Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

[sgtfda]

Thank you Sarge, I have real thick mud terrain oversized tires and I've been in some bad places before! I have two spares and will take your expert advice you know the place better than I.

How come if the tunnel in the bottom of the pit was already 90 foot back no one noticed the vein inside it was running thick with gold? I'm sure other miners had been in there and seem the vein so why did David Leach all of a sudden find it was full of gold? The pit was well known as being there before he said he worked it.


I hate four wheeling in the dark but you're wrong about the light bar. The lights need to be under the front and rear of the truck so you can see what you're running over or getting into at ground level. Otherwise you'll take a dive off the road or get into a serious rut.

If he found it and it was covered that would explain it but I read somewhere about the pit tunnel already being there long before it was said to be found as new. So which is it? I guess unless we uncover the pit again we'll never know. I believe the same people that worked it covered it as they know it has more gold to offer for later when mineral exploration opens up again.

Bill the problem in heavy rain Queen Creek floods. Big time! The road coming off the mountain has many steep dips and sharp turns at the crest. Without roof lights you can't see what your driving up over. The lower lights are aiming down into the dip. I have both top and bottom lights.

 

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[azdave35]

Thank you all for the kind words and thoughts, I am doing well and trying to catch up on all the interesting discussions that I have missed.

To try to tie this back in to the topic, we might look at Joe's point about the silver mine being a store house or cache for the gold of Jacob Waltz. If this were true, then would it not still mean that the gold ore came from a mine, even if not that particular mine? It would be an ingenious place to hide a cache of gold ore, for who would look for gold in a silver mine?

Please do continue, thanks again and Joe we have much more to debate! <eg the original route of the first Americans, Atlantis, the LBH etc>

Roy

roy boy.....glad to see your doing better..been kinda boring without you around here

 

[Loke]

roy boy.....glad to see your doing better..been kinda boring without you around here

*chuckles* I just couldn't agree more!!

 

[EarnieP]

Two different sites, one legal the other .............

Hello Old,

Do you have a name or location (or both) for that 'different site', so that I don't mix my metaphors in the future?

Thanks,

 

[Old]

Hello Old,

Do you have a name or location (or both) for that 'different site', so that I don't mix my metaphors in the future?

Thanks,

The other site is Roger's Spring. Roughly a mile and half S/E.

 

[Cubfan64]

Thank you Sarge, I have real thick mud terrain oversized tires and I've been in some bad places before! I have two spares and will take your expert advice you know the place better than I.

How come if the tunnel in the bottom of the pit was already 90 foot back no one noticed the vein inside it was running thick with gold? I'm sure other miners had been in there and seem the vein so why did David Leach all of a sudden find it was full of gold? The pit was well known as being there before he said he worked it.


I hate four wheeling in the dark but you're wrong about the light bar. The lights need to be under the front and rear of the truck so you can see what you're running over or getting into at ground level. Otherwise you'll take a dive off the road or get into a serious rut.

If he found it and it was covered that would explain it but I read somewhere about the pit tunnel already being there long before it was said to be found as new. So which is it? I guess unless we uncover the pit again we'll never know. I believe the same people that worked it covered it as they know it has more gold to offer for later when mineral exploration opens up again.

David Leach had NOTHING to do with working the mine in question and nobody including him ever said he did. If you don't know the facts of the story it's fine to ask questions, but don't make statements naming a person that are not true please.

 

[cactusjumper]

Bill,

The above statement by Paul is absolutely true. You should stick to what you know. I'm sure there must be plenty for you to post about.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[EarnieP]

Ah, Pit mine, always an edgy topic. (pun intended)

 

[nobodie]

Frank,
I don't believe that the pit mine is the LDM, but you mentioned an old house foundation and Waltzes cache. This might be helpful in some way.
Walter Gasslers manuscript, page 9:
" investigating further down by the walls of the house he certainly must have found his gold, cowhide bags full in the walls, and here is where I think it all started, he started to spin his stories, Waltz said he tore the walls down and threw the stones into the wash,"
" Dick Holmes told Tex Berkeley he left 6-7 bags back there buried and hidden."

 

[sgtfda]

Well it's next to a wash

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Thank you all for the kind words and thoughts, I am doing well and trying to catch up on all the interesting discussions that I have missed.

To try to tie this back in to the topic, we might look at Joe's point about the silver mine being a store house or cache for the gold of Jacob Waltz. If this were true, then would it not still mean that the gold ore came from a mine, even if not that particular mine? It would be an ingenious place to hide a cache of gold ore, for who would look for gold in a silver mine?
:

Not this Honky Cat



The thing is, peeps still be looking for the sliver mine and then stumble upon anything else around. How does that help hide it?

