DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[Not Peralta]

The Franciscan and Dominican friars in this area would not have been so confused and mislead if they had been Jesuits. np

 

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[sdcfia]

UncleMatt, one more time, where did this treasure come from,If in fact there was a treasure. who had this much stuff to hide, and why did they hide it, through history ,theres only really been a few
treasures to be hidden that have been recorded to be large cache's, I have almost laid out the whole story for anyone to follow, try following the research on this info , but for this area ,the bulk of the treasure was not deposited at this location, only bread crumbs to make a certain group think that it was. and to take up their time .( LA NOCHE TRISTE). np

"La noche triste." OK, now I get it. You suspect that the Caballos is a snipe hunt target for Montezuma's Treasure - allegedly removed from Tenochtitlan and actually hidden somewhere in North America. A Caballo diversion away from the true cache location. Well, that's certainly plausible. Supposedly there were Mexican-appearing petroglyphs found in the Caballos that have since been destroyed, but I haven't seen photos or sketches of them. I don't know about any other evidence besides these alleged carvings, but some people around the T or C area have mentioned "Aztecs" in their Caballo gold stories. Your theory does account for where the gold came from and when it was placed. You may be right.

The main problem I have with the Montezuma's Treasure stories is that none of the Native American tribal traditions mention such a huge caravan of Aztecs and their slaves, animals and support teams necessary to move such a massive amount of gold. The folks up there in Utah claim that the Utes were in on the secret and that the treasure was hidden there. Be that as it may, no matter where the cache site would be, the expedition carrying it from Mexico still would have traveled through Arizona and/or New Mexico ca 1520. There aren't any memories of such an event that I've run across. Even so, there were clear memories by several tribes of the large 1538 Coronado/de Niza expedition and the huge 1540 Coronado expedition traveling through the same territory. The natives even remember the Cabeza de Vaca party stumbling through TX, NM and possibly AZ in the 1530s, and that was only four guys.

I definitely agree that there is an Aztec connection in New Mexico - maybe Arizona and/or Utah too. To me, the "seven cities", "seven caves", etc rumors may refer to an original source of Aztec gold, in their traditional homeland (southwest North America), but not a place they returned it to from Mexico.

 

[sdcfia]

The Franciscan and Dominican friars in this area would not have been so confused and mislead if they had been Jesuits. np

The French Jesuits badly wanted into New Mexico - even LaSalle from Canada in the early days. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Kino was in AZ looking for some of the "seven caves" - rumors even place him sneaking around southern New Mexico too. I also wouldn't be surprised if Kino didn't locate some of the sites, maybe in AZ, NM or both. In fact, all those Jesuit hidden treasure stories in AZ may be more "bread crumb trails" like you described - designed to lead the curious in the wrong directions. If they knew then, they still know now.

Don't sell the Franciscan Marcos de Niza short. He is an awfully mysterious person with a bad reputation amongst the Conquistadores. Ask Coronado about snipe hunts. Marcos may have found something too, after all, there were "seven" to find.

 

[Not Peralta]

sdcfia, New Mexico, and ARIZONA and Cal, all were used by the Aztecs before they ever went to mexico, there are lots of Aztec sites located in new mexico, and if you know were to look around the
caballo's, you will find lots of sites. yes I firmly believe the area around the caballo's was a bread crumb trail. at the time of moving their treasures ,I believe they were split into two groups when leaving mexico, most of their travels were by Aztec flat boats, the one group that wanted the Spanish to follow them ,went up the river to what is now known as the caballo's and made bread crumb deposits to
keep the Spanish busy, while the main party with the bulk of the treasure headed up the coast and entered the Colorado river and traveled it to the final resting place for the main treasure, traveling by way of the rivers makes everything easier. np

 

[gollum]

For personal reasons that I will give in a bit, I will say that I am fairly certain Moctezuma's Wealth is not in New Mexico. Not only for the reasons that SDCFIA outlined, but others.

Research the story of Gordon Smith's Ice Cave Mummies. I have a personal connection to this story. I have been to the mountain. I have been to the quarry. I have been to one of the cache sites. Because of what Gordon found on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, I am fairly certain that Moctezuma's Wealth followed the Colorado River up into the Grand Canyon. They left the Colorado River heading North somewhere between the Hualapai Reservation and Toroweep Overlook. Sometime shortly after heading North from the Colorado, they lost either one very important member or several important members of their party. The twenty-six canvas wrapped mummies in Gordon's Ice Cave were left there for a reason, along with the associated cache. What was found would not remotely qualify as the bulk of Moctezuma's Wealth, but when an important person dies, older societies typically buried them with a lot of things that they could use in the afterlife (some wealth, servants, warriors, etc). I believe that this (while not qualifying as the final resting place of the Aztec Wealth, does prove a waypoint). I believe the final spot is probably somewhere in the Uinta Mountains on the Reservation.

But that's another thread.

Now, back to the Caballos and San Andres.

Mike

 

[Not Peralta]

Mike, I did not say his wealth was in new mexico, only the bread crumb trail, and yes, they did use the Colorado river, but, I know they did not travel all the way to the grand canyon with the bulk of the wealth, after depositing their wealth at a certain area ,they did make that trip to continue their deception, with their bread crumb trails in case the Spanish were able to follow them.np

 

[gollum]

Mike, I did not say his wealth was in new mexico, only the bread crumb trail, and yes, they did use the Colorado river, but, I know they did not travel all the way to the grand canyon with the bulk of the wealth, after depositing their wealth at a certain area ,they did make that trip to continue their deception, with their bread crumb trails in case the Spanish were able to follow them.np

See, you speak in absolute terms. That is where I have a problem. If you are certain of a thing, please explain why you are so certain. Until you (or someone else that believes as you do) drags truckloads of gold and jewels out ooooooooof, let me guess....... The Superstitions? Then please use terms like "I believe" or "I think" or "my best guess is". I am not claiming that you are one of these, but as long as I have been a member here, I have seen self important blowhards come and go. Every one knows for a fact where the Lost Dutchman Mine is. Where Moctezuma's Gold is. Where the Beale Treasure is. Where the gold from The Confederate Treasury is. etc etc etc. Please don't place yourself in that category. Don't be a BlindBowman, Bill Riley, ScottGarrison, or JohnVKlemm (unless you are one of them, then by all means continue HAHAHA).

Mike

 

[Not Peralta]

Mike, I said a long time ago a lot of these treasure stories are connected to one treasure, not many treasures, and no its not the superstitions, and yes, I am absolutely positive the bulk of the treasure never made it to the grand canyon. and the powers to be know that I know what I am talking about, they have been invading my ground sites on this subject for the last 2 years, np

 

[johnmark29020]

"La noche triste." OK, now I get it. You suspect that the Caballos is a snipe hunt target for Montezuma's Treasure - allegedly removed from Tenochtitlan and actually hidden somewhere in North America. A Caballo diversion away from the true cache location. Well, that's certainly plausible. Supposedly there were Mexican-appearing petroglyphs found in the Caballos that have since been destroyed, but I haven't seen photos or sketches of them. I don't know about any other evidence besides these alleged carvings, but some people around the T or C area have mentioned "Aztecs" in their Caballo gold stories. Your theory does account for where the gold came from and when it was placed. You may be right.

The main problem I have with the Montezuma's Treasure stories is that none of the Native American tribal traditions mention such a huge caravan of Aztecs and their slaves, animals and support teams necessary to move such a massive amount of gold. The folks up there in Utah claim that the Utes were in on the secret and that the treasure was hidden there. Be that as it may, no matter where the cache site would be, the expedition carrying it from Mexico still would have traveled through Arizona and/or New Mexico ca 1520. There aren't any memories of such an event that I've run across. Even so, there were clear memories by several tribes of the large 1538 Coronado/de Niza expedition and the huge 1540 Coronado expedition traveling through the same territory. The natives even remember the Cabeza de Vaca party stumbling through TX, NM and possibly AZ in the 1530s, and that was only four guys.

I definitely agree that there is an Aztec connection in New Mexico - maybe Arizona and/or Utah too. To me, the "seven cities", "seven caves", etc rumors may refer to an original source of Aztec gold, in their traditional homeland (southwest North America), but not a place they returned it to from Mexico.

There is a article about a indian chef who told a story about many slaves being in tombed in the superstition mtn. The chef is passed now,but if memory serves me right. He said two hundred slaves were killed so their spirit could guard the massive treasure. He also said that it was left there under his tribes protection.

 

[sdcfia]

For personal reasons that I will give in a bit, I will say that I am fairly certain Moctezuma's Wealth is not in New Mexico. Not only for the reasons that SDCFIA outlined, but others.

Research the story of Gordon Smith's Ice Cave Mummies. I have a personal connection to this story. I have been to the mountain. I have been to the quarry. I have been to one of the cache sites. Because of what Gordon found on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, I am fairly certain that Moctezuma's Wealth followed the Colorado River up into the Grand Canyon. They left the Colorado River heading North somewhere between the Hualapai Reservation and Toroweep Overlook. Sometime shortly after heading North from the Colorado, they lost either one very important member or several important members of their party. The twenty-six canvas wrapped mummies in Gordon's Ice Cave were left there for a reason, along with the associated cache. What was found would not remotely qualify as the bulk of Moctezuma's Wealth, but when an important person dies, older societies typically buried them with a lot of things that they could use in the afterlife (some wealth, servants, warriors, etc). I believe that this (while not qualifying as the final resting place of the Aztec Wealth, does prove a waypoint). I believe the final spot is probably somewhere in the Uinta Mountains on the Reservation.

