found tip possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (update)

[ivan salis]

found tip possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (update)

while chatting with a local fellow doing a bit of research on a confederate camp site area in my area -- the person spoke of a "missing" union unit --a white officer commanding a small foot patrol unit of black soldiers ( said to be between 30 to 50 men) -- these men ran into a much larger rebel unit and got "boxed in" refusing to surrender ( the white officer was killed early on in the fight and it seems the black troops feared being hanged if they surrendered as this was wide spread belief --true or not --that this would occur if the black troops were caught by southern troops) so they fought to the death to the last man. -- after the fight for them refusing to surrender and thus forcing additional fighting which caused some additional maiming and killing of some of the southern soldiers (several more than if they had just surrendered when asked to )-- the angry southern soldiers piled their bodies in a heap and burnt them in revenge . --- the man who told me said his grandmother told him of it as a child --and said that she knew because it was upon her great grandpa's land (who was alive at the time * and told her as a kid) he was there when the event occured in the civil war -I have also found out from the man I spoke to that according to him no union troops ever came in the area to "look" for the "lost union patrol". so upon that bit of land is the burnt remains of between 30 to 50 men of the "lost patrol"-- I hope to attempt to find their remains ( if I can get land owner ok) and have them properly honored if I can.

later note ****this is freakish -- after completing the above post --I felt "compelled" to go see if this possible "site" had been developed or not --at 1 am in the morning mind you and its a fair bit from home --got in the car drove down there a sort of a remote area -- after seeing the spot -- I could have returned the way I came or take the long way around -- the was a small creek a bit down the other long road way --very possibly were the lost patrol got pinned in at --so I go that way -- as I approach it , it appears somethings in the road --the night fog was coming in but the image of something snaps me to --in the fog is a totally wrecked car with someone in it still --the car is still steaming and leaking gas --it had to have just occurred- I help the driver out ---the driver is muttering I thought I saw something in the road so I swerved -- its clear to see he went off the curve by the bridge --hitting trees with his passenger side which spun his car back on the road -- totally fubar ed-- the 20ish something kids beat up and bleeding but lucky to be alive --all he can do is cry "my car" over and over --silly kid -- hes standing by the car in the road even after I told him it might blow stay away from it -- then a huge dually type pick up comes flying like a bat outta --- down the road right at the no lights on wreck with the kid between the two --I flash my brights up and down several times to alert the oncoming truck --he pays no mind -- only at the last second does he see it and slam on brakes --close call--if I had not alerted him he would have plowed right into it kid wreck and leaking gas and all --boom. -- you know the "lost patrol" bodies was burnt to a crisp.-- this is freaky indeed. === the dually truck never even stopped just went around us on the berm "rolled on"

 

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[ivan salis]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

it might be some of the 506 MIA's-- heck thats 10% of the total union forces * in all that were at the battle --with over 10% of their command unaccounted for as missing in action ( I think its clear the "retreat" was anything but orderly )--the unions losses would have been worse but the confederates follow up -after the defeated union troops was sloppy --and after taking such a beating the union troops had a very long trip back to jacksonville while being chased by confederates -- they passed thru baldwin , florida during their retreat --which of course is about 20 miles from my home --the area around here was well known for being rebel "freindly" country during the war and many of the local families served in the confederate cause. ( a lot as calvary folks) --- during the raid on callahan,florida -- on july 17th of 1864 * the 100 black foot soldiers and 125 calvary --arrested washington broward & joseph hagan , burnt the home of mr jones ( known rebel) & joel wingate as well-- and freed slaves from the gigier farm --took horses from elizah higgenbottom -- my spelling might be off a bit but in in the records of capt JJ dickerson --local confedrate commander of the area at the time.

the event might have occured before --during or after the battle of olustee , I still trying to find out the details -- its sort of a shameful family passed down secret --something no ones too proud of ( they did not do it --the event just happened to have took place on their land) however if it had been reveled at the time during the war it would have caused real problems to land owner most likely since they were pro rebel ( had family in the southern army ) and for the families of those who actually done the deed as well - the union troops would have shown up burning their homes and taking or killing the livestock -- arresting the families ( women and kids) and shooting the men ( or at least prisoner of war)-- the civil war was hell , nothing "civil" about it.

