs created to send would be searchers in wrong directions.

Your observation re surveyors is also correct, IMO. However, be careful about the old marked stones you find. Remember, before the days of rebar and alcaps, land surveyors frequently marked property corners with chiseled stones. In fact, right now, my searching partner and I are volunteering to flag property lines for a bunch of patented mining claims newly acquired by a monastery in the hills above Silver City. The original corner stones seem like "treasure code" to many - for example, "1211 - 4 - 3" carved on sides of a prominent rock. This is not a treasure clue, but the legal corner of Mineral Survey 1211, corner 4 of one claim and corner 3 of another. Same goes for mysterious X's found carved here and there - usually some sort of control point an old surveyor used. These discoveries can be researched if you care to take the time.

That said, think about this. If you wanted to cache valuables in some obscure site, who better to locate it exactly for you than a land surveyor? There are many ways to do this using the Township grids in use all over America (thanks to Thomas Jefferson, who invented the system).

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Thanks sdcfia, Iam going to look at that stuff much closer now. I think it will show as very likely connection, to much of it all fits. From the original source of wealth,to the ease of recovery and caching in those days. All under the disguise of mining.Thanks.

 

[Kace]

Good points again, dog. IMO, many caches were relocated, augmented and brandished with new cover stories in the 1930s, for various reasons. In doing so, IMO, the need for sentinels was eliminated because of the new caches' locations (very restricted access for snoops) and most importantly, because of the bogus clues and signs created to send would be searchers in wrong directions.

Your observation re surveyors is also correct, IMO. However, be careful about the old marked stones you find. Remember, before the days of rebar and alcaps, land surveyors frequently marked property corners with chiseled stones. In fact, right now, my searching partner and I are volunteering to flag property lines for a bunch of patented mining claims newly acquired by a monastery in the hills above Silver City. The original corner stones seem like "treasure code" to many - for example, "1211 - 4 - 3" carved on sides of a prominent rock. This is not a treasure clue, but the legal corner of Mineral Survey 1211, corner 4 of one claim and corner 3 of another. Same goes for mysterious X's found carved here and there - usually some sort of control point an old surveyor used. These discoveries can be researched if you care to take the time.

That said, think about this. If you wanted to cache valuables in some obscure site, who better to locate it exactly for you than a land surveyor? There are many ways to do this using the Township grids in use all over America (thanks to Thomas Jefferson, who invented the system).

I Love This!...What better THing to Volunteer for! Help out a monastery, get very familiar with old surveyors marks and hunt at the same time!

This sounds Very exciting and in a great area! I'd love to hear more about your discoveries as far as terrain and pre-existing markers!

Kace

 

[sdcfia]

I Love This!...What better THing to Volunteer for! Help out a monastery, get very familiar with old surveyors marks and hunt at the same time!

This sounds Very exciting and in a great area! I'd love to hear more about your discoveries as far as terrain and pre-existing markers!

Kace

Yeah, it's fun. Below is a picture of the place I took a couple weeks ago from our work zone.

We've found about a dozen marked stones thus far. When they were originally placed, they were easy to find as the mountains were all but stripped bare - the trees used for mining timbers, and the smaller stuff used as fuel wood. Now the mountains are covered with Ponderosa Pine, Juniper and extremely dense oak brush - making it difficult to locate some of the stones. I'll try to take some pics in order to show what these marked stones look like. One of the US Mineral Surveyors, Ricard Powell, who was active here in the 1880s, carved beautiful corner monuments and created very artistic plats.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So, it IS possible that SOME of these mines started out as ppl looking for "JJ Stashes/Caches"; POSSIBLY 1st Degree KGC Knights who "passed down" IMPORTANT info to "qualified" miners, who dug on & on through the years... WHEW! ONE very important Mine Inspector was John P. Risque, an "Indian Agent" in the SW America, & BROTHER of James Beverly Risque of the BEALE TREASURE "Fame"; HE was killed by the "Indians"... in 1884, I think.

 

[Kace]

Yeah, it's fun. Below is a picture of the place I took a couple weeks ago from our work zone.

