DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

Your condescension will get you nowhere, you need to learn to apply your standards to your own claims. You have no photos or legally admissible evidence Doc Noss was a con man, you only have your opinion and hearsay to that effect. Yet you had no problem concluding he was a con man, and lectured me earlier about that as if you were a Principal at a high school and I was a freshman. Then you post the definition of forum as if that meant something here? Counter productive in my opinion.
 

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UncleMatt said:
Your condescension will get you nowhere, you need to learn to apply your standards to your own claims. You have no photos or legally admissible evidence Doc Noss was a con man, you only have your opinion and hearsay to that effect. Yet you had no problem concluding he was a con man, and lectured me earlier about that as if you were a Principal at a high school and I was a freshman. Then you post the definition of forum as if that meant something here? Counter productive in my opinion.
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Selling fake gold bars, practicing medicine without a license, impersonating a law officer, marriage to Violet Boles, selling astrology readings, selling shares in a Spanish treasure that never surfaced - maybe more stuff in Gold House. It's a trend. I don't judge Doc's actions from a moral perspective because under the pressures he was facing, I may have done the same or worse. Who knows - you do what you have to do. The point is that, for whatever reasons, there were trust issues with Doc Noss. By extension, a pattern of deception on smaller issues likely indicates a willingness to also deceive on more important ones.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Unfortunately, we are required to accept Noss's word about the existence of large treasure vaults in Victorio Peak from 1937-1949. We can't prove Doc's gold bars came from the Caballos either, for that matter. Hopefully, Garry's research into Willie Douthit on the other thread may shed some light there.
 

JudyH said:
I agree, UncleMatt, it is counter productive. It would be nice if we could put away the egos and stifle the sanctimony and condescension displayed when someone else's hearsay trumps our own. ;)
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Sorry if the arguments I've raised are so upsetting to you guys. You might question why that is. At least my "condescension" is backed up by honest doubt, rational questioning, plausible answers and a willingness to change my position. By the way, what do you bring to the discussion, or would that be "privileged information" too?
 

SDCFIA,

I was hesitant to give the name, but people involved said no problem. Ova Noss' oldest son Harold Beckwith. As soon as he got involved with the story, they disappeared.

Mike
 

I'm not upset at all, I have no ego or agenda in this at all, just pointing out that different rules seem to apply depending on whose theory is being questioned. As a neutral observer, after reading the books and learning from people on T-net and other treasure sites, I think there is reasonable evidence to conclude there was gold at VP that was removed by the military. And I don't attempt to attach VP to any other treasure theories out there, like Masons, or the KGC, or anyone, but the Spanish seem the most likely to have done so. I don't know how it got there or specifically who put it there, but I do think it was removed by the military. I also see reason for Doc to take the steps he did when he felt at risk of being defrauded by people. But I never met the man, and only have hearsay to base my opinions of his character on. But he was never legally charged with fraud over gold bars, nor convicted, nor incarcerated for that crime. Yes, he was a binge drinker who got into fights and had a bad habit of threatening people, and DID spend time in jail for doing so.
 

gollum said:
SDCFIA,

I was hesitant to give the name, but people involved said no problem. Ova Noss' oldest son Harold Beckwith. As soon as he got involved with the story, they disappeared.

Mike
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living or deceased?
 

UncleMatt said:
I'm not upset at all, I have no ego or agenda in this at all, just pointing out that different rules seem to apply depending on whose theory is being questioned. As a neutral observer, after reading the books and learning from people on T-net and other treasure sites, I think there is reasonable evidence to conclude there was gold at VP that was removed by the military. And I don't attempt to attach VP to any other treasure theories out there, like Masons, or the KGC, or anyone, but the Spanish seem the most likely to have done so. I don't know how it got there or specifically who put it there, but I do think it was removed by the military. I also see reason for Doc to take the steps he did when he felt at risk of being defrauded by people. But I never met the man, and only have hearsay to base my opinions of his character on. But he was never legally charged with fraud over gold bars, nor convicted, nor incarcerated for that crime. Yes, he was a binge drinker who got into fights and had a bad habit of threatening people, and DID spend time in jail for doing so.
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We're pretty much on the same page, Matt - I also think it's likely the government removed gold from the peak. If so, I suspect the gold was put in there after Noss's death, but I also realize that we'll never find out the truth of that matter.
 

