Jesse James Treasures: Do They Likely Still Exist?

Rebel - KGC said:
There is a Coal Mountain Treasure in Georgia, I think...
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There's one in Tennessee too..I mean Coal Mountain...I don't know about treasure.

So, the thoughts on Vault Treasure would be to use an Existing Mine that's maybe been Abandoned? Closed? Or Bought/Currently Owned By A 'Friend' of like mind? Is that right?

On Any Vault/Depository 'I would think' having either a Railroad or River close by would be a necessity...Or having a way for a multitude of wagons to transfer the precious metals to. Is that right?

Railroad Lines were owned by like minded men and then families.

Then, if it was a previously working mine, having on site security in a watchmens house would not be unusual. Is that right?
 

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Maybe someone with better math than I can figure just how much some of these "Treasures" would weigh. What was the value of gold in 1860? Was a 20 dollar gold pc. worth 20 dollars in gold? Wasn't some of the Confederate treasury in kegs or barrels? Transported on a train then disappeared? I know desperate men can do amazing things but I doubt a horse or mule could carry a barrel of gold or silver, even put into packs. They would not be easy to transport. Not sure how much a horse or mule can pack but there is a limit, especially if you have far to travel. Gold wouldn't help if your animals are dead or broken down. A man can pack 100 pounds for awhile. Takes heck of a man to carry much more for very long.
When I was a kid a neighbor had a son that worked for Wells Fargo in St. Louis. He brought his folks a "chest" used for transporting valuables on a stage coach. Much bigger than you'd think and weighed at least 80 pounds. They didn't just throw that on a horse either. About the size of old steamer trunk and half it's height.
I just wondered if anyone has figured the weight of these things. A very big one would be hard to transport very far.
 

uglymailman said:
Maybe someone with better math than I can figure just how much some of these "Treasures" would weigh. What was the value of gold in 1860? Was a 20 dollar gold pc. worth 20 dollars in gold? Wasn't some of the Confederate treasury in kegs or barrels? Transported on a train then disappeared? I know desperate men can do amazing things but I doubt a horse or mule could carry a barrel of gold or silver, even put into packs. They would not be easy to transport. Not sure how much a horse or mule can pack but there is a limit, especially if you have far to travel. Gold wouldn't help if your animals are dead or broken down. A man can pack 100 pounds for awhile. Takes heck of a man to carry much more for very long.
When I was a kid a neighbor had a son that worked for Wells Fargo in St. Louis. He brought his folks a "chest" used for transporting valuables on a stage coach. Much bigger than you'd think and weighed at least 80 pounds. They didn't just throw that on a horse either. About the size of old steamer trunk and half it's height.
I just wondered if anyone has figured the weight of these things. A very big one would be hard to transport very far.
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Yes you are right. I know of one in Georgia they drove the train into the tunnel and blew both ends. May have done the same in Tennessee. They are easy to find but very difficult to recover.
 

They had a super good 2 hour show about J James today on the history channel
 

Hi Ug, I completely agree on transport, it would have to be done by rail or water for anything that substantial for any distance and terrain. I've lifted those old Wells Fargo strong boxes too and they are Not Light! lol! Probably why they were broken open the first chance they got. Even the locked bags used now are always cut, maybe to destroy evidence or to distribute the weight of the cash.

The $20 Double Eagle was worth $20 in 1849....It weighs 1.0750 Troy ounces or 33.4362 grams.

As far as the abandoned anthracite mine in TN, Assuming For A Minute Thats Its A Highly Probable Vault/Depositary I doubt that would be too big of a hurdle to get access to. I bet the state and county would welcome the cash from a split.
It's Not on Hallowed Ground.

That old mine is a GC site. NO on site premise security or staff..

Just to keep my questions and statements simple I'm posing them as If We All Knew this was a Vault/Depository and we've formed a Licensed Recovery Corp. and are going for it...Imagine this is our investors club BOD meeting...Everyone answer or comment please...You are the experts in research and recovery, so As A Vault Treasure Recovery Novice and Investor, I've Got More To Learn about the process from research to reward. Which means I'm an equal investor but I defer to your experience and expertise in this venture.

*How do we go about Proving there is a vault/depository where we want to excavate? Where did the information on this vault/depository come from originally?
**Do we have to provide Provenance from recognized history or reports? Do any entities accept Supposition?

*What type of Legal representation do we need to insure we get our pre-agreed to share of the recovery?
Which I assume would be the The First thing we do.