 

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[NGE]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

I commend you Mr. Salis of sticking to yer guns , Not only was this war NOT civil, but nothing was impossible. Even if all you do is prove this case wrong, It is the best that you could do. Don't let anyone dissuade you from your quest, keep on doing what you do best (Research) and if you find that it is not true, let it be written in the minds and books of this world. If you do find that it is true and can prove it with burned bones and many piles of buttons, then let the naysayers hang their heads in shame .............NGE

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

It would be great if there was a document for every step of a treasure hunt, but that is not reality. If someone has such leads, please share one with me.
You have to step out and see if you can find reason to believe a story or not, but you can't afford to doubt from the start. Then you would never start.

-Peace-

 

[Goodyguy]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

later note ****this is freakish -- after completing the above post --I felt "compelled" to go see if this possible "site" had been developed or not --at 1 am in the morning mind you and its a fair bit from home --got in the car drove down there a sort of a remote area -- after seeing the spot -- I could have returned the way I came or take the long way around -- the was a small creek a bit down the other long road way --very possibly were the lost patrol got pinned in at --so I go that way -- as I approach it , it appears somethings in the road --the night fog was coming in but the image of something snaps me to --in the fog is a totally wrecked car with someone in it still --the car is still steaming and leaking gas --it had to have just occurred- I help the driver out ---the driver is muttering I thought I saw something in the road so I swerved -- its clear to see he went off the curve by the bridge --hitting trees with his passenger side which spun his car back on the road -- totally fubar ed-- the 20ish something kids beat up and bleeding but lucky to be alive --all he can do is cry "my car" over and over --silly kid -- hes standing by the car in the road even after I told him it might blow stay away from it -- then a huge dually type pick up comes flying like a bat outta --- down the road right at the no lights on wreck with the kid between the two --I flash my brights up and down several times to alert the oncoming truck --he pays no mind -- only at the last second does he see it and slam on brakes --close call--if I had not alerted him he would have plowed right into it kid wreck and leaking gas and all --boom. -- you know the "lost patrol" bodies was burnt to a crisp.-- this is freaky indeed. === the dually truck never even stopped just went around us on the berm "rolled on"

Just wondering what the driver thought he saw in the road? A ghostly apparition of a burned CW soldier?

Anyway Ivan, glad you were there to help out and your timing makes one wonder.......Coincidence? ...or...Divine intervention?

Either way "You Da Man"


GG~

 

[rogues71]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

keep us posted on the diggs

 

[ivan salis]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

swr -- its clear from the offical union loss records of the battle of olustee that there were many MIA's (506) * or about 10% of the total amount of union troops that were there (*about 5,000)--- the retreat was not neat and orderly at all -- it was a near rout -- the losses would have been much worse had the rebel forces properly chased after the union forces promptly as they should have --but they were leary of being ambushed by the rear guard units .--while the battle of olustee in general was much written about later on*** in the safety of jacksonville , florida afterwards (often volumes of papers about failed battles are written as various commanders try to shift "bllame" for their failure or make excuses as to why their battle plans failed or why their troops preformed poorly.

since there is no accounting as to where or when or how these 506 troops "dissappeared" --is it fair to say they didn't ? they have to be somewhere didn't they ? -- it is possible that this group was a small band of straglers trying to limp their way along trying to catch up with the main union forces as they retreated ? if so no one in the main union forces would know of them till they "hooked" up again --they would be MIA* and since the small band was totally wiped out --their would be no one left to "record" their last moments --except for the confederates who did the deed and the people upon whos land the event occured (southern loyal folks) ---recording this type of event or speaking of it was not a smart thing to do at the time -- since union raiding troops if they found out what had occured would do "payback" if they found out about it --thus --it got sweep under the rug historically speaking --( thus it was unwritten about ---only a oral family record of the event was kept passed down thru the family )--a dirty little secert not spoken of for many years to "outsiders" * that only has reared its head after many many years later now that its safe to speak of it
---when I started asking questions about a confederate calvary camp in the area (been trying to lock down its location) the man I spoke to kinfolks were well known to be in in the confederate calvary 1st fla unit -- and he told me the "story" ---he is the direct decendant of the land owner upon whos land the event occured --I still have to ask him more questions to see if they know roughly where upon their land it occured --it was a very big farm back then --- also I trying to lock down the time frame --pre ---post or during the olustee battle time frame.--because it may or may not be olustee related .

 

[ivan salis]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

if while leaving the battle feild a small group of men (30 to 50) got detached from the main union forces group as it was retreating during the night---who in the main group would know where they went to or what became of them? no one thats who so they would be listed as MIA --missing in action----and if the small group was wiped out --who would be left to report to union headquarters what became of them --no one thats who, so they would stay MIA--- no one except for those confederates who did the deed of wiping them out and burning the bodies would know what had become of them--(and the rebel forces wouldn't say squat for fear of "payback" by the union troops ) -- so this story would just "disappear" at the time something done but best not spoken of ( a dirty lil secret)-- only now many many years later can be it told safely , since all those who took part in it are all long dead . -- its logical and there are a lot of MIA's from the battle of olustee. (506 to the best of my knowledge)

swr you of course may think differantly on the matter -- and its your right to think so -- HOWEVER I know that sometimes when everthing is not just neatly written down history wize , where you can just fact it in print easily --(where one has to do ones own "boots on the ground" fact finding mission)--- sometimes theres "gaps" and one must think about about what might have occured using the info you already have to help fill in those gaps to get a better ideal of what might have occured, -- its called "creative thinking"--now I do not totally make up non sense stories -- I do honestly try to link up with known events to see what might have occured --because somewhere out there is 506 dead men from the battle of olusteethat are MIA who's stories deserve to be told.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)



Stop arguing and go find this pile of dead men already!

It should be close to 10 pm there now... almost time to head out.

*********************

Anyway... I found this of interest, not that it's gospel.

Source: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/FL-OLUSTEE-BATTLE-KIN/2006-10/1161585559

"In the 1860s and long after that, Florida was about the tail end of
nowhere. There are very few marked individual Confederate graves in
Florida and there was also a general dearth of record-keeping in the
area. With Florida battles such as Olustee, Marianna and Natural
Bridge, Union units that might be thought of as generally having better
records, were hampered by campaigns a considerable distance from any
really secure Federal area and rapid retrograde operations after the
battles. In spite of any intentions that Union forces may have had of
occupying areas they moved into during these campaigns, that just didn't
happen. So, the Confederates held the fields after the battles and they
had little capacity to record their own burials much less of any Union
casualties left on the field. They didn't even necessarily remain in
the battle areas in significant force for very long. They were
defending large areas of territory and considerable mobility was often
involved. But specifically as to Olustee, it is a matter of record that
the Union casualties buried by the Confederates were not identified, not
even one of the field grade Union officers. Further, it is recorded
that the Union graves at Olustee were shallow and that the bodies were
rooted out by hogs, which was not a situation unique to Olustee. After
the war a detail of the 7th U.S. Infantry gathered up and re-interred
what bones they could find, and there is a single monument because there
was a single burial site (this is not unique to Olustee either, and
example of mass graves of Confederates... not battle casualties but
deaths during imprisonment... include those at Chicago, IL, and Point
Lookout, MD). More unclear (to me at least) is what happened to
Confederate burials at the battlefield. Lt. Hoffman of the 7th U.S.
Infantry mentioned Confederate graves (undisturbed as of that time) on
the other side of the railroad in his report about the re-interrment of
the Union casualties. There seems to be a belief that those
Confederates were later reinterred at Lake City, but I have seen no
historical documentation of that as fact. If anyone has, I would love
to see a citation of the source."

 

[ivan salis]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

jim ---going to chat tomorrow with the man -- whos family owned the land back then to see if he can be more "forth coming" as to the exact location / area --then secure the modern land owners permission as well --I think its still in the "family" --so chances are good I think. -- uh think I'll stick to daylight looking --thank you very much , enough of that stuff for now.

 

[truckinbutch]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Ivan , my money is on you . Don't quit your search because of one naysayer .
I listened to a tale told by an old 'Granny Woman' when I was a gradeschool ankle biter and remembered it when I was grown . Followed the trail of her tale and verified that what she had told us was true .
No money . The reward was in vindicating that wonderful old Lady that had entertained us kids with her stories that I proved to be true .
Go find your lost patrol
Jim

 

[ivan salis]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

even taken into account the POW'S that still leaves a lot of folks unaccounted for * this might very well account for some of em.

its worth looking into , in my veiw -- my time , my effort

 

[ivan salis]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

that is possible --the event could be related to it --or it might not --it could be be from before or after the battle occured (thus totally non related) -- again I say the exact time frame was not stated by the man -- more questioning needs to be done to figger out more about it exactly -- but with its large amount of MIA'S the story if true MIGHT be a small group lost during the night from the union army's main body as they retreated during the night towards baldwin / jacksonville .

 

[Dimeman]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

that is possible --the event could be related to it --or it might not --it could be be from before or after the battle occured (thus totally non related) -- again I say the exact time frame was not stated by the man -- more questioning needs to be done to figger out more about it exactly -- but with its large amount of MIA'S the story if true MIGHT be a small group lost during the night from the union army's main body as they retreated during the night towards baldwin / jacksonville .

