Jesse James Treasures: Do They Likely Still Exist?

[Kace]

Where to, now...?

Well, I haven't read anything anyone has posted here that mentions the name Gould in relationship to Jesse W James. The Gould name could of been mentioned here as KGC, I don't know...I just haven't seen it in association with JWJ.

Jesse W. and Zee James had twin boys who died in infancy. Their names were Montgomery and Gould...

I'm a big believer that Christian names are given to children in honour of family and close friends or someone you admire and respect. Gould is not frequently used as a Christian Given Name.

Looking at him, and associates, as you probably know will land you back in my neck o the woods in Missouri...Along with other families that are really close to me.

Does the Gould name ring a bell?

Kace

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Nope...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I do have the Roster or Roll of all members of William Clarke Quantrill, William T. 'Bloody Bill' Anderson and George M. Todd handy here..I'll look real quick..

Under Quantrill, except for Jesse and Frank, there is only one other James,..Jason W....There have been claims that he is a cousin of JWJ, but those are false. He died in Texas in 1933, buried in NM. He was born in Lexington, MO. He was an officer, but is No Relation At All to Jesse and Frank James.

Under William T. 'Bloody Bill Anderson' there is a William James who was still living in 1911.

That's all the Partisan Rangers with the last name James...No Jere Miah, Jeremiah, Jerry etc

Kace

Well, it would be JESSE JAMES, as a Partisan Ranger... think he joined Q's Guerillas at 15 years of age...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Gould... did he have something to do with the planned KGC invasion of Mexico prior to the Confederate War...? JJ was too young for THAT! (1860).

 

[Kace]

Well, it would be JESSE JAMES, as a Partisan Ranger... think he joined Q's Guerillas at 15 years of age...

Right, There is no Jerimiah James.

Jason and William can be traced.. No more James in Partisan Rangers

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Clarify "Partisan Rangers"; "Q" or "Bloody Bill" Anderson...? Think "BBA" introduced JJ to the KGC; not certain, tho.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, I haven't read anything anyone has posted here that mentions the name Gould in relationship to Jesse W James. The Gould name could of been mentioned here as KGC, I don't know...I just haven't seen it in association with JWJ.

Jesse W. and Zee James had twin boys who died in infancy. Their names were Montgomery and Gould...

I'm a big believer that Christian names are given to children in honour of family and close friends or someone you admire and respect. Gould is not frequently used as a Christian Given Name.

Looking at him, and associates, as you probably know will land you back in my neck o the woods in Missouri...Along with other families that are really close to me.

Does the Gould name ring a bell?

Kace

ONLY Gould that I could find was the RR Baron, George Jay Gould (1864-1923); too young for the ORIGINAL plans of the KGC to invade Mexico (1860)... HOWEVER, could have planned to build Rail-Roads into Mexico (RR Baron for Missouri/Pacific RR & Texas/Pacific RR)... After 1882, JJ (as Jeremiah Mason James) could have dealings with Gould, dunno.

 

[Kace]

ONLY Gould that I could find was the RR Baron, George Jay Gould (1864-1923); too young for the ORIGINAL plans of the KGC to invade Mexico (1860)... HOWEVER, could have planned to build Rail-Roads into Mexico (RR Baron for Missouri/Pacific RR & Texas/Pacific RR)... After 1882, JJ (as Jeremiah Mason James) could have dealings with Gould, dunno.

Try Jason Jay Gould..

 

[Kace]

Clarify "Partisan Rangers"; "Q" or "Bloody Bill" Anderson...? Think "BBA" introduced JJ to the KGC; not certain, tho.

Home Guard, Guerrilla, Militia...In my mind Partisan Ranger is much the same, sounds more PC but also signifies a more organized group that were led by 2 very determined and enraged men who were avenging unjust acts and they recruited young men that were talented in the saddle, firearms and garnered sympathy from the southern populous and who were also just as enraged by what what had happened to them and their families, especially the women. They did protect Southern residents from the Union militias. Or, when protection wasn't possible...Revenge in a very public way discouraged other viscous attacks on innocent women, children and older men.

William C. Quantrill; Hated Lincoln and the Northern Aggression. By all accounts was brilliant in the field and would go to any length to make anyone Union or with Union sympathies suffer as he had. He took boys to men..quick and brought out their rage in an organized fashion. They respected him as a leader and I personally feel JWJ absorbed all of it and took it up a few notches. Evidently He respected Quantrill, he followed him and took what he learned, refined it to his goals and led his own rebel army. Both JWJ and Quantrill knew how to level the playing field...Quantrill first in battle and JWJ later in acquisitions (sounds better..lol) by knowing what was going on ahead of time...
Getting Privledged and Sensitive Information From Inside Sources.

William T. 'Bloody Bill' Anderson; He fed on his hatred for the North and Lincoln in a more hands on, brutal and intimidating way. It worked for him and the North exasperated his fury by imprisoning his sisters, collapsing the jail, killing one and crippling one. I personally don't think he was as military minded as Quantrill, but he made up for that in his blind rage. His men also had that rage.. That rage cost him his life at 24yrs old I think it was. I feel he had every intention of going out of this world in a bloody battle...It was worth it to him.

I don't think Bloody Bill Anderson introduced JWJ to KGC due to the fact that he thrived on personally committing actual killings and mutilation in a very public way...KGC while ruthless, is much more hidden and controlled in emotion. Bloody Bill acted on his emotions. JMHO...

I believe William C. Quantrill and William T. 'Bloody Bill' Anderson were both successful and huge assets to the South and Complimented each other in their Guerrilla Warfare. They both had the support and loyalty of the South. Just different ways of fighting. They both were fighting for States Rights and it wasn't a battle over slavery for either man.

Kace

 

[Kace]

One "Blog-Spot" indicated that the Feds were having problems from KGC out of Kansas as early as 1863... JJ was too young for THAT "fight". He DID join "Q's" Guerillas later I think (in the "Free States"), as did his brother, FJ. Then, as Jeremiah Mason James...
"Google" Knights of the Golden Circle in Kansas; HH! Good Luck!

If it was 1863, JWJ would have been 16yrs old...Depending on accounts he was 15,16 or 17yrs old when he joined Quantrill. 15yrs old is the age I've seen most often. If I remember right he was born September 5th, 1847.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Home Guard, Guerrilla, Militia...In my mind Partisan Ranger is much the same, sounds more PC but also signifies a more organized group that were led by 2 very determined and enraged men who were avenging unjust acts and they recruited young men that were talented in the saddle, firearms and garnered sympathy from the southern populous and who were also just as enraged by what what had happened to them and their families, especially the women. They did protect Southern residents from the Union militias. Or, when protection wasn't possible...Revenge in a very public way discouraged other viscous attacks on innocent women, children and older men.

William C. Quantrill; Hated Lincoln and the Northern Aggression. By all accounts was brilliant in the field and would go to any length to make anyone Union or with Union sympathies suffer as he had. He took boys to men..quick and brought out their rage in an organized fashion. They respected him as a leader and I personally feel JWJ absorbed all of it and took it up a few notches. Evidently He respected Quantrill, he followed him and took what he learned, refined it to his goals and led his own rebel army. Both JWJ and Quantrill knew how to level the playing field...Quantrill first in battle and JWJ later in acquisitions (sounds better..lol) by knowing what was going on ahead of time...
Getting Privledged and Sensitive Information From Inside Sources.

William T. 'Bloody Bill' Anderson; He fed on his hatred for the North and Lincoln in a more hands on, brutal and intimidating way. It worked for him and the North exasperated his fury by imprisoning his sisters, collapsing the jail, killing one and crippling one. I personally don't think he was as military minded as Quantrill, but he made up for that in his blind rage. His men also had that rage.. That rage cost him his life at 24yrs old I think it was. I feel he had every intention of going out of this world in a bloody battle...It was worth it to him.

I don't think Bloody Bill Anderson introduced JWJ to KGC due to the fact that he thrived on personally committing actual killings and mutilation in a very public way...KGC while ruthless, is much more hidden and controlled in emotion. Bloody Bill acted on his emotions. JMHO...

I believe William C. Quantrill and William T. 'Bloody Bill' Anderson were both successful and huge assets to the South and Complimented each other in their Guerrilla Warfare. They both had the support and loyalty of the South. Just different ways of fighting. They both were fighting for States Rights and it wasn't a battle over slavery for either man.

Kace

Maybe it WAS "Q"; do YOU know...? JJ ended up being "in charge" of KGC $$$$$$$$$$$; KGC 2nd Degree (State Level) & MAY be why all the robbing was going on... dunno. JJ, as Jeremiah Mason James didn't indicate WEALTH.