*What type of Bond and Insurance do we need?
**That would likely include all real property (land) we access or modify getting to and from the vault/depository and any employees or staff needed for excavation, security and recovery, contract specialists in mine structural safety, including carpenters, air quality and stabilization of surrounding land to support excavation.
**This would all be done prior to starting work, Right?

*Do we need to Reclaim the land after we are done no matter the outcome?

*Would we need a volunteer Fire Department on Site during the excavations?

*Do we need an Historical Archivist to document and record contents of the vault/depository before anything is removed?

* What would happen if Human Remains were found during excavation?
**Does the excavation stop until a coroner or archeologists complete an investigation?

*If the recovered treasure was proven or challenged to have come from any specific people, specific Southern or Northern government entities or public/private businesses, then what happens?

**Equipment...The equipment could come in by rail or water there... A small dual purpose backhoe/blade and front end loader and depending on terrain, maybe a rock truck unless the overburden could be dumped over a cliff edge...that equipment should handle a shaft mine...
**A structural mining specialist could determine what the mine and land could safely handle...Right?

Where to now or what's next?

Kace
 

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Kace said:
Hi Ug, I completely agree on transport, it would have to be done by rail or water for anything that substantial for any distance and terrain. I've lifted those old Wells Fargo strong boxes too and they are Not Light! lol! Probably why they were broken open the first chance they got. Even the locked bags used now are always cut, maybe to destroy evidence or to distribute the weight of the cash.

As far as the abandoned anthracite mine in TN, Assuming For A Minute Thats Its A Highly Probable Vault/Depositary I doubt that would be too big of a hurdle to get access to. I bet the state and county would welcome the cash from a split.
It's Not on Hallowed Ground.

That old mine is a GC site. NO on site premise security or staff..

Just to keep my questions and statements simple I'm posing them as If We All Knew this was a Vault/Depository and we've formed a Licensed Recovery Corp. and are going for it...Imagine this is our investors club BOD meeting...Everyone answer or comment please...You are the experts in research and recovery, so As A Vault Treasure Recovery Novice and Investor, I've Got More To Learn about the process from research to reward. Which means I'm an equal investor but I defer to your experience and expertise in this venture.

*How do we go about Proving there is a vault/depository where we want to excavate? Where did the information on this vault/depository come from originally?
**Do we have to provide Provenance from recognized history or reports? Do any entities accept Supposition?

*What type of Legal representation do we need to insure we get our pre-agreed to share of the recovery?
Which I assume would be the The First thing we do.

*What type of Bond and Insurance do we need?
**That would likely include all real property (land) we access or modify getting to and from the vault/depository and any employees or staff needed for excavation, security and recovery, contract specialists in mine structural safety, including carpenters, air quality and stabilization of surrounding land to support excavation.
**This would all be done prior to starting work, Right?

*Do we need to Reclaim the land after we are done no matter the outcome?

*Would we need a volunteer Fire Department on Site during the excavations?

*Do we need an Historical Archivist to document and record contents of the vault/depository before anything is removed?

* What would happen if Human Remains were found during excavation?
**Does the excavation stop until a coroner or archeologists complete an investigation?

*If the recovered treasure was proven or challenged to have come from any specific people, specific Southern or Northern government entities or public/private businesses, then what happens?

**Equipment...The equipment could come in by rail or water there... A small dual purpose backhoe/blade and front end loader and depending on terrain, maybe a rock truck unless the overburden could be dumped over a cliff edge...that equipment should handle a shaft mine...
**A structural mining specialist could determine what the mine and land could safely handle...Right?

Where to now or what's next?

Kace
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LOL! JJ, FJ, JFD, FD, KGC, CSA, Treasures? PROBABLY more on JJ & KGC around here... think he was known as "Greybeard" like "Blackbeard"... heh. Killing & burying treasures... AHOY!
 

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Rebel - KGC said:
LOL! JJ, FJ, JFD, FD, KGC, CSA, Treasures? PROBABLY more on JJ & KGC around here... think he was known as "Greybeard" like "Blackbeard"... heh. Killing & burying treasures... AHOY!
Click to expand...

So, you aren't thinking any major vault/depository, right?

Your feelings are that any hidden gold or silver would be on a smaller scale, when you said burying treasure? Probably in what rural woods were available and close to access then, right?

Thanks Matey!!
Kace
 

Kace said:
So, you aren't thinking any major vault/depository, right?

Your feelings are that any hidden gold or silver would be on a smaller scale, when you said burying treasure? Probably in what rural woods were available and close to access then, right?

