Dutchman's Caches

[OldManOfTheRiver]

I see your point. But that brings up other issues. How long did he "have" the mine? Depends on which version of the story you believe. One version says his girlfriend an Apache showed him the source of the gold and he only went there once and the Apaches raided and killed her. Another version says that him and wiser came across some Mexicans and they killed them both and Walt's went back into town for supplies and came back and wiser was dead or missing and he left and didn't come back after that. Another version says that he befriended the "Peralta" and got a map or was taken there. And yet another version says that he was being chased by the Indians through the Superstitions and came upon a Mexican camp, and the Mexicans showed him the mine and then he killed them. So I don't believe there is one single source that says how long he actually "worked" it.

I'm not worked up at all about it. I just wonder how the dialog actually went. Did he just walk around and drop random bits of information? Or was it a conversation that he had with someone, and that person wrote him off for most of the story, until they realized that he was telling the truth, and it was too late to remember all the details. Some people claim that he was a liar and a drunk. So would people just assume that he was drunk, and therefore dismiss him?

I personally don't think that he would just randomly drop "clues".

They cut her tongue out and he ran. At least that's my understanding of that legend. Poor Ken-Tee. The other one where he was chased and they took his camp gear makes a little more sense but imagine the luck involved in just happening upon a fresh set of tracks and following them to a camp. If you believe that story then that makes the Mexicans that were working it pretty ballsy to take in a stranger and then have the confidence to show him their workings. I tend to prefer the latter story but maybe they are entwined somehow that we don't know yet. I haven't seen a lot of evidence to support that Ken-Tee ever existed but somewhere in the all the hearsay is/are grains of truth. Maybe he was a drunk, or a heavy drinker, heck I drink a lot too, and perhaps he felt bad about either killing the Mexicans who were good to him or he made that up to obfuscate the fact that he and Ken-Tee were ambushed and he abandoned her.

Either way it's pretty sad over a crappy little gold mine to be honest. However the one germane truth in his stories is that he was either ambushed by three Apache at daybreak who took his camp outfit and he was headed on foot back to Ft. McDowell when he struck the trail or his girlfriend, poor Ken-Tee, showed him a mine that was on sacred ground and they were ambushed there and he abandoned her and ran and then fabricated the story about the Mexican outfit.

If he did in fact abandon Ken-Tee then why didn't the Apache come gunning for him since he abandoned his lover? Maybe they didn't care, but he was still living so he still knew where the location was. Or perhaps they let Ken-Tee live since she was one of theirs with the understanding that if Waltz told anyone where the mine was that they would kill her with the narrative being that they let her live but they figuratively cut his tongue out by letting her live. So he'd sneak back up there and work a bit now and then but knew if they made a stake on it that she'd die and perhaps he couldn't let that happen.

He was deffo hiding something. The thing is though that he was capable of great kindness and compassion. It isn't much fun to have guns pulled on you and perhaps he was very ashamed of something he did with respect to either his nephew or Ken-Tee or the three Mexicans. However, it's still interesting that someone used Watlz's shotgun to kill a Mexican at his homestead and then put the gun back over his door. I've often wondered if that Mexican in Phoenix at his homestead didn't come looking for him, for a reason.

 

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[Idahodutch]

Here are some of the German Clues just to throw a curve in everything. Lol.

Old Man,
Thanks for posting those . . I like them. . They must be real seriously thou, I do like them.
The one about the peak to the south with a hole in it. . . Wouldn't be Palomino now would it?
I mean how many peaks got a hole in them that fit the classic area? I heard about that clue before, but not quite like that, or that it was in German in it's original. That one should have been obvious to me, but for some reason it wasn't.. . . sorry, . . . add another clue that fits this ravine I guess (but only if the peak is Palomino). ………….wow

Very cool for posting that Old Man
Thanks again for posting it.

. . . . 3 kilometers from springs as well, but this one could fit a lot of areas, but the springs is probably one of the springs that he liked to use. . . just pondering

 

[Idahodutch]

Helen Corbin's The Lost Dutchman's Bible

Thanks MC4500,
I'll Check it out
Idaho

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Here are some of the German Clues just to throw a curve in everything. Lol.