 

[uglymailman]

The Partisan Ranger Act of 1862 gave a legal right to Southern group's operating outside the "norms" of the Confederate Army. It was repealed in 1864 after pressure from R.E.Lee.
Quantrill had Lt.'s Anderson and Todd. I think there were a couple of others.
Most have heard about the burning/sacking of Lawrence, Ks.. Most don't know this was in retaliation for the burning/sacking of Osceola,Mo. Osceola was accessible by Riverboat and before the Civil War was the largest City in Western MO. and the closest point to ship goods to Fort Scott,Ks. and the Shawnee Missions. Before the War, Jayhawkers (unscrupulousness people from Kansas) would go to Missouri, steal slaves, take them back to Ks. and get the reward money when the Slaves were claimed. After the start of the war, The Jayhawkers would go to MO.,rob,rape and kill them trail back to Ks. Whole orchards were dug up and transported back to Ks. The burning of Osceola was after the plundering of over a million dollars worth of goods (1862 dollars) and the murder/rape of several citizens. This riled up the local residents who joined w/the Partisan Rangers. Some for the rest of the war but most just to go to Lawrence,Ks. to "get their goods back". The Rangers killed every man in Lawrence but raped none. Lawrence was the home of Lane and Tennison who were the leaders of the Jayhawkers. It should be noted the Jayhawkers were not held in high regard by Regular Union Forces and at least once orders for their arrest was issued. Politics being what they were they got away with many crimes but at least twice were ordered out of MO. by Union officials.
After this, General Order Number 11 was issued. This Order said there could be no home outside a mile of the County seat of the County's bordering Ks. from about Harrisonville to Nevada. 4 or 5 County's, about 100 miles. All the goods a person owned were confiscated or burned along with their homes. Cole Youngers Mother was made to set fire to her own home.
Most of the men that burned Lawrence,Ks. never rode w/the Rangers again. Most of Quantrill's men came from "Little Dixie" in MO. This was an area 50 miles either side of the Missouri River between Kansas City and St. Louis. Anderson,Todd and McCorkle were from there. James were from Kerney, North of the Mo. River and Younger from Harrisonville,15 miles from Ks. and 50 miles south of Kansas City.
There were terrible acts committed by BOTH sides in this area and damned few were without sin. Quantrill would sometimes let a Union man live. Anderson never did and was know to personally execute unarmed prisoners. Union men and Southern sympathizers were murdered in horrible ways here. Not always because of the War but of bad blood before the war.
Most Partisan Rangers led lawful productive lives after the war. For some, the war never ended.

 

[Kace]

The Partisan Ranger Act of 1862 gave a legal right to Southern group's operating outside the "norms" of the Confederate Army. It was repealed in 1864 after pressure from R.E.Lee.
Quantrill had Lt.'s Anderson and Todd. I think there were a couple of others.
Most have heard about the burning/sacking of Lawrence, Ks.. Most don't know this was in retaliation for the burning/sacking of Osceola,Mo. Osceola was accessible by Riverboat and before the Civil War was the largest City in Western MO. and the closest point to ship goods to Fort Scott,Ks. and the Shawnee Missions. Before the War, Jayhawkers (unscrupulousness people from Kansas) would go to Missouri, steal slaves, take them back to Ks. and get the reward money when the Slaves were claimed. After the start of the war, The Jayhawkers would go to MO.,rob,rape and kill them trail back to Ks. Whole orchards were dug up and transported back to Ks. The burning of Osceola was after the plundering of over a million dollars worth of goods (1862 dollars) and the murder/rape of several citizens. This riled up the local residents who joined w/the Partisan Rangers. Some for the rest of the war but most just to go to Lawrence,Ks. to "get their goods back". The Rangers killed every man in Lawrence but raped none. Lawrence was the home of Lane and Tennison who were the leaders of the Jayhawkers. It should be noted the Jayhawkers were not held in high regard by Regular Union Forces and at least once orders for their arrest was issued. Politics being what they were they got away with many crimes but at least twice were ordered out of MO. by Union officials.
After this, General Order Number 11 was issued. This Order said there could be no home outside a mile of the County seat of the County's bordering Ks. from about Harrisonville to Nevada. 4 or 5 County's, about 100 miles. All the goods a person owned were confiscated or burned along with their homes. Cole Youngers Mother was made to set fire to her own home.
Most of the men that burned Lawrence,Ks. never rode w/the Rangers again. Most of Quantrill's men came from "Little Dixie" in MO. This was an area 50 miles either side of the Missouri River between Kansas City and St. Louis. Anderson,Todd and McCorkle were from there. James were from Kerney, North of the Mo. River and Younger from Harrisonville,15 miles from Ks. and 50 miles south of Kansas City.
There were terrible acts committed by BOTH sides in this area and damned few were without sin. Quantrill would sometimes let a Union man live. Anderson never did and was know to personally execute unarmed prisoners. Union men and Southern sympathizers were murdered in horrible ways here. Not always because of the War but of bad blood before the war.
Most Partisan Rangers led lawful productive lives after the war. For some, the war never ended.

Great Post Ug! Thanks For Posting The Information...The Burning Of Osceola Rarely Comes Up and It Should...Lotta bad stuff happened there

Kace

 

[Kace]

Maybe it WAS "Q"; do YOU know...? JJ ended up being "in charge" of KGC $$$$$$$$$$$; KGC 2nd Degree (State Level) & MAY be why all the robbing was going on... dunno. JJ, as Jeremiah Mason James didn't indicate WEALTH.

Could I prove it was Quantrill that introduced JWJ to KGC? Absolutely Not!

Looking at W. T. Anderson's known locations and actions Compared to W.C. Quantrill's known locations and actions and considering when and where Bloody Bill died, it makes sense to Me that Bloody Bill had an agenda of his own and that was to kill, torture and mutilate His Enemy while furthering the Southern cause. Quantrill was more disciplined in his actions.

From all reputable information regarding KGC, I understand KGC to have a little more discretion and finesse than acting from personal emotions, meaning that organization tried to attract as little attention as possible..RR..while furthering their agenda..RR..networking, eliminating problematic figures..RR..and funding their cause. Anderson wanted attention and acted on emotion.

The codes, symbolism and sign is a complex form of communication spanning many states..RR..well known and well placed people..RR..and locations that to Me were well thought out and would of required communication..RR..and planning to coordinate the removal..RR..and placement..RR..of the funds to further their cause.

If you believe in the existence of KGC, you have to believe in large vaults and smaller cashes...Personally, I do believe in both. The large vaults could not have happened spur of the moment. The smaller cashes that have been located, to Me indicate stashes for unforeseen expenditures and payoff money for local to whatever area people who might ask questions. I Do Not Think Every Smaller Cashe or Safe That Has Been Found is Jesse James or KGC...The Large Vaults Or Depositories, I do believe they are CSA, KGC.. For that to happen you needed owners of Rail,Shipping and Livery Operations along with Discreet, Loyal and Respected Frontmen.. CSA, KGC had them. William T. 'Bloody Bill' Anderson would not have been a good frontman.

You recommended the books...lol!

Once you get past authors who are sensationalistic and find those that deal with known facts and are historically correct with their Verifiable Information on the players, it does make sense. Even In Death..

Where are you finding information on Jeremiah Mason James or Jere Miah Mason James?

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Could I prove it was Quantrill that introduced JWJ to KGC? Absolutely Not!

Looking at W. T. Anderson's known locations and actions Compared to W.C. Quantrill's known locations and actions and considering when and where Bloody Bill died, it makes sense to Me that Bloody Bill had an agenda of his own and that was to kill, torture and mutilate His Enemy while furthering the Southern cause. Quantrill was more disciplined in his actions.

From all reputable information regarding KGC, I understand KGC to have a little more discretion and finesse than acting from personal emotions, meaning that organization tried to attract as little attention as possible..RR..while furthering their agenda..RR..networking, eliminating problematic figures..RR..and funding their cause. Anderson wanted attention and acted on emotion.

The codes, symbolism and sign is a complex form of communication spanning many states..RR..well known and well placed people..RR..and locations that to Me were well thought out and would of required communication..RR..and planning to coordinate the removal..RR..and placement..RR..of the funds to further their cause.

If you believe in the existence of KGC, you have to believe in large vaults and smaller cashes...Personally, I do believe in both. The large vaults could not have happened spur of the moment. The smaller cashes that have been located, to Me indicate stashes for unforeseen expenditures and payoff money for local to whatever area people who might ask questions. I Do Not Think Every Smaller Cashe or Safe That Has Been Found is Jesse James or KGC...The Large Vaults Or Depositories, I do believe they are CSA, KGC.. For that to happen you needed owners of Rail,Shipping and Livery Operations along with Discreet, Loyal and Respected Frontmen.. CSA, KGC had them. William T. 'Bloody Bill' Anderson would not have been a good frontman.

You recommended the books...lol!

Once you get past authors who are sensationalistic and find those that deal with known facts and are historically correct with their Verifiable Information on the players, it does make sense. Even In Death..

Where are you finding information on Jeremiah Mason James or Jere Miah Mason James?

Kace

JMJ...? MANY diverse sources; JESSE JAMES SECRET: Cover-Ups & Hidden Treasure by Pastore/Woods is my "Fave" b/c it has "pics" of the various "players". Dr. Roy Roush has some interesting info about KGC "connections". Just gotta put it all together.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Try Jason Jay Gould..

Very INTERESTING! THANKS!

 

[Kace]

Very INTERESTING! THANKS!

You are very welcome Reb!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HA!

Tell "us" MORE about Jeremiah Mason James/Jere Miah James; haven't seen that grave site "pic", yet.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

That "pic" of his gGrandson was INTERESTING! (Jeremiah James) Whatever happened to him...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

If Jesse James "became" Jeremiah Mason James after 1882, I can see where JJ could do his KGC "worK" (2nd Degree - KGC). NO ONE, except his KGC Brethren would know...