found tip possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (update)

ivan salis

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found tip possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (update)

while chatting with a local fellow doing a bit of research on a confederate camp site area in my area -- the person spoke of a "missing" union unit --a white officer commanding a small foot patrol unit of black soldiers ( said to be between 30 to 50 men) -- these men ran into a much larger rebel unit and got "boxed in" refusing to surrender ( the white officer was killed early on in the fight and it seems the black troops feared being hanged if they surrendered as this was wide spread belief --true or not --that this would occur if the black troops were caught by southern troops) so they fought to the death to the last man. -- after the fight for them refusing to surrender and thus forcing additional fighting which caused some additional maiming and killing of some of the southern soldiers (several more than if they had just surrendered when asked to )-- the angry southern soldiers piled their bodies in a heap and burnt them in revenge . --- the man who told me said his grandmother told him of it as a child --and said that she knew because it was upon her great grandpa's land (who was alive at the time * and told her as a kid) he was there when the event occured in the civil war -I have also found out from the man I spoke to that according to him no union troops ever came in the area to "look" for the "lost union patrol". so upon that bit of land is the burnt remains of between 30 to 50 men of the "lost patrol"-- I hope to attempt to find their remains ( if I can get land owner ok) and have them properly honored if I can.

later note ****this is freakish -- after completing the above post --I felt "compelled" to go see if this possible "site" had been developed or not --at 1 am in the morning mind you and its a fair bit from home --got in the car drove down there a sort of a remote area -- after seeing the spot -- I could have returned the way I came or take the long way around -- the was a small creek a bit down the other long road way --very possibly were the lost patrol got pinned in at --so I go that way -- as I approach it , it appears somethings in the road --the night fog was coming in but the image of something snaps me to --in the fog is a totally wrecked car with someone in it still --the car is still steaming and leaking gas --it had to have just occurred- I help the driver out ---the driver is muttering I thought I saw something in the road so I swerved -- its clear to see he went off the curve by the bridge --hitting trees with his passenger side which spun his car back on the road -- totally fubar ed-- the 20ish something kids beat up and bleeding but lucky to be alive --all he can do is cry "my car" over and over --silly kid -- hes standing by the car in the road even after I told him it might blow stay away from it -- then a huge dually type pick up comes flying like a bat outta --- down the road right at the no lights on wreck with the kid between the two --I flash my brights up and down several times to alert the oncoming truck --he pays no mind -- only at the last second does he see it and slam on brakes --close call--if I had not alerted him he would have plowed right into it kid wreck and leaking gas and all --boom. -- you know the "lost patrol" bodies was burnt to a crisp.-- this is freaky indeed. === the dually truck never even stopped just went around us on the berm "rolled on"
 

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Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Montana Jim said:
Kentucky Kache said:
Montana Jim said:
Any followup on the car accident?

I tried to read about it in the Nassau County Record to see what kind of excuse the kid told the cops but there was no story. :( Maybe it never made the paper.

Call the police station. They might not tell you anything, but if you really want to know, it might be worth a try.

Have we fallen into having to prove other people's statements when they talk about a lead? Is our own life really that boring?

Um... I've been contributing to the conversation - Did you read the article I posted supporting the possibility of poor records and rooting hogs? All you've been doing is giving SWR a hard time. So, I wanted to read about the accident, I asked a question, Ivan responded, now I'm catching hell from you?

If you don't mind (which I know you do), I'm not interested in your approval.

Goto bed. Don't trip over your attitude on the way.

Why MJ, this doesn't sound like...you. :wink:
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

jim was not questioning me as far as "did it really happen?" ky cache ---he knows me too well for that to occur -- he was just trying to find out more info about who the kid was ect ect like any good reasearcher would -- damn funny thing --most likely saved the fellows life but oddly didn't think at the time to catch his name -- only that he was from NC was visiting folks here and " dude my car , my car I musta spent 20 grand on fixing it up" non stop like a broken record -- it bright tred and was sorta "pimped out looking" and had the little thin flat looking tires --well it used to have em would be more correct ---peace everybody
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

ivan salis said:
jim was not questioning me as far as "did it really happen?" ky cache ---he knows me too well for that to occur -- he was just trying to find out more info about who the kid was ect ect like any good reasearcher would -- damn funny thing --most likely saved the fellows life but oddly didn't think at the time to catch his name -- only that he was from NC was visiting folks here and " dude my car , my car I musta spent 20 grand on fixing it up" non stop like a broken record -- it bright tred and was sorta "pimped out looking" and had the little thin flat looking tires --well it used to have em would be more correct ---peace everybody

Okay, sorry for talking out of turn. I'll try not to do it again.
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Ivan, Any chance of finding out what that kid really 'thought he saw in the road'?
I know most people would 'swerve' for most animals in a sudden confrontation on a country road, but;
let's investigate further :icon_thumleft:
Mike
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Great thread.

I would like to know if anything turns up on the bodies.

Thanks for an interesting post.

