Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

azdave35 said:
roy..when you say assay are you talking about Porterie's assay?...also here is a pic of a cab cut from ore similar to the dutchman's ..very rich in both gold and silver..it came from the santa catalina mountains near tucsonView attachment 1323341
Click to expand...

Nice specimen Dave! And yes I am talking about the assay done by Joe Porterie, for Dick Holmes. As you know it came back over 5000 oz/ton AU and only 2 oz/ton AG, or a ratio of 2500 to 1 gold to silver. Your specimen is similar, but not that similar, take another look:
Dutchman ore Matchbox reverse.jpg
This is NOT rich in silver at all, in fact there is none visible and IMHO no silver minerals visible either. The ore that this matchbox was made from, did not come from any mine in the Randolph silver district, period.

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Oroblanco said:
Nice specimen Dave! And yes I am talking about the assay done by Joe Porterie, for Dick Holmes. As you know it came back over 5000 oz/ton AU and only 2 oz/ton AG, or a ratio of 2500 to 1 gold to silver. Your specimen is similar, but not that similar, take another look:
View attachment 1323348
This is NOT rich in silver at all, in fact there is none visible and IMHO no silver minerals visible either. The ore that this matchbox was made from, did not come from any mine in the Randolph silver district, period.

:coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
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roy...thanks but its not my cab..i found it online...i just thought it looked similar to ore one of the other members posted as being from the pit mine
 

Oroblanco said:
Sound reasoning Old; however that comparison may need to be edited. Unicorns exist, and the only reason they became mythical was due to garbled communications and translations over the centuries. The original unicorns were and are, the single horned Asian rhinos. Early Greek explorers were shocked to find that unicorns indeed had cloven hooves and a single horn coming out of their head, but said they were also exceedingly ugly, covered in armored plates and would charge anyone that tried to approach them. So unicorns are not quite so unlikely after all?
View attachment 1323338
<the Unicorn>

Now on the topic, and not specifically aimed at anyone in particular; if the Pit mine was the source of Waltz's gold why did Holmes assay come back with only two ounces of silver and over 5000 ounces of gold per ton? It should have been very much higher in silver, if it came from any of the mines in the Randolph district. Thanks in advance;

:coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2:
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Roy,

Nice post! So we may be left with the Pit Mine being only a cache from other mines.

Not knowing $#!t about rocks or mining, I suppose it would not be possible for a gold vein in quartz to come up in a later intrusion in a silver mine.

That probably sounds ludicrous to you old sourdough hardrock miners.

Take care,

Joe
 

Identifying poo's state was a prime factor for the trackers, and our Present Border Patrol. how long ago and what did they eat.There is much to be learned by the poo. Presmetly being studied iiin Medivel Castles, And also --yech
 

For those who would know the answer, would it be possible for a chimney bearing rich gold ore to work its way to the surface, through a silver mine?:dontknow:

Thanks,

Joe
 

cactusjumper said:
Roy,

Nice post! So we may be left with the Pit Mine being only a cache from other mines.

Not knowing $#!t about rocks or mining, I suppose it would not be possible for a gold vein in quartz to come up in a later intrusion in a silver mine.

That probably sounds ludicrous to you old sourdough hardrock miners.

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...
joe...if you are asking if a mine can have both silver and gold ore in different veins then yes...the two guys in my story did just that..they found a pretty rich silver vein in their gold mine..lol...that silver ore is probably still sitting on the tailing pile...they were getting good gold out of the mine..they didn't care about no stinkin silver..matter of fact i hear the silver king mine produced alot of gold along with the silver
 

cactusjumper said:
Roy,

Nice post! So we may be left with the Pit Mine being only a cache from other mines.

Not knowing $#!t about rocks or mining, I suppose it would not be possible for a gold vein in quartz to come up in a later intrusion in a silver mine.

That probably sounds ludicrous to you old sourdough hardrock miners.

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

On the unicorns thing, in my defense we ARE in the LEGENDS forum after all!

I would not necessarily say that we are left only with the possibility of a CACHE in the Pit mine at all. In fact a cache could have been much more easily cleaned out than if they had to mine the ore out. Based on the amount of equipment and work done, it sure looks to me that they had to mine out ore.

And yes it is absolutely possible for a later deposit to enter into an older one, however the heated and highly mineralized waters that carry and deposit the gold quartz, would very likely also dissolve any quartz, silver, gold, copper already present, and re-deposit the mixed minerals. I have a few tidbits that I would rather not post, but if anyone is interested you can find the info online or just talk to a geologist - pockets of gold can and do form inside silver mines. Also pockets of copper. The metals separate somehow, possibly due to the actions of water in the water table as silver is more reactive than gold. Ask Jack San Felice if any pockets of gold were ever found in the Silver King mine, my bet is that more than one pocket has been hit.

I would also point out to anyone interested that this old silver mining district was not only known as the Randolph district, it was also called the Pine Grove district, and the Rogers district, and from some of the old locations it appears that at least one or two claims filed as in the Pioneer district are really in this district. If you research the location notices in the old newspapers, you will see that a fair number mentioned that the claims were for both silver AND gold.

:coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
 

azdave35 said:
roy...thanks but its not my cab..i found it online...i just thought it looked similar to ore one of the other members posted as being from the pit mine
Click to expand...

Well, that is not MY matchbox either. :notworthy:
 

Exert from The Quartz Page: Occurrence

"The veins that are associated with igneous rocks intrusions, like granitic plutons, shall serve as an example to briefly introduce some of the processes that lead to ore vein formation. During the solidification of an intruded magmatic rock body it releases hot watery fluids rich in volatile compounds (HF, CO2, H3BO3) that enter cracks in the surrounding rocks. The cracks are often formed during the intrusion of the magma, and later, when the fluids released from the magma boil and the surrounding rocks are shattered ("hydraulic fracturing"). The fluids carry various compounds from the pluton with them, but they will also dissolve minerals from the rocks they percolate and mobilize metals. Because the temperature falls quickly with distance from the pluton, minerals that got dissolved at high temperatures will precipitate again at greater distance from the pluton. Many ore veins show a characteristic sequence of minerals that precipitated in them with clearly distinguishable, often symmetrical layers. The types of minerals found in a vein change with distance from the pluton body, reflecting the solubility of the various compounds at different temperatures. In many cases, quartz can be found at any distance from the pluton, and often the distant ends of the veins are void of ores and simply filled with quartz...."
 

Identifying poo's state was a prime factor for the trackers, and our Present Border Patrol. how long ago and what did they eat.There is much to be learned by the poo. Presmetly being studied iiin Medivel Castles, And also --yech
RDT,

That sounds like a ( wait for it )
A **itty job !!!

thumbsup.gif


 

Hi nobodie, no, but it has turned to a bit of levity to change the pace, the information on the silver mines has just about played out, unless you wish more repetition,

I could discuss the sturctuure of the Tayopas veins but--------------------
 

Could it be forces of those that worked the mine behind the scenes attempting to prove it's the Silver Chief for cover after the early 90's crime?

Stealing the Gold is one thing, stealing history is another, stealing lives from those still looking for something that's already been found and dying trying is negligent homicide after the fact. Not to mention it belongs to the general public domain. I hope they saved all that gold for fighting future litigation. Anyone that's died since then it's on their shoulders. Come clean now and may the good Lord forgive you. Better dump that cursed ore by just giving it to me for safe keeping and I'll have it cleansed of all that bad Ju Ju!

Better yet give it all to the Superstition Mountain Museum for display. If it was from someone else's mining claim it's a crime also. If it was on Wilderness you're going to put in Gitmo.
 

azdave35 said:
roy..when you say assay are you talking about Porterie's assay?...also here is a pic of a cab cut from ore similar to the dutchman's ..very rich in both gold and silver..it came from the santa catalina mountains near tucsonView attachment 1323341
Click to expand...

If that's from Flint Carters collection (Which it looks like his fake ore) it's quartz ore he sends to China for gold leaf inlays. He calls it "Jewelry grade Ore" from his version of the Iron Door Mine so no real ore like that has ever came from the Santa Catalina's. Good use of an example but as fake as a Dutchman Pit Mine.
 

Bill Riley said:
If that's from Flint Carters collection (Which it looks like his fake ore) it's quartz ore he sends to China for gold leaf inlays. He calls it "Jewelry grade Ore" from his version of the Iron Door Mine so no real ore like that has ever came from the Santa Catalina's. Good use of an example but as fake as a Dutchman Pit Mine.
Click to expand...
Amigo,let them work up a sweat in this conversation,relax, have a triple shot of Dewars on Ice and a nice Montecristo.np:cat:
 

Amigo's:coffee2, How many Matchbox's would you like.:hello:img386.jpgimg387.jpgimg388.jpgNP:cat:
 

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For those who like to read, here's a long winded but occasionally interesting article by the U.S. Department of the Interior, Bureau of Land Management;
Wilderness Management; Final Rule

[Nevada, but may apply elsewhere]

Some may find it worthwhile, others may find that it fits neatly into the new Bill Riley introduced subject area of 'scat or BS'. ;)
It does talk about mining and the removal of minerals, including sample collecting, within a Wilderness Area.

[This is not the actual Act (as the name implies) but also addresses questions/comments to the Act. Such as:

Ex. "What penalties am I subject to if I commit one or more of the prohibited acts?" (Section 6302.30)

Ex. "What special provisions apply to operations under the mining laws?" (Section 6304.11)

Ex. "One comment stated that the one-year deadline for removal of equipment and improvements, and the six-month deadline for beginning reclamation, may not be long enough, especially at high altitudes or latitudes."

Ex. "The final rule also reserves a subparagraph in the mining law administration section for a proposed subparagraph on timber use for mining activities."

Ex. "How will BLM determine the validity of unpatented mining claims or sites?" (Section 6304.12)

And on and on...]

Click here you curious readers; Wilderness Act of 1964
 

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