Oroblanco
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- Jan 21, 2005
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- #601
Bill, before we grab handcuffs and call for the gendarmes, we do not know that any crime was even committed. Exactly what charges would you like to bring against the people who worked in that old mine? Trespass maybe? They could have been "rockhounding" and at that time, the rules were a limit of either 150 pounds of rock per person per year, or 200 pounds/year. Now that rule has been tightened to the point that anyone hiking through the Superstitions should wear Teflon shoes because the dirt sticking to the tread is more than is allowed to remove.
Secondly, even IF they were committing FELONIES by mining out some gold ore, or removing ore from a cache (which does not fall under Treasure Trove by the way, as it is not refined/smelted metals) there is such a thing as a Statute of Limitations. In other words, if seven years have passed and they certainly have, then NO charges can even be filed because it has exceeded the statute of limitations. If you doubt me on this, look it up for yourself, the AZ law is 13-107. Murder, rape, misappropriation of public funds and a few other crimes are not covered by any statute of limitations in Arizona, but you see based on what information we have, we could not even press charges IF crimes were even committed. On the other hand, if you are thinking to press Federal charges for something that happens on Federal lands, the statute of limitations is FIVE years. Check it for yourself, the Federal law is 18 U.S.C. § 3282. So lets not start getting worked up and making charges of crimes against people for events that we certainly did not witness and really only know of anything by second hand. Seems like you have a real bone to pick with these fellows for some reason. Do you think that gold they got, was the only gold there is left to find?
Just my OPINION, but I believe that there are several lost mines in the Superstitions and adjacent regions. I do not believe that Apache Jack's gold in black quartz was the same as the LDM, nor Wagoner's rose quartz gold. Then there is the odd placer on top of a mesa, where they were separating the gold from the dirt by winnowing it, tossing it on a blanket in the wind so the air would remove the lighter stuff. As far as I know, no one has ever reported finding a rich gold placer on top of a mesa in the Superstitions YET. If we broaden our search area a bit, we can add in the Black Maverick, Lost Pick and a half dozen others including also at least one silver mine which apparently no one is interested in looking for. There are clear indications of silver and silver minerals along the south edge of the Wilderness area too. Then there is the gold found by Silverlock and Malm, I see no reason to conclude that had to come from the LDM either, nor that the mine which produced that gold is close to the spot where the pile and rotted pack saddle were found. Finding a lost mine is not easy and takes a fair dose of luck, but those who never look for one will absolutely never find one. So even if the Pit mine was the LDM and I am far from convinced that it is, (I would accept that it is the lost Peralta mine for obvious reasons) you see there are a number of others that one could search for, especially if you are willing to look outside the Wilderness boundaries.
Rogers canyon is today inside the Wilderness but I do not think it was always, and by the terms of the Wilderness Act, really IMHO it never should have been included. All known mineralized lands were supposed to be excluded from Wilderness Areas, which is why they have had to do a geological study for any area they wish to make into a new 'wilderness' area.
Not Peralta, that is very nice ore or at least it certainly looks like excellent ore in the photos. If you could bear to cut them into slices and make them into matchboxes, tie pins, cuff links etc I have no doubt that you would stand to make quite a profit on it. My compliments on your finding those specimens, they look great!
Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
Secondly, even IF they were committing FELONIES by mining out some gold ore, or removing ore from a cache (which does not fall under Treasure Trove by the way, as it is not refined/smelted metals) there is such a thing as a Statute of Limitations. In other words, if seven years have passed and they certainly have, then NO charges can even be filed because it has exceeded the statute of limitations. If you doubt me on this, look it up for yourself, the AZ law is 13-107. Murder, rape, misappropriation of public funds and a few other crimes are not covered by any statute of limitations in Arizona, but you see based on what information we have, we could not even press charges IF crimes were even committed. On the other hand, if you are thinking to press Federal charges for something that happens on Federal lands, the statute of limitations is FIVE years. Check it for yourself, the Federal law is 18 U.S.C. § 3282. So lets not start getting worked up and making charges of crimes against people for events that we certainly did not witness and really only know of anything by second hand. Seems like you have a real bone to pick with these fellows for some reason. Do you think that gold they got, was the only gold there is left to find?
Just my OPINION, but I believe that there are several lost mines in the Superstitions and adjacent regions. I do not believe that Apache Jack's gold in black quartz was the same as the LDM, nor Wagoner's rose quartz gold. Then there is the odd placer on top of a mesa, where they were separating the gold from the dirt by winnowing it, tossing it on a blanket in the wind so the air would remove the lighter stuff. As far as I know, no one has ever reported finding a rich gold placer on top of a mesa in the Superstitions YET. If we broaden our search area a bit, we can add in the Black Maverick, Lost Pick and a half dozen others including also at least one silver mine which apparently no one is interested in looking for. There are clear indications of silver and silver minerals along the south edge of the Wilderness area too. Then there is the gold found by Silverlock and Malm, I see no reason to conclude that had to come from the LDM either, nor that the mine which produced that gold is close to the spot where the pile and rotted pack saddle were found. Finding a lost mine is not easy and takes a fair dose of luck, but those who never look for one will absolutely never find one. So even if the Pit mine was the LDM and I am far from convinced that it is, (I would accept that it is the lost Peralta mine for obvious reasons) you see there are a number of others that one could search for, especially if you are willing to look outside the Wilderness boundaries.
Rogers canyon is today inside the Wilderness but I do not think it was always, and by the terms of the Wilderness Act, really IMHO it never should have been included. All known mineralized lands were supposed to be excluded from Wilderness Areas, which is why they have had to do a geological study for any area they wish to make into a new 'wilderness' area.
Not Peralta, that is very nice ore or at least it certainly looks like excellent ore in the photos. If you could bear to cut them into slices and make them into matchboxes, tie pins, cuff links etc I have no doubt that you would stand to make quite a profit on it. My compliments on your finding those specimens, they look great!
Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco