DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hmmm That is thr trail shown curving around the Caballo, not the river

 

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[UncleMatt]

Take a look at the island at 33.074665°, -107.281304°. Also, as I understand it, rainfall was much higher in NM even a hundred years ago. I have spoken with very elderly people from NM who tell me they remember when most of the state was covered in grasses. I remember much higher rainfall and greener deserts even back in the 1990's. Due to this fact of ever reducing water flow in the Rio Grande, I doubt the hydrological forces existed to divert river flows from current positions in modern times, it usually takes flood events to accomplish those diversions. Of course intervention by man is a whole new story.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

 

[gollum]

Jose,

You have it backasswards.

SDCFIA,

Here is my best on the island. I found this a while back when I first saw that map. Notice how on the map there is a pass just SouthEast of the island:



The island is oriented exactly like on the map, and Palomas Pass and Apache Pass are in the exact right spots as well. This map shows The Rio Grand, Caballos, San Andres, and maybe Northern tip of Organs.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Hmmm That is thr trail shown curving around the Caballo, not the river

View attachment 1080553

Hmm ... interesting thought. That trail would follow the Jornada del Muerto from the river, north up east of th Caballos, then turn west near Engle back through the pass to the river again. That would make Point of Rocks the "island".

 

[sdcfia]

Hmm - what leads you to think that this treasure was not found and removed? Thank you in advance;
Oroblanco

I guess we can assume Victorio Peak is empty, unless the black ops folks still have more WWII Nazi gold hidden in its known caverns. These would be the caverns that Noss spent twelve years fiddling with, unable to penetrate them because he was well aware they were empty. A primary contention in this thread is that Noss faked the entire VP discovery to obfuscate his Caballo discovery, and that when Doc was killed and Ova was finally kicked out, the Army made use of the convenient caverns, which they uncovered in the late 50s. That said,if true, the Caballo sites are still not fully defined.

 

[UncleMatt]

But doesn't the El Camino Real extend all the way up to Socorro in the Jornado del Muerto? I was unaware the main trail took a westerly turn near what is today the Elephant Butte Reservoir.

 

[sdcfia]

But doesn't the El Camino Real extend all the way up to Socorro in the Jornado del Muerto? I was unaware the main trail took a westerly turn near what is today the Elephant Butte Reservoir.

Yes, but if we follow Don Jose's idea, they would have needed to get west of the ridge earlier to access the site shown by the upper left "?" The present highway is not too bad a trip - it must have been built on the old trail. They may have even been able to get water at that big wet-water pond where they'd make the turn. Of course, this idea requires that a number of caches are on the east slopes of the Caballos, which is consistent with some of the Caballo legends. I'm not signing on to this plan, just thinking out loud. All things are possible until we know for sure.

 

[sdcfia]

<cut>

SDCFIA,

Here is my best on the island. I found this a while back when I first saw that map. Notice how on the map there is a pass just SouthEast of the island:

View attachment 1080573

The island is oriented exactly like on the map, and Palomas Pass and Apache Pass are in the exact right spots as well. This map shows The Rio Grand, Caballos, San Andres, and maybe Northern tip of Organs.

Mike

That is a nice fit all right. Strong argument.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hmm, oh well

 

[UncleMatt]

You know, I have seen people argue that talking about VP is a waste of time since the gold is gone and the government owns the land for WSMR, but if you look at the Caballos, all the areas of interest have active mining claims on them! So even if you came up with information pointing to a cave or cache spot, what makes you think its yours to find and take? Has anyone else thought of this simple fact?

 

[UncleMatt]

I enjoy the research involved myself, but it seems you would have to approach a claim holder and strike up a deal with them before you could actually start digging for anything...

 

[sdcfia]

You know, I have seen people argue that talking about VP is a waste of time since the gold is gone and the government owns the land for WSMR, but if you look at the Caballos, all the areas of interest have active mining claims on them! So even if you came up with information pointing to a cave or cache spot, what makes you think its yours to find and take? Has anyone else thought of this simple fact?

Excellent point, Unc. I've been away from the mining scene in southern New Mexico for many years, but the Caballos used to have the reputation of having the highest concentration of deranged treasure hunters of any location in the country. Back in the 70s and 80s, I heard a number of first-hand reports of people being stalked, hassled and intimidated in there - and worse. I know for a fact that some of the claim holders then were crazy as a bedbug, and others were scammers and swindlers. Just like the days of Doc and Willie - ha ha.

Maybe things are more mellow nowadays. I have an acquaintance who is hot on the trail of one of the old rumors with high-tech, but he made a deal with a claim holder for access. If someone turns up new information on ground covered by valid mining claims, I would suggest that they contact the claim holder and try to strike a deal, as a number of claim holders are just sitting on their claims waiting for such a thing.

 

[UncleMatt]

I agree

 

[UncleMatt]

Since the map supposedly came from the estate of Doc Noss, perhaps there is a copy floating around that could be scanned in at a higher resolution than the current versions we have access to?

Mike, would you be able to ask your contacts on VP about that, and see if there is an original or a copy that shows more detail? For example, its hard to make out the details on the "Bloody Hands" area shown on the map. It would also be good to see if the maps I posted earlier can be verified by anyone as real or fake. Still looking for some samples of Doc's handwriting as well...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mke (gollyom ) on which side of the Caballos does the Rio Del Norte flow ?