But that's another thread.

Now, back to the Caballos and San Andres.

Mike

By land or by river, a large caravan doesn't go unnoticed. A small group, maybe. I've gotten similar Uinta information from a UT friend. I still suspect the GC find and the UT stuff is Pre Columbian. I believe the mormons were tight with the Utes and know lots, even though they've been known to fake stuff too. I had a bad experience revealing a site to another group of well-known UT folks, which soured me on further dealings with these cultists. Even though my friend is a jack, that doesn't change the fact that I'm an infidel in his eyes and will never be shown the best stuff.

Anyway, yes - back to the subject at hand. Garry's documentation on the other thread has already confirmed a red flag in the Willie saga for me - his age.

 

[gollum]

By land or by river, a large caravan doesn't go unnoticed. A small group, maybe. I've gotten similar Uinta information from a UT friend. I still suspect the GC find and the UT stuff is Pre Columbian. I believe the mormons were tight with the Utes and know lots, even though they've been known to fake stuff too. I had a bad experience revealing a site to another group of well-known UT folks, which soured me on further dealings with these cultists. Even though my friend is a jack, that doesn't change the fact that I'm an infidel in his eyes and will never be shown the best stuff.

Anyway, yes - back to the subject at hand. Garry's documentation on the other thread has already confirmed a red flag in the Willie saga for me - his age.

Funny you mention the Mormons. Gordon said that when he was being held in jail (see story), the Police didn't mess with him much, but he had multiple visits from the LDS, and they questioned him about his find seriously.

Mike

 

[johnmark29020]

By land or by river, a large caravan doesn't go unnoticed. A small group, maybe. I've gotten similar Uinta information from a UT friend. I still suspect the GC find and the UT stuff is Pre Columbian. I believe the mormons were tight with the Utes and know lots, even though they've been known to fake stuff too. I had a bad experience revealing a site to another group of well-known UT folks, which soured me on further dealings with these cultists. Even though my friend is a jack, that doesn't change the fact that I'm an infidel in his eyes and will never be shown the best stuff.

Anyway, yes - back to the subject at hand. Garry's documentation on the other thread has already confirmed a red flag in the Willie saga for me - his age.

What other thread. Can you link it.
I would like to read it.

 

[gollum]

WILLIE DOUTHIT

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please quote exactly where politics was mentioned that is violating the rules. I don't see ANY mention of any political parties at all, so no idea what you are referring to. We are merely discussing the motivations of the people who stole gold from VP....

Politics does not have to mention any political party.....

That's a good point. The LBJ ranch rumors notwithstanding, it makes more sense to me that stolen assets be used to finance the government's black ops shenanigans around the world. These things are off the books and seemingly ubiquitous, but regardless, the bills must be paid.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I have found exactly how to handle noss' key to the Tayopa Gold & Silver at Victorio Pea,k / Caballos Guaranteed to work even with today's peeps holding the secret -- as a matter of fact I think that the thought alone would make me give them the key to Tayopa. Sorry Judy. .

I wonder ifthey use the properly broiled Meat afterwards? Like the Long Mary kai kai that I saw in the Solomons?? She was already disjointed and cooked separarelly . Join me Judy, ? Mastiff, Uni? Ladies firt unc matt.

 

[gollum]

Politics does not have to mention any political party.....

TH,

Nobody here is bagging on anything political. A discussion about the Victorio Peak Treasure HAS to include a discussion about the people responsible for removing it from the Peak. CIA, Military (under General Shinkle), and LBJ.

Are you trying to say that because there is a government connection to the removal of the treasure from VP, that we can't discuss it due to forum rules? THAT IS RIDICULOUS!

Mike

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Mike when you start talking "government black ops shenanigans" that is political statement which is what my comment was directed at...

 

[markmar]

NP

You have turned the Caballos and other treasures in bread crumbs to protect the Montezuma treasure .
Where fits the lil map in Montezuma story ?
The legend of the " seven cities of gold " is about six centuries older than La Noche Triste event .
I believe the first ( before lil map ) route was from fox heart via Gila river to Rio Grande , Caballos and Europe .
I believe the Jesuits using some pre Columbian informations had found the ancient almacens and continued to use them in the same way .

PS

I don't say how the Aztecs didn't knew about these almacens and they didn't use this gold for their needs . I believe how Montezuma treasure is close to one of these almacens .

 

[Not Peralta]

markmar, the lil map, is the lil map, it is what it is, Im sure the Spanish had a special purpose for it, they made it for a reason , what that is I don't know, maybe some day someone will figure it out.
I have found it to fit many things, but not a specific purpose, as far as I know it has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about the other treasure, but you never know. most every thing as far as big treasures goes is connected in one way or the other. and yes , the other treasures I was talking about have everything to do with the caballo's. np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ths lil map