Ivan,
If you think that it is a lead for something then go for it.
You already recieved a message to be there at a specific time, and you saved a life. You are meant to follow the lead and solve whatever it is you are supposed to.
From your past posts on here you are very good about researching your leads.
Go find what you are meant to find.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Any followup on the car accident?

I tried to read about it in the Nassau County Record to see what kind of excuse the kid told the cops but there was no story. Maybe it never made the paper.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

the accident took place on jones road * thus in jacksonville --- it dead ends into garden road -- going from the "T" when the two meet --with jones being the long up and down part of the T -- its down it a ways -- ypu go over a set of train tracks around a set of curves the a bridge over a small creek the amother set of curves * its more in the "jacksonville" area -- a fair bit from my home really --

to "road map " google track my trip --go from callahan south down US 1 to garden --( just before you get to 295 )-- turn right follow it it will sharp turn 90 degrees to the left stay on it till it dead ends --this road is also called "garden" --turn right 90 degrees stay wth it -- it will "T" join with "jones"---turn left 90 degrees go down on jones -- a bit down jones theres a creek around the creek area is curves upon them is where the wreck occured. early in the am hours of friday oct 2nd .

no dead body , so little press most likely -- the 20ish something kid did say he was visiting folks locally and was from NC-- other than that all he did was cry about --"my car dude my car " -- seemed like he didn't get the fact he was lucky (blessed) to still be alive.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

the accident took place on jones road * thus in jacksonville --- it dead ends into garden road -- going from the "T" when the two meet --with jones being the long up and down part of the T -- its down it a ways -- ypu go over a set of train tracks around a set of curves the a bridge over a small creek the amother set of curves * its more in the "jacksonville" area -- a fair bit from my home really --

to "road map " google track my trip --go from callahan south down US 1 to garden --( just before you get to 295 )-- turn right follow it it will sharp turn 90 degrees to the left stay on it till it dead ends --this road is also called "garden" --turn right 90 degrees stay wth it -- it will "T" join with "jones"---turn left 90 degrees go down on jones -- a bit down jones theres a creek around the creek area is curves upon them is where the wreck occured. early in the am hours of friday oct 2nd .

no dead body , so little press most likely -- the 20ish something kid did say he was visiting folks locally and was from NC-- other than that all he did was cry about --"my car dude my car " -- seemed like he didn't get the fact he was lucky (blessed) to still be alive.

Yea... I understand, no death, no story.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Any followup on the car accident?

I tried to read about it in the Nassau County Record to see what kind of excuse the kid told the cops but there was no story. Maybe it never made the paper.

Call the police station. They might not tell you anything, but if you really want to know, it might be worth a try.

Have we fallen into having to prove other people's statements when they talk about a lead? Is our own life really that boring?

 

[gmstreet]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Who cares if it's fact or folklore, a kid's life was saved in the pursuit of finding out. Sometimes research can be overrated. So you go looking for a rumored site, you may find it, you may find something else, maybe old grandpas cache Half the fun of treasure hunting is the dream of what's there. If we know for fact that a lead is totally false, we won't look there at all. I can say some of my best finds have hit me by suprise, while I was looking for something else. However if you are interested in finding a specific known treasure, research is all too important to disregard. But the goosechases are fun too.

GREG

 

[ivan salis]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

its highly doubtful the nassau record newspaper would carry it for several reasons --#1--the accident occured on jones road (a good bit into jacksoville . thus outside of my local homepapers area) #2-- there was no death-- it was just a wreck ( thus of low "news" interest if its death or tragic * it leads in small town papers ) -- #3 it occured in the wee am hours of friday oct 2 nd --the nassau records "lead " time even if carried is way before that *--thus this weeks edition was already "pressed"

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: found tip to possible location of "missing " union patrol from civil war (more)

Ivan - it's fine, I was just chatting. I'm not questioning the event, just wanted to read about it. I cannot imagine why on earth you would state something like that unless it happened exactly like that.

Any followup on the car accident?

I tried to read about it in the Nassau County Record to see what kind of excuse the kid told the cops but there was no story. Maybe it never made the paper.

Call the police station. They might not tell you anything, but if you really want to know, it might be worth a try.

Have we fallen into having to prove other people's statements when they talk about a lead? Is our own life really that boring?

Um... I've been contributing to the conversation - Did you read the article I posted supporting the possibility of poor records and rooting hogs? All you've been doing is giving SWR a hard time. So, I wanted to read about the accident, I asked a question, Ivan responded, now I'm catching hell from you? Frankly - it's none of your business.

If you don't mind (which I know you do), I'm not interested in your approval.

Goto bed. Don't trip over your attitude on the way.