Ray ECenFL
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (mo

On finding the distressed driver... "Good Timing is better than Good Luck"

On the Civil War itself,... It was one of the stupidest reasons to fight a war over, but love its history and all the great relics you guys find.
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

So what happened? Did you talk to the former owner? Did you get permission? Not to poke a beehive but I agree with you both. Documentation is everything and nothing at the same time. The story came frome SOMEWHERE, but probably became exagerated over the years. I wouldn't doubt that a small unit could get surrounded and pinned down, and I wouldn't doubt that war crimes happened on both sides...especially with such hate and racial issues at the time (not that we don't unfortunately have them now...war crimes, racism and hate). It is well worth looking into to find out more information...hey if you find a pile of black unit artifacts (charred or not) where the landowner tells you, you will at least prove that something happened there. I would suggest that if you want to prove something though that you report it immediately and get some pros involved (although I would be the last one to call the pros :wink: ).
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (mo

All leads are worth exploring, because you never know....remember the Atocha
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

camp milton was routed by the union troops in their outward march out of jacksonville going toward olustee * as they went thru it and thru baldwin out bound towards sanderson and alligator */(lake city) going to the battle --it was also along their line of retreat after the battle as they returned -- the area in question is not too far from camp milton * ( a large camp that often held up to 5,000 confederate troops at times) thats true* but at the time of the battle of olustee it was empty of confederate forces .

however if the event is not directly battle of olustee related ---say it occured before or a good bit afterward --the the confederates that did it very well might have been based at camp milton -- often small union rail road "wrecking" detachments ( about the size of this group) were sent out of jacksonville to mess up the train tracks -- the rebels had a large cannon (the same one used at the battle of olustee by the way. --based at camp milton * --they woulld push it on a flat car within a couple miles of jacksonville and shell the city at night . -- many times the union forces tried to wreck the rail trestles or mess up the tracks to prevent this from occuring *( it was a near daily cat and mouse fight --they break /we fix sort of deal) --it might have been a just such a detail like that that is the basis of rhe story that is if it was not stragglers from olustee-- in my veiw knowing the local civil war history as I do --It does have possible historical "legs" to it and thus might really be true and thus is worth checking out farther --called the man today but got his answering machine --most likely at church still -- will try later on today to see if I can pump more info out of em.
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Long-time lurker, infrequent poster. I log in almost every day to see the new treasures everyone digs up.

This thread especially got my attention and I wanted to add my 2 cents. I am a Florida native and history buff. I have no idea where or if it is even documented, but it is very "common knowledge" among Florida historians and genealogist that after the Battle of Olustee, surrendering Union black soldiers were shot and killed on and around the battlefield.
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

I know that bit of history about the battle of Olustee as well ( not a "proud" moment of southern history that those woundeed helpless men were shot while trying to surrender) --to fight a foe upon the feild of honor and kill him is one thing--but to kill a man that is unable to fight or who is honestly trying to surrender is another and is dishonorible in my veiw -- knowing the true history of Olustee is one of the reasons why I personally think that this story might just be true . --with the large numbers of union MIA's unaccounted for from the battle (many of them black) --I easily can see a small group of say 30 to 50 union black foot soldiers cut off from the main union body during the night as they were retreating towatds jacksonville after the battle , getting "pinned in" and wiped out by local confederate calvary troops , because after having seeing and hearing the "no mercy" treatment of Olustee they would not trust anyones word of fair treatment upon surrender.

if the group was not stragglers from olustee --- a 30 to 50 man union black troop "track track / trestle" wrecking party would be another strong and logical choice --with them coming from jacksonville and the calavary from camp milton .
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

After re-reading the original post, I'm only going to answer that

First, good for you for being willing to go with your gut. Seems like *Something* was trying to get someone out there at that time and place. You did say later that you didn't think to get the kid's name (understandable), but what happened then? Did he call his relatives and get a lift home? Did he call a wrecker? Frankly, I'm curious as to what the kid thought he saw that caused him to wipe out.

As for the first part, how cool! I hope you do follow up on the family's story, and that they're willing, too. From all my genealogy research, I know that a "family story" might be considered gospel, but when researched, are found to be faulty. However(!) many times they're based on some event that did happen, but later generations may have retained the general story, even if details have been "filled out."

So I'm all for further followup, easy for me to say from here, I know. But it sounds like "something" happened, and that "something" may still remain. Good luck!

Nan
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

well --the kid was left in the care of the paramedics that showed up --he was a bit beat up and bleeding --busted up arm --couple ribs cracked most likely and he had smacked his head on the windsheild so face and arm had cuts & bleeding -- but overall he looked like he would be ok long term -- as the fire trucks came on the scene (they wanted to wash the gas and stuff and hose down the car for safety )--I was told that they did not needed me for anything and I was "free to go "--(basically your in the way of the fire truck ---so move along ) it was a small two lane road in the boonies -- so away I went
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

All negativity and doubting aside...I think the real fun in your search is the "search" itself. It's like some people in Florida would like you to believe that there never were any pirates here. There might not have been a "Jose Gaspar" but there were other pirates. Documented by the Spanish, English, and U.S.. So what if you don't find buried pirate treasure...At least you can say you SEARCHED for buried pirate treasure! How many people can say that?