Old Man,
Thanks for posting those . . I like them. . They must be real seriously thou, I do like them.
The one about the peak to the south with a hole in it. . . Wouldn't be Palomino now would it?
I mean how many peaks got a hole in them that fit the classic area? I heard about that clue before, but not quite like that, or that it was in German in it's original. That one should have been obvious to me, but for some reason it wasn't.. . . sorry, . . . add another clue that fits this ravine I guess (but only if the peak is Palomino). ………….wow

Very cool for posting that Old Man
Thanks again for posting it.

Those are the German Clues from Helen's book. Not sure if they are historically valid but they seem to have some basis in it. Lots of discussion on DesertUSA you google the "German Clues DesertUSA"

The thing is this mine or cache or as I tend to believe a very ancient Native sacred area is very, very, well hidden until all the clues fit. There are more but I don't want to get zapped for copyright infringement. Jim Hatt uploaded these years ago so I assume they are fine for copyright.

 

[Idahodutch]

Thanks Old Man,
That 2 votes for Helen Corbin's book, I have to see what I can find
Idaho

 

[Idahodutch]

Peak with the Hole in it

Here are some of the German Clues just to throw a curve in everything. Lol.

Old Man,
Thanks for posting those . . I like them. . They must be real seriously thou, I do like them.
The one about the peak to the south with a hole in it. . . Wouldn't be Palomino now would it?
I mean how many peaks got a hole in them that fit the classic area? I heard about that clue before, but not quite like that, or that it was in German in it's original. That one should have been obvious to me, but for some reason it wasn't.. . . sorry, . . . add another clue that fits this ravine I guess (but only if the peak is Palomino). ………….wow

Very cool for posting that Old Man
Thanks again for posting it.

. . . 3 kilometers from springs as well, but this one could fit a lot of areas, but the springs is probably one of the springs that he liked to use. . . just pondering

Here are a couple of pics of the hole in Palomino Mountain; East face and West face. (I barrowed them from the net, but I can confirm that this is Palomino Mnt.)
Some folks may be trying to confirm the hole in Palomino and only have GE, and I don't think GE shows this. It is a good tool but doesn't always get you there.

 

[Mc4500]

Here are a couple of pics of the hole in Palomino Mountain; East face and West face. (I barrowed them from the net, but I can confirm that this is Palomino Mnt.)
Some folks may be trying to confirm the hole in Palomino and only have GE, and I don't think GE shows this. It is a good tool but doesn't always get you there.

View attachment 1778602View attachment 1778603

Hmmm. Here's another peak with a hole in it.

 

[Idahodutch]

Hmmm. Here's another peak with a hole in it. View attachment 1778604View attachment 1778604

Mc450,
That's Great, Are you able to see that peak off in the distance to the south like the German clue?
Hopefully there are some more clues to go with that one. If it is the site, there should be many that fit.

 

[markmar]

Here are some of the German Clues just to throw a curve in everything. Lol.

Old Man,
Thanks for posting those . . I like them. . They must be real seriously thou, I do like them.
The one about the peak to the south with a hole in it. . . Wouldn't be Palomino now would it?
I mean how many peaks got a hole in them that fit the classic area? I heard about that clue before, but not quite like that, or that it was in German in it's original. That one should have been obvious to me, but for some reason it wasn't.. . . sorry, . . . add another clue that fits this ravine I guess (but only if the peak is Palomino). ………….wow

Very cool for posting that Old Man
Thanks again for posting it.

. . . . 3 kilometers from springs as well, but this one could fit a lot of areas, but the springs is probably one of the springs that he liked to use. . . just pondering

Idaho

The German clue about the peak with a hole is wrong translated in English. We have examined this clue about two years ago and BlakLine, Tnet member and German citizen, gave as the correct translation in English. You can see it at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...67-pit-mine-really-lost-dutchman-mine-81.html

 

[Idahodutch]

Idaho

The German clue about the peak with a hole is wrong translated in English. We have examined this clue about two years ago nad BlakLine, Tnet member and german citizen, gave as the correct translation in English. You can see it at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...67-pit-mine-really-lost-dutchman-mine-81.html

Hello markmar,
Tanks for posting the link. Here is a GE from saddle of ravine looking toward Palomino. Like I mentioned earlier, GE does not reflect true natural look of Palomino, however, the clue still fits (and quite nicely). Dead center of the image is Palomino - looks like the top was chopped off. Is why I posted the photos a few posts back.

