DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[Not Peralta]

None of it makes any difference if you don't recover something. np

 

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[sdcfia]

<cut>
DO I take a safe $702,000, or take a HUGE RISK of losing everything (including maybe my freedom and/or life), and take about $4,800,000 in cash?

Heckuva dilemma? HUH?

Mike

Yes, quite a statement about the condition of the American Dream, and food for thought for the naive. The only gray area I see in the numbers is your 700k for Door No. 1 - I'd say there's a fair chance it might work out much closer to zero, no matter how expensive a suit your liar wears (BLM land, you know). This "fear of the man", by the way, was the noose around Noss's neck in the 30s.

 

[UncleMatt]

Continuing my map efforts, I am throwing together a GE map of the Caballo Mountains, the Organ Mountains, and the VP area. Will post when its complete. If you have landmarks you want included, please PM me with GPS coords and a description of the site. And as always, if you feel I have made any errors, just let me know after its posted

 

[gollum]

SDCFIA,

The two biggest determiners are your attorney and how much work will be involved in the recovery. Say, the Virgen de Guadalupe that had an entire cliff face blasted down over it. Now youre talking about heavy equipment, extensive reclamation, and workers. Your safe cut gets you maybe $100k.

Mike

 

[UncleMatt]

I've been thinking again, which I know you have all warned me about as dangerous, but something occurred to me about Willie and his "date with the mountain at noon". Often this is attributed to a "shadow sign" which he would only be able to read at high noon. I want to offer an alternative explanation for you all to consider, and that is simply that maybe he didn't have enough light to see to the bottom of a large crack (or even maybe a hole) he had found when the sun wasn't directly overhead. I read mention of something like this kind of topology in Lure of the Cabbalos, and it seems more likely than a shadow sign being involved. He probably found a crack too narrow to enter, but could see something at the bottom, and had to wait to high noon for enough light to be sure it was worth digging for.

 

[Not Peralta]

Over looked and Ignored?, The spirit of determination by others, put yourself in their shoes, go to other times, don't think in modern terms, theres a reason why some cache's were left behind,
on a long and dangerous route there are many obstacles , like bread crumbs, if you are so busy trying to follow another group that actually has the original treasure, and your being mislead by
a false trail with bread crumbs, then you will never catch up to the original group that has the bulk of the treasure, this is exactly what happened to the Jesuits.
Remember there were only so many games in town, who do you think was the only ones with that kind of wealth. ITS ALL IN THE SPIRIT, and it comes in many forms in trying to solve a mystery. np

 

[johnmark29020]

I have a unrelated question for you guys. My wife and I were looking at a site in the woods here Oklahoma.
Between two very old rocks. We saw somthing shiny. I turned on the light on her cell. While using tge light. The phone died. The batt was completely ruined. Had to buy a new one. What could causr such a thing.

 

[sdcfia]

SDCFIA,

The two biggest determiners are your attorney and how much work will be involved in the recovery. Say, the Virgen de Guadalupe that had an entire cliff face blasted down over it. Now youre talking about heavy equipment, extensive reclamation, and workers. Your safe cut gets you maybe $100k.

Mike

This is an interesting video. Note what happened to Odyssey Marine Exploration beginning about 11:20.

Money Top Secrets of Gold - Full Film

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Just remember your cardinal points correctly N, S, E, & W

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

What do you think that sun on the NW side of the Caballo is for ??

 

[gollum]

What do you think that sun on the NW side of the Caballo is for ??

Why do you say Sun?

The Ankh is a sign for Venus. Venus is visible to the naked eye, and is brighter than every star but our Sun. So, an ankh inside a large circle would more likely represent Venus with the number of rays meaning something associated with the observance of Venus. Venus can be seen in the midday sky when it is at its closest to Earth. Maybe that's an alignment that Willie was waiting for when he said he had "a date with the mountain at noon." A sun/Venus alignment in the sky that would line up with something on the ground? After all, what would an astrolabe or sextant be used for other than to track star/sun movement in the sky?

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Why do you say Sun?

The Ankh is a sign for Venus. Venus is visible to the naked eye, and is brighter than every star but our Sun. So, an ankh inside a large circle would more likely represent Venus with the number of rays meaning something associated with the observance of Venus. Venus can be seen in the midday sky when it is at its closest to Earth. Maybe that's an alignment that Willie was waiting for when he said he had "a date with the mountain at noon." A sun/Venus alignment in the sky that would line up with something on the ground? After all, what would an astrolabe or sextant be used for other than to track star/sun movement in the sky?