We've found about a dozen marked stones thus far. When they were originally placed, they were easy to find as the mountains were all but stripped bare - the trees used for mining timbers, and the smaller stuff used as fuel wood. Now the mountains are covered with Ponderosa Pine, Juniper and extremely dense oak brush - making it difficult to locate some of the stones. I'll try to take some pics in order to show what these marked stones look like. One of the US Mineral Surveyors, Ricard Powell, who was active here in the 1880s, carved beautiful corner monuments and created very artistic plats.

View attachment 1516871

GORGEOUS and What a Playground!!

Thanks for posting that and I'm looking forward to more!!

The WPA projects and locals working for WPA in my neck o the woods uncovered and relocated a lot of stuff. Most were relocated using different markings on private land holdings. Same with COE... that's why I like hearing and seeing firsthand from people what we're used in different areas.

One of the first things I found years ago was a watch winder about 2' from an Old surveyors stone. New surveys had been done obviously. It was on a tree, square nailed into the 2'oclock position if looking at a watch. My grandparents had shown it to me when I was little...I had forgotten about it even though they said Not To Forget. lol!

As strange as I know this will sound, I was putting up new electric fencing for the cattle and I smelled my grandmothers perfume..she wasn't with me of course, but I looked around and there was that winder on the tree. It's funny how different senses will trigger memories.

I didn't have my md with me but I did have this metal rod/probe I always carried with me for snakes and rocks and leaves they could hide under that was about 4' long. I went on with the fencing and kept thinking about the winder and different things my family and older friends of theirs had said. When I finished that section I went back and started running the probe in the ground all around the tree til I was about two foot out, I had made a half a circle of the tree when I hit something that I thought sounded like a rock. It was. It was about the size of a volleyball and sitting solidly on top of a #2 crock.

That was fun. Once those new surveys were done, nobody would have had a reason to change them.

Love hearing your stories and seeing the pics!

Kace

 

[Kace]

Maybe in Florida... "insult" in Virginia; even Jeff Foxworthy doesn't use it in Virginia; he spoke at Liberty University, here in Lynchburg, Va. BOTH Staff & Students pack "HEAT", with concealed weapon permits. I DO have Jeff's REDNECK DICTIONARY 1 & 2; heh...

Sorry to bring this up again.., But it's bothered me. I have no idea of the dynamics between the Beale folks. I just wanted to say that apparently what's the norm or acceptable as jokes in some areas aren't funny in other areas and it takes others to let people know it's offensive. Thank You.

I really haven't had much interaction with ECS, but the examples he used as far as Bubba, Southern Ingenuity and Southern Intuition are said jokingly and without malice Here. I've seen Foxworthy, Larry the Cable Guy and Ron White Here and they've all used those sayings...Like...Pull Your Skirt Up Nancy...Meaning.. Quit Being A Wuss. It's funny Here.

I'll try and not use slangs or sayings on Tnet because I really didn't know they were offensive in VA...Or anywhere else. I didn't know Foxworthy had stopped using them there either. Thanks for letting me know that Reb

I do not want to offend anyone at all by words that are insulting. Honestly, because I hear things like that so much, I Almost replied to ECS, "How could I forget Knights of SBPI" I really thought and still do, that on This thread ECS's comment was joking. I don't hang out with the Beale Crowd, I know very little of Beale Treasure and after reading it,way too many think they've solved it with nothing to show. To an outsider on that thread, too many jabs and distractions were thrown for me to keep track of everybody.

I don't know Justintime either, but I would of quit posting here a long time ago...he sure isn't getting much encouragement in his quest even thought he answers all questions and shows pics of what he's doing. What I got out of it is he's making his movements and discoveries known in case something happens to him. Hopefully I'll get to see if he's right or wrong in his beliefs...I enjoy his thought process, reasoning and documenting his actions to try and recover the BT. Just my thoughts.

Anyway, That's all I wanted to say on that...except, again I learn something new everyday, I like everyone's input on this thread and don't want it to end up like the Beale threads. We've all gotten along even when we've had differing opinions and thoughts and I don't want that to change on this thread.

Kace