Thanks Matey!!
Kace
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All of the KGC Depositories that I know of are huge. The smallest usually 30 to 40 tons. One such as Brentwood or a Super Depository is upwards of 1,000 tons or more. Now a robbery of JJ's Gang could be anywhere from $40,000 up to as much as $400,000. There was a $400,000 recovery of a JJ Cave near Gallatin, Tennessee which is north of Nashville, in the 1880's.
 

franklin said:
All of the KGC Depositories that I know of are huge. The smallest usually 30 to 40 tons. One such as Brentwood or a Super Depository is upwards of 1,000 tons or more. Now a robbery of JJ's Gang could be anywhere from $40,000 up to as much as $400,000. There was a $400,000 recovery of a JJ Cave near Gallatin, Tennessee which is north of Nashville, in the 1880's.
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Those are Huge Amounts!!

On the Brentwood, Super Depositary I asked a few Questions on How to Proceed with something like that if anyone was going to do an excavation and recovery... I just used Brentwood as an example. They are on page 62.

That's where your experience comes in, I'd like to learn about it.

Thanks franklin!
Kace
 

Kace said:
Those are Huge Amounts!!

On the Brentwood, Super Depositary I asked a few Questions on How to Proceed with something like that if anyone was going to do an excavation and recovery... I just used Brentwood as an example. They are on page 62.

That's where your experience comes in, I'd like to learn about it.

Thanks franklin!
Kace
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Well there are a few things left out. One it is not a poor man's recovery. Everything you listed is correct. You have to have all of that in place. You will need a massive amount of security protection and all of that has to be paid for before any treasure is recovered, during the recovery and about two or three years after the recovery. All of the treasure will have to be transferred to a secure location. The transportation which will have to be paid for and the building or vaults itself will have to be paid for. You are looking at maybe $10 to $20 Million Dollars in expenses before you will ever realize one dollar from the treasure. Need to be left to professionals and super rich sponsors or stock holders.
 

franklin said:
Well there are a few things left out. One it is not a poor man's recovery. Everything you listed is correct. You have to have all of that in place. You will need a massive amount of security protection and all of that has to be paid for before any treasure is recovered, during the recovery and about two or three years after the recovery. All of the treasure will have to be transferred to a secure location. The transportation which will have to be paid for and the building or vaults itself will have to be paid for. You are looking at maybe $10 to $20 Million Dollars in expenses before you will ever realize one dollar from the treasure. Need to be left to professionals and super rich sponsors or stock holders.
Click to expand...

Just using TN as an example, Would it have to stay there after recovery or could it be moved to another state?

How much total space do you think that would take to move and store?

Where did you find the information about this particular vault?

Thanks
Kace
 

Way too much red tape and hoops to jump through. You will be tied up in court proceedings for years. Oh, and they will want to do a 2 year study on the habitat of the blind albino cave cricket that has now taken up residence inside your vault.

Just my opinion.
 

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Kace said:
Just using TN as an example, Would it have to stay there after recovery or could it be moved to another state?

How much total space do you think that would take to move and store?

Where did you find the information about this particular vault?

Thanks
Kace
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I have maps from old websites. I believe one was the Old Treasurenet site. I wish I had links to it there was a lot of good information on it. But the maps can be found on this forum in the KGC Threads or on Internet KGC sites as well. If I could post mine I would. I will try. Brentwood2.jpgbrentwood 1878.jpgbrentwood tennessee.jpg
 

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franklin said:
I have maps from old websites. I believe one was the Old Treasurenet site. I wish I had links to it there was a lot of good information on it. But the maps can be found on this forum in the KGC Threads or on Internet KGC sites as well. If I could post mine I would. I will try.View attachment 1511553View attachment 1511554View attachment 1511559
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They came through..,

Thanks...Those look really similar to the maps Pastore/Brewer had copied from Houk/Dalton/Schrader... Are they associated with Houk/Dalton/Pastore/Schrader/Brewer?

IMG_0774.PNG
 

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Benjamin Gates said:
Way too much red tape and hoops to jump through. You will be tied up in court proceedings for years. Oh, and they will want to do a 2 year study on the habitat of the blind albino cave cricket that has now taken up residence inside your vault.

Just my opinion.
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lol!!...You are probably right BG!!
 

Kace said:
So, you aren't thinking any major vault/depository, right?

Your feelings are that any hidden gold or silver would be on a smaller scale, when you said burying treasure? Probably in what rural woods were available and close to access then, right?

Thanks Matey!!
Kace
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Not exactly... there ARE "Supers". Just indicating the EAST side, as does "franklin"... JJ/KGC involvement was HUGE! Out in the mid-west/west, Depositories were KGC, with "Graybeard" (JJ) in charge; Doc Roy Roush has GREAT info in his books!
 

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