Dutchman's Caches

[Mc4500]

Agree with Dave - I have never seen or read about any booby-traps. Could someone please enlighten me with a reference to it?

I his death bed story he says "there's a trap in the entrance that will kill anyone who accidentally finds the mine."

I was wondering if his directions "find the rock face and then the rock house. You have to do that." were his directions on how to disarm the trap.

If the entrance is buried, then a glass jar full of arsenic in the dirt would break if someone didn't know it was there. Maybe the rock house in the entrance would show the person the bottle.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[OldManOfTheRiver]

I his death bed story he says "there's a trap in the entrance that will kill anyone who accidentally finds the mine."

I was wondering if his directions "find the rock face and then the rock house. You have to do that." were his directions on how to disarm the trap.

If the entrance is buried, then a glass jar full of arsenic in the dirt would break if someone didn't know it was there. Maybe the rock house in the entrance would show the person the bottle.

Just my thoughts on it.

That's a really good thought Mc4500. He also mentioned 4 workings and then his caches so I am not sure which one or if all of them are booby trapped. One thing about arsenic in a jar it would be fresh and ready even after 100 years!

 

[Mc4500]

That's a really good thought Mc4500. He also mentioned 4 workings and then his caches so I am not sure which one or if all of them are booby trapped. One thing about arsenic in a jar it would be fresh and ready even after 100 years!

Thank you.

I think he only booby trapped "his" mine. He only mentioned it at the very end of his story when he was giving very descriptive information about the final "clues". I think if he did something to all of them, then he would have made a point to say that. I think his stashes are clear, "I hid the gold near the entrance", and "you will never find the mine without finding the stash first and you can't find the stash until first find the mine. The mine is completely hidden." so he talks about the stash being hidden as well as the mine is, and nearby, but no mention of a trap.

 

[Idahodutch]

I his death bed story he says "there's a trap in the entrance that will kill anyone who accidentally finds the mine."

I was wondering if his directions "find the rock face and then the rock house. You have to do that." were his directions on how to disarm the trap.

If the entrance is buried, then a glass jar full of arsenic in the dirt would break if someone didn't know it was there. Maybe the rock house in the entrance would show the person the bottle.

Just my thoughts on it.

Mc4500, I don't recall ever reading the death bed stuff , I think I just never got hands on it, then probably got distracted - sometimes it happens . . .Sounds like something to it. . I should have tried harder to pursue that . . The directions, find the rock face, then the rock house........could these be cashe spots?
Was there more to the context on that particular direction?
Thanks,
Idahodutch

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Mc4500, I don't recall ever reading the death bed stuff , I think I just never got hands on it, then probably got distracted - sometimes it happens . . .Sounds like something to it. . I should have tried harder to pursue that . . The directions, find the rock face, then the rock house........could these be cashe spots?
Was there more to the context on that particular direction?
Thanks,
Idahodutch

No, you find the rock house first.

 

[Idahodutch]

No, you find the rock house first.

The Dutchman was sort of tricky
If there is somebody that knows for sure, then it's been kept pretty quiet.
Stuff that makes you think . .

 

[Mc4500]

The Dutchman was sort of tricky
If there is somebody that knows for sure, then it's been kept pretty quiet.
Stuff that makes you think . .

I don't necessarily think he was tricky, well I can argue both sides, but I lean towards people not paying attention. People who heard him talking would call him a drunk, so I believe they dismissed him

 

[Idahodutch]

I don't necessarily think he was tricky, well I can argue both sides, but I lean towards people not paying attention. People who heard him talking would call him a drunk, so I believe they dismissed him

Mc4500,
I suppose that the term "tricky" is subjective. Depends on where a person sets the bar. All he did was stump a whole lot of folk. I'd say he was trickier than some, maybe most.

 

[Idahodutch]

Mc,
It can be hard to admit, but if you haven't found the LDM, then just maybe he was tricky enough to stump you. . . If this ravine is not the home of the LDM, then I am stumped as well. Just saying . .
Idahodutch

 

[Mc4500]

No, you find the rock house first.

Not to argue, but I have seen it written both ways. And in my opinion because it's been written both ways it could be either or, since there's no definitive accurate source for the information. It would be easy to mix the information up. Even Julia and Rhyney said that they didn't remember everything he said exactly. So there is definitely room for error. Just my opinion.

 

[markmar]

A GE image of the Waltz's mine region. Down to the left corner at the juniper tree is the Waltz's mine and up to the right corner is the two room house ruin, about 150 feet afar across the gulch.

View attachment 1778477

 

[Mc4500]

A GE image of the Waltz's mine region. Down to the left corner at the juniper tree is the Waltz's mine and up to the right corner is the two room house ruin, about 150 feet afar across the gulch.

View attachment 1778477

I beg to differ, but everyone has their own opinion!

 

[Mc4500]

Mc,
It can be hard to admit, but if you haven't found the LDM, then just maybe he was tricky enough to stump you. . . If this ravine is not the home of the LDM, then I am stumped as well. Just saying . .
Idahodutch

I'm not claiming anything either way. I don't personally think he was tricky I think the information wasn't written down or remembered correctly. I think it's been mixed up and changed throughout the last century. And not only that there are hundreds of quote-unquote clues, legends, stories or directions associated with the lost Dutchman and the Superstition Mountains.