 

[cactusjumper]

CN,

"The thing is, peeps still be looking for the sliver mine and then stumble upon anything else around. How does that help hide it?"

The Pit Mine is difficult to get to, and it was covered over. Eventually......it did get discovered, re-opened and cleaned out of......whatever.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[markmar]

IMO , the Pit mine is only what Matthew wrote . An old silver mine , reopened in the 70's , digged about 2oo feet and covered again . You are very confused if you believe the Pit mine is the LDM .

 

[markmar]

Well it's next to a wash

Υes , it is , but it's walls aren't scattered in the wash . In the LDM case the house's ruins are on the edge of a cliff which is over and side by a wash/gulch .

 

[EarnieP]

The other site is Roger's Spring. Roughly a mile and half S/E.

Thanks for that info, Old.

(Deleted earlier post because I'm a bit 'claustrophobic' and don't wish to delve further into the Pit.)

 

[cactusjumper]

Location Notice for Silver Chief Mine.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Azquester]

David Leach had NOTHING to do with working the mine in question and nobody including him ever said he did. If you don't know the facts of the story it's fine to ask questions, but don't make statements naming a person that are not true please.

It was my mistake Cubanfan. I thought he was the one working it. After hearing from all the people on here I understand he was the one that found it while it was being worked. As far as the caches that were allegedly found earlier where is any proof of that claim.

Plenty of ore samples of the Pit mine but none of the caches. The more I hear the more it sounds like this Pit mine may not have been the smoking gun of the Dutchman's Claim. Especially since we have a silver claim from 1910 at the same location. I don't see how someone could claim the silver mine and not know about the pit above. And why did they cover the Pit over like Jacob would've done? Probably because of claim jumpers and all those hostile Dutch Hunters in 1910 still out there shooting each other. Also, I believe the pit with a tunnel at the bottom would tend to fill up with water rather quickly. It might have been for safety and flooding prevention.

 

[Azquester]

Bill,

The above statement by Paul is absolutely true. You should stick to what you know. I'm sure there must be plenty for you to post about.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

I post what I want Joe. I don't need to be directed or told to post other subjects just because I said something that hit a nerve. Pinching nerves is what gets reactions that moves a conversation forward and gleams further evidence out of peoples emotional responses. Although I had no idea I had pinched a nerve and accused a finder of being a digging member it seems the finder has many defenders of his non-envolvment. I don't think at this point it matters that much the mine has been covered over and I don't think it will ever be re-opened for the purpose of proving one way or another it was the real McCoy. So if it matters that much for people to be unlinked to the mine I'll say for the heck of it I dug it back then. No big deal. All I got was a sore back and mud in my eye.

But, if, and only if, it was dug out back when Matthew said it was by some mining company for the purpose of exploration before the 1984 wilderness act took place there should be records of it proving what he said is true. No company would do that much work with out records of it and no work would be done with out the knowledge of the BLM or Forest Service on that claim. I'm sure as many people as there were hiking all over and working other claims nearby someone would have documentation.

 

[cactusjumper]

It was my mistake Cubanfan. I thought he was the one working it. After hearing from all the people on here I understand he was the one that found it while it was being worked. As far as the caches that were allegedly found earlier where is any proof of that claim.

Plenty of ore samples of the Pit mine but none of the caches. The more I hear the more it sounds like this Pit mine may not have been the smoking gun of the Dutchman's Claim. Especially since we have a silver claim from 1910 at the same location. I don't see how someone could claim the silver mine and not know about the pit above. And why did they cover the Pit over like Jacob would've done? Probably because of claim jumpers and all those hostile Dutch Hunters in 1910 still out there shooting each other. Also, I believe the pit with a tunnel at the bottom would tend to fill up with water rather quickly. It might have been for safety and flooding prevention.

Bill,

Good to see you are doing your homework. He did not find it "while it was being worked", but a number of years after it was worked. If you know anything at all about the location of the Pit Mine, you can see by the document I posted above, that it does not relate to the Silver Chief.

Of course you can post whatever you want to, even if it is shown to be completely inaccurate.


The questions remain, is the Pit Mine the Silver Chief and what mine did the Mining Company explore? No doubt that Matthew will come up with the documentation you mention.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[EarnieP]

From the discussions, it seems this particular 'Pit' mine was worked and reworked on several different occasions, so you guys could be talking about two completely different times of 'workings'.

Joe, your posted 'Location Notice' is for Silver Chief Mine No. 2 which is described as "endlines with the Silver Chief Claim".
Which of these two (or neither) is related to the 'Pit' mine we are currently discussing?