So what if you don't find proof of a lost Union patrol? The fun is in the research, and the hunt! How much value would you put on the stories you hear from old-timers? If those family folklore stories aren't retold, they dissapear forever. My grandfather told me 3 stories of his grandfather in the Civil War. I doubt those stories are known to anyone else besides me and my father. We just happened to have enough interest in history to remember them. If I don't tell anyone else...when I die, the stories are gone forever.

As far as no record of either side burning soldiers bodies....I don't know...I haven't read the Official Records of the Rebellion...and that is kind of one side's knowledge of what happened, except for where other testimonies or letters/orders might have been used.

There is an account of Confederate troops burying black soldiers with their heads exposed, and running over them with wagons. I can't remember if they were alive at the time, or it was just defacing the bodies, but that was on Ken Burns' documentery, as I recall...so things like that did happen.

The point is... enjoy the hunt, even if you don't prove the story...but you allready understand that I'm sure!
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Yeah, but those UFO "documentaries" rely more on verbal accounts rather than offical "documents".

I know that when the aliens took me up into their ship, I didn't want to tell anyone what had happened up there, I REALLY didn't want to write any of it down.

There was something that looked like this: :sign13: involved.....
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Deja vu!

SWR...It is hard to have a discussion based on reliable references and verifiable sources on a lead from a verbal history that is passed down through a family.

If someone burried a Mason jar full of Morgan dollars in 1940 and died before it was recovered, and the surviving family knew it was somewhere out in the woods behind the old homestead....there might not be too much written records of it, or notarized documentation. That doesn't mean that it isn't out there under an old tree, and it doesn't mean that the great grandson of the original owner is lying when he says he has heard that there was a Mason jar full of silver coins somewhere on the old property.

Some things can't be proven by words written on a paper.

And a LOT of the things written down on paper aren't anywhere close to the truth!

And NGE....I think that is a serious stretch, and kinda uncalled for in my opinion.....
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

What I really want to know is, WHY does it HAVE to be written somewhere? It seems that everytime someone tries to do something in here, someone comes in and shoots their story fulla holes and says it didn't happen, because its NOT recorded, reported, written, etc etc. Now, the person that told me of some things that happened a long time ago, and can show me where certain things are buried in the woods a long ways from me, WILL try in any way they can to discredit my story, by saying; Where is it written? Who told you such a cocka-maimy story, PROVE IT! Because I didn't want to know these certain things, I cannot show anyone these things, but I can put myself in the general area, BUT, I would have over 200 acres to search. Ivan heard about an incident, and thought that there may be a hint of truth in it, it was fate that told him to go at that time of night to that place on that road. Sure some may not believe in the un-natural, I believe that there is an untold story waiting to be told and cleared up, and I also believe that the kid that wrecked his car there may have seen an apparition on the road. Mr. Salis has already stated that he is willing to spend (waste) his time, money and energy trying to prove this story one way or the other. Please, do not try to sway him from searching this. One question for SWR, have you ever gone to any areas that you have research materials on and had a look-see, to see if what is written could possibly have been fiction, glorious embellishments, or just plain old masculine Bovine Excrement?...........NGE
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

I will REMOVE the said post that was thought to be inapproprate. I still have my opinions and I will (in my mind) stick to them........NGE
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

We were all told stories of a great misdeed performed by the nazi's during WWII. And there are stories from survivors, and some people that actually participated in these horrendous crimes, they are on the run and will tell their kids anything to put the blame on someone else. Heck, there are even some groups that believe that The Holocaust never happened. There is all kinds of proof. I believe the stories of Dr'.s experimenting on hapless souls, but did all these get documented? I don't think so. So goes with the unwritten or little mentioned stories of some of the stuff that happened during the Un-Civil war.........NGE
 

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

oh folks are allowed to have differing views * --its what makes the world go round --- and folks can say ---- "in my point of veiw" without " peroid written down proof" the story is historically unrelible . * such is their right.

however it is my point of view --that at times in the past there were things and historical details often not written down but recorded only by having the story passed down via oral history -- father to son --or mother to daughter -- or even grandpa to grand kids. ---these stories often contain bits of history that never were recorded on paper --- at times they can be a lot of BS mixed in overtime --- but often theres a nugget of truth behind them --and at times a whole historically important story never told "outside" the family for the most part. -- finding these men would be liike bringing them to life agian --- "freeing" them from being lost souls and closing the book on final chapter of their lives.

not everything that occured in history was neatly written down -- and some that was is in error --- battles are often written about after the fact -- commanders twist facts to fit how they "think" things occured or to cover their "mistakes"--its the nature of mankind -- the victors of wars write the history of it. -- a small detatchment of men retreating in the dark after a very bloody battle , become seperated in the dark from the main group --with no one in the main body of the retreating army aware of it ---when the roll calls are called later on their simply not there "MIA" is the word --missing in action"--- with the small group being totally wiped out -- so theres no one to tell of the event except for the men who killed them and burnt them and a handful of witness (who were pro southern supporters )---to speak of it was to invite northern "payback" upon your family and home --so the mouths stayed shut --one did not tell even ones freinds and neighbors for fear it might get leaked.
 

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