 

[Idahodutch]

I'm not claiming anything either way. I don't personally think he was tricky I think the information wasn't written down or remembered correctly. I think it's been mixed up and changed throughout the last century. And not only that there are hundreds of quote-unquote clues, legends, stories or directions associated with the lost Dutchman and the Superstition Mountains.

Mc4500,
Don't get me wrong, I'm really not trying to stir you up. Personally, I tend to think that the folks that heard clues from Waltz' mouth, that also believed he had a gold mine, were hanging on every word. After that, All bets are off, because you are talking their memory. I agree that there is a lot of stuff that is hard to sort at best. But how many other prospectors that found a rich gold mine, were able to keep it to themselves. . . or for how long . . . waltz gave clues, and yet did not give it away. You gotta give the guy some credit.

 

[Mc4500]

Mc4500,
Don't get me wrong, I'm really not trying to stir you up. Personally, I tend to think that the folks that heard clues from Waltz' mouth, that also believed he had a gold mine, were hanging on every word. After that, All bets are off, because you are talking their memory. I agree that there is a lot of stuff that is hard to sort at best. But how many other prospectors that found a rich gold mine, were able to keep it to themselves. . . or for how long . . . waltz gave clues, and yet did not give it away. You gotta give the guy some credit.

I see your point. But that brings up other issues. How long did he "have" the mine? Depends on which version of the story you believe. One version says his girlfriend an Apache showed him the source of the gold and he only went there once and the Apaches raided and killed her. Another version says that him and wiser came across some Mexicans and they killed them both and Walt's went back into town for supplies and came back and wiser was dead or missing and he left and didn't come back after that. Another version says that he befriended the "Peralta" and got a map or was taken there. And yet another version says that he was being chased by the Indians through the Superstitions and came upon a Mexican camp, and the Mexicans showed him the mine and then he killed them. So I don't believe there is one single source that says how long he actually "worked" it.

I'm not worked up at all about it. I just wonder how the dialog actually went. Did he just walk around and drop random bits of information? Or was it a conversation that he had with someone, and that person wrote him off for most of the story, until they realized that he was telling the truth, and it was too late to remember all the details. Some people claim that he was a liar and a drunk. So would people just assume that he was drunk, and therefore dismiss him?

I personally don't think that he would just randomly drop "clues".

 

[Idahodutch]

I see your point. But that brings up other issues. How long did he "have" the mine? Depends on which version of the story you believe. One version says his girlfriend an Apache showed him the source of the gold and he only went there once and the Apaches raided and killed her. Another version says that him and wiser came across some Mexicans and they killed them both and Walt's went back into town for supplies and came back and wiser was dead or missing and he left and didn't come back after that. Another version says that he befriended the "Peralta" and got a map or was taken there. And yet another version says that he was being chased by the Indians through the Superstitions and came upon a Mexican camp, and the Mexicans showed him the mine and then he killed them. So I don't believe there is one single source that says how long he actually "worked" it.

I'm not worked up at all about it. I just wonder how the dialog actually went. Did he just walk around and drop random bits of information? Or was it a conversation that he had with someone, and that person wrote him off for most of the story, until they realized that he was telling the truth, and it was too late to remember all the details. Some people claim that he was a liar and a drunk. So would people just assume that he was drunk, and therefore dismiss him?

I personally don't think that he would just randomly drop "clues".

You bring up great questions. I personally have not done the research that yielded what seems to be pretty good signs/evidence backing up a span 20 years or more. . on and off that he went to the mine. There are folks on this forum that have done extensive research and some of it has been shared . . bits here and there, sometimes more than bits. There are a lot of threads on the LDM forum here. Could save you a lot of very time if that is an area that you need to firm up on before going full blast.

I was smiling when reading your post, . . It would have been great to be a fly on the wall (so to speak. . .not literally) back then and have heard for ourself
But here we are. It's ok, we got flush toilets, hot showers, and a few other things

 

[Blindbowman]

from my search , Waltz had been on the search part of Dr. Thorne's gold .in 1869 and at his death it was stated he had not been to the mine in at least 10 years . making that 1881 that would say he knew where the mine was for about 12 years but he did not work the mine the full 12 years there were a few brakes in the time line ...

 

[Idahodutch]

from my search , Waltz had been on the search part of Dr. Thorne's gold .in 1869 and at his death it was stated he had not been to the mine in at least 10 years . making that 1881 that would say he knew where the mine was for about 12 years but he did not work the mine the full 12 years there were a few brakes in the time line ...

BB,
I have not read the death bed accounts other than little blips that happen to be part of a post of something. How many death bed accounts have Waltz talking . . . more specifically, what it was that he is to have actually said. Is there a source in the physical realm that you know about that you would be willing to direct me to.
Thanks BB,
Idaho Dutch

 

[Mc4500]

BB,
I have not read the death bed accounts other than little blips that happen to be part of a post of something. How many death bed accounts have Waltz talking . . . more specifically, what it was that he is to have actually said. Is there a source in the physical realm that you know about that you would be willing to direct me to.
Thanks BB,
Idaho Dutch

Helen Corbin's The Lost Dutchman's Bible

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Here are some of the German Clues just to throw a curve in everything. Lol.