Here is something I thought interesting, a quote about the number of holes on VP by the EcoPlan company in Albuquerque:

"The seven holes they plan to look at are: Porter-McDonald Tunnel, Soldiers Hole, Gaddis Tunnel, Upper Noss Shaft, Ova Noss Intercept, the West Lower Entry and Trench 1 Entry. These are all on the west and north sides of the peak. They do not mention using the Mule Hole or the Berlett-Fiege Hole."

If anyone can point out the locations of all these, that would be just swell! Don't forget GPS coords! :laughing7:

Take a look at part 5, it has other interesting details as well.

Does anyone have a copy of this report done by EcoPlan? An Environmental Assessment of The Ova Noss Family Partnership Expedition into Victorio Peak
 

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gollum said:
SDCFIA,

I was hesitant to give the name, but people involved said no problem. Ova Noss' oldest son Harold Beckwith. As soon as he got involved with the story, they disappeared.

Mike
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Thanks, Mike. I guess on one hand, since Beckwith and Doc apparently hated each other, maybe he figured that withholding the photos would somehow spite Doc's memory. On the other hand, providing the photographic evidence would also justify his mother's enormous efforts for all those years, despite the way Doc treated her. It also seems odd that Beckworth would end up with the only photos of the treasure. I guess since the photos are unavailable, it's a moot point.
 

SDC: Juxy .?? besides her personality, brings a professional flavor, snce she is a Titled Geologist, to the forum. Sides she is the Geologist up at Tayopa, where The Gold bars in question, came from. Hence one reason for her being here.

Psst, sides she is cute and extremely smart. B & B in one small packge. and PBSR#1

As the Old flag said " Don't tread on me " hint.
 

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Reading the comments on Willie D. and Doc, And all the research on these two, I can tell after all the years that have passed, that the bread crumbs are still fresh.
It makes me wonder if the Royal Catholic Monarchs are rolling over in their graves with laughter.:laughing7: np:cat:
 

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JudyH said:
You might question why You think we should be upset by your "arguments". :dontknow:

Most of the other posters have no trouble expressing their honest doubts, rational questioning, plausible answers and willingness to change their position without an attitude of patronizing superiority and disdain.

Are you implying that I don't have the right to comment?
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- I know why: it's the human condition. People become upset and defensive by ideas that don't jibe with long held strong beliefs.
- Does that include you?
- Not at all. I welcome your opinions on the subject. Please proceed - the more input, the better we all are.
 

Not Peralta said:
Reading the comments on Willie D. and Doc, And all the research on these two, I can tell after all the years that have passed, that the bread crumbs are still fresh.
It makes me wonder if the Royal Catholic Monarchs are rolling over in their graves with laughter.:laughing7: np:cat:
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np, please elaborate. You seem to have opinions on this. Why not share them?
 

gollum said:
Not certain, but since he was Ova's Son from a marriage previous to Doc, then my guess is deceased.


Mike
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Oh well ...

beckwith.jpg
 

JudyH said:
You know? Strange, I don't recall even mentioning what my 'beliefs' are. :icon_scratch:

You might be surprised to know that I agree with a lot of your points. What I don't agree with is your condescending remarks designed to provoke argument. It has been my experience that condescension operates from deficit. It is counter productive, as UncleMatt observed and I agreed in my reply. It is not conducive to an honest exchange of information and ideas, just the opposite...it actually stifles more input.

So if you truly welcome my opinion, input, there you have it. I suggest the bulldog grow a pair and stop using a superior attitude to make up for the lack.
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No offense intended, but your personal opinion about me simply isn't on my radar. If you don't like my posts because of me, then just ignore them.
 

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