Mike

That's where the mention of the sextant confuses this story. Your Venus transit theory is certainly plausible. In fact, for an alleged gigantic gold cache such as is rumored in the Caballos, you might expect that its owners would be a rather capable bunch whose map would require proprietary knowledge to be able to use it. Beats a scrawled map with a couple landmarks and an "X". I'm sure that if we started at the hidey-hole, we could reverse engineer of all kinds of scenarios that would require landmarks, clues on the ground, a defined starting point (maybe that second ankh at Rincon) and maybe celestial angle measurements that might lead a person back to the promised land. Maybe if a smart cookie knew what the map symbols and numbers meant, he could even solve it on his own.

But a so-called mook like Willie? How does a "drifter" (or a "runaway kid" like Jack Reynolds) happen to get lucky, find a complex treasure map and a sextant, figure out the navigation and find these things? This is where the Willie/Buster/Doc story breaks down for me. There's more to it, and it again draws attention to the "guerrilla gang".

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentle men: The sun was also used by the Jesuits to indicate a treasure sign. See my posts on TaYOPA. one was ( IS ) about 150 ft across but It allowed me to back check on Tayopa. Also I found the one at Tubares for the Church treasure.

We already have the rising and setting sun drawn.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I tend to qoustion the Venus shot, since the Jesuit only had a quarter staff at the time. Not accurate enough for a hidden cove or ---

 

[gollum]

Jose,

I don't care what type of infection the Jesuits had (1/4. 1/2, 3/4 staph) ;-)


A quick note about the map.

I don't know where the "Willie" came into this (I am just as guilty), but according to the author of the books, Willie never had anything to do with this map:

"Winter 1937 - Doc told family members he had found the location of the Victorio Peak treasure from an old map* given to him by an Indian, someone that Doc had treated for a foot ailment at his office in Hot Springs. The Indian had no money and Doc accepted the map as payment."

From now on, if you believe Willie had anything to do with this map note that it is your opinion they are related. Nothing documented relates the two.

Better version:



Thanks =- Mike

 

[sdcfia]

<cut>A quick note about the map.

I don't know where the "Willie" came into this (I am just as guilty), but according to the author of the books, Willie never had anything to do with this map.

From now on, if you believe Willie had anything to do with this map note that it is your opinion they are related. Nothing documented relates the two.

Better version:

View attachment 1081622

Thanks =- Mike

Thanks very much for the better map. Some familiar stuff now appears.

The maps - who got them and how. Potential celestial navigation links and ancient symbology. Where the maps ended up. "Doc and the Indians" - this in itself is a can of worms that, along with "Doc the non-Mason in the Masonic cemetery" and Oklahoma Starrs are links to other treasure weirdness theories. With all due respect, the Noss/Douthit/Ward/(Reynolds) associations are still open questions for me.

Any more info on the "guerrilla gang"? 🂡

 

[UncleMatt]

That map is MUCH better! I can see 2 hands at the bloody hands site now...

I also posted the map earlier with the same sourcing info Mike just provided.

 

[gollum]

Thanks very much for the better map. Some familiar stuff now appears.

The maps - who got them and how. Potential celestial navigation links and ancient symbology. Where the maps ended up. "Doc and the Indians" - this in itself is a can of worms that, along with "Doc the non-Mason in the Masonic cemetery" and Oklahoma Starrs are links to other treasure weirdness theories. With all due respect, the Noss/Douthit/Ward/(Reynolds) associations are still open questions for me.

Any more info on the "guerrilla gang"? 

I made the sextant/astrolabe comment based on faulty thinking that this map was the one Willie had, and shared with Doc. Officially, that is not the case, but it is still a possibility.

There are a bunch of non Mason Folks buried in Masonic Cemeteries all over the US. Doesn't mean a thing without something solid to prove otherwise.

I hit kind of a dead end with the guerrilla gang thing. We need someone local to hit up the historical society or something like it.

Mike

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

How about some old railroad journeral s ?

 

[UncleMatt]

I too have found zero evidence of the existence of the "guerrilla gang"angle after searching diligently, but if someone finds some evidence proving it did exist, I'm sure we would all love to see it here. As it stands now though, it appears to be a non-starter.