 

[Blindbowman]

Helen Corbin's The Lost Dutchman's Bible

very true but the account I trusted came from Clay Worst and he stated he had herd the account from someone he knew . I forget who right off hand but I tells the whole account on secrets of the superstitions ..you would be best to do you tube search ....the man clay was talking about but on the largest search for the LDM that has ever been done .I just watch that video a few days ago so I know its still out there ..I guess the man was searching for gold vanes or old mines . Waltz was one of the men ton that search and when it was over . waltz went back into the supers by him self ....good luck ..

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I his death bed story he says "there's a trap in the entrance that will kill anyone who accidentally finds the mine."

I was wondering if his directions "find the rock face and then the rock house. You have to do that." were his directions on how to disarm the trap.

If the entrance is buried, then a glass jar full of arsenic in the dirt would break if someone didn't know it was there. Maybe the rock house in the entrance would show the person the bottle.

Just my thoughts on it.

Not just here, but death traps everywhere ... would only work ( if they even ever would) on ONLY the first incident. Who would be running around resetting them? Apologies to Indiana Jones....

 

[sdcfia]

Not just here, but death traps everywhere ... would only work ( if they even ever would) on ONLY the first incident. Who would be running around resetting them? Apologies to Indiana Jones....

Oh, look - a sprung death trap! Poor guy. Oh, well, drag his bones outta the way so we can waltz in and collect the gold bars.

 

[Mc4500]

Not just here, but death traps everywhere ... would only work ( if they even ever would) on ONLY the first incident. Who would be running around resetting them? Apologies to Indiana Jones....

Well if someone found it, why wouldn't they reset it if they had to leave? Or at least put some kind of trap to try and keep it safe.

 

[Idahodutch]

Well if someone found it, why wouldn't they reset it if they had to leave? Or at least put some kind of trap to try and keep it safe.

Mc4500,
If you have great concern about booby traps, why look for burried treasure left behind by someone else?
I am curious though, if you were to find something in the Wilderness Area, would you really set a trap to keep it safe?
Sincerely, Idaho

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Weelp, N 100 respirators are cheap on Amazon. Probably just as good to have one on as not, just in case. Color me paranoid. Bat guano is pretty nasty too if inhaled as a dust so I guess having a respirator is just as good as having a water filter out there.

Mc4500 if I ever find it I am moving there. Forest Service be damned. You can come too, I have my .25-06 and a .300 Winch and of course we'll need snipers and picket posts. :P

In all seriousness a little caution is probably a good thing. Wonder if there is drone deliveries out from Mesa for the essentials like McDonalds and Starbux. Of course they'll have to trust we'll send the gold back as payment after they deliver. Haha.

I'm with you dude. Nobody is gonna leave a fortune unprotected.

 

[azdave35]

Mc4500,
If you have great concern about booby traps, why look for burried treasure left behind by someone else?
I am curious though, if you were to find something in the Wilderness Area, would you really set a trap to keep it safe?
Sincerely, Idaho

if there has ever been a reported incident where a man set off a booby trap in the supers i'd like to hear about it..i've been here most of my life and never heard of one

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

P.S: What if Wagoners Ledge, The LDM and the Adams Diggings are all the same thing? It's getting to me boys. Might need to check myself in before I have the Aztec treasure there as well. Haha.

Please continue and good day all.

-D

 

[Idahodutch]

Weelp, N 100 respirators are cheap on Amazon. Probably just as good to have one on as not, just in case. Color me paranoid. Bat guano is pretty nasty too if inhaled as a dust so I guess having a respirator is just as good as having a water filter out there.

Mc4500 if I ever find it I am moving there. Forest Service be damned. You can come too, I have my .25-06 and a .300 Winch and of course we'll need snipers and picket posts. :P

In all seriousness a little caution is probably a good thing. Wonder if there is drone deliveries out from Mesa for the essentials like McDonalds and Starbux. Of course they'll have to trust we'll send the gold back as payment after they deliver. Haha.

I'm with you dude. Nobody is gonna leave a fortune unprotected.

Old man, a lot of the folks that try to protect a fortune, are basically sending up a signal flare, saying "I must have something to protect" . . . IMHO
Idahodutch

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

It's real simple fellas. We'll just plow it under like this once we find it and defuse the bomb. We might need to take this rig in there to that "well terraced hill". This is how gram-pappy did it back in aught '5 and if it was good enough for him it'll be just fine fer us. Please continue. I'll shaddup now. Haha.