 

[johnmark29020]

Heres a question. Would any of the map be in south eastern az. Around globe.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Frankly I doubt it. But many maps hve a startlingly overlay

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Treasure Legend of Caballo Mountains-New Mexico
December 25, 2000 at 16:46:01
In Reply to: Treasure Legend of Cabillo Mountains-New Mexico
posted by Roger on December 19, 2000 at 20:20:10

Interesting. Thanks Roger. It jives with an old type-written copy I have. Interesting how the same stuff gets changed.... here's the exact text of the copy I have. maybe the references will help you find the map? <grin>

Exactly as written, uncorrected. Begin quote:

Datestamped Jan 12, 1936

Redfield, Georgia B. 1/6/36-cl-700 words

ROSWELL CHIHUAHUA DISTRICT FOLK-TALES BURIED TREASURE

Interest in New Mexico traditions of buried treasure has been greatly revived in the past few months, especially so in the southeast part of the state since the death of a very old Mexican woman of the Chihuahua - Spanish American settlement - in the city of Roswell. It was generally known in that district, that the woman was in possession of a secret of fabulous riches buried by her ancestors during the Indian uprisings and stealings. There was excitement and hurrying of many neighbors to the bed-side of the old woman who finally died without divulging her secret to any of the eager ones waiting around her, only a few words came at the last with her frantic pointing toward the mountains, west - "Gold!" she said, with her last struggling breath "much gold, jewels, silver!" That was all but enough to renew frantic searching for the treasure.

Of all legends of the Spanish American people of this district the ones of buried treasure will always be the most thrilling. It is said some of these stories, have resulted In hunting and digging to such an extent that many rich fertile fields of the lazy ones, which have long lain waste have been well prepared for planting by constant spading and are now truly yielding treasure in golden grain, hay. and garden foods.

However there is no doubt about there being buried treasure. In various localities in the state of New Mexico. Some of these will never be found. Money - gold and silver - was often buried in the early days, during the establishment of cattle-camps and ranches in this state. There were no banks in those early days, no strongholds, not even locks on flimsy doors of adobe huts or dugout camps on the barren prairies. Life was always uncertain, with marauding Indians everywhere, and so there are legends handed down through the years of vast treasures buried, some by the "Pale-Face" and others by the "Red-Skin".

The Comanches and Apaches spent days and weeks trailing and watching herds of cattle brought over the waterless dry plains by the first cattle-trail blazers. When the herds were sold they were ready to pounce down and take the hard earned gold the stock-men had broken their nerves, their health and lost their lives in the end to gain. Scouts were sent ahead of herds, always, and they often rode back to report Indian raiders waiting on the trail. There was then a mad scramble to bury all valuables, even food and water, and the cowman rode on to meet death in combats, and those treasures still lie safely hidden, useless through long lean years of hardships, depressions, and even famine among the Indiana who still hunt treasure buried by their people after looting in New Mexico.

"There in buried treasure in Caballo Mountains (Horse Mountains) thirty-five miles northwest of Las Cruces". said Gorgonio Wilson, "I know this most certainly, for have I not the map on paper, and the directions all written down, where to go to find the place? There are more gold bars, and heaped up silver, and jewels than can be carted out by truck loads," he said.

"The treasure was buried by a spring under the big rooks of Caballo Canyon. It was brought there at different times, by the looting Indiana, on loaded mules and horses on many, many trips, after their murdering raids."

Gorgonio's mother was a Mexican woman from Mexico, his father an American from West Point, Missourl, the two met and married In Albuquerque immediately after the Civil War. Gorgonio their son, is truthful. He has inherited this good trait of character from both parents. He has lived a good and useful life and now in his late years he is firm in the belief of reward for the last days of his life. Reward with those riches of buried treasure, which will give him and one he loves, comforts to use in sickness and during helpless old age.

"I am going to find that treasure if, the Lord pleases," said Gorgonio,, "and He will let me, for I now have only three dollars to live on every month, for my old age pension, and I need it for my brother's girl, Enis Garcia. Since her little muchacho came, she is not right, she wanders in her mind. She stands at her window and gazes out all the time, but she never harms anybody. She is good and kind. She now has three sets of twins, and, God help her I need the buried treasure bad for her."

"The map came to me honest. There will always be lying and stealing and murdering to get secrets of treasures buried In different places, in New Mexico and all over the world. It was stealing that got this secret to me, but it is clean now. I got it honest from a Spanish lady. A Mexican man from New Mexico stayed at her house in old Mexico. He told to her the secret of the buried treasure and showed her the map and the writing which told all about where to find this treasure in New Mexico. He displeased her one day, she was bitter with him, and she stole his map and his writing and his instrument made to find the treasure, and she fled with it one night and made her way to New Mexico. She was helpless and didn't know what to do to find her treasure after she was here. I found her in Carrizozo. She seemed to be lost and I was a good friend to her. She said to me - "the secret brings to me only bad luck' (that was because she stole It) so she gave It to me. A thief crept to my house and stole part of my instrument, but he didn't find the amp, so it can do him no good. When I have the money and can have my instrument fixed up and can go to Caballo Mountain then everything will be all right and the poor Enis, who wanders In her mind will have new dresses and good fires to warm herself by, and good food to make her strong.

"When we find that treasure," said Gorgonio "we will do much good for everybody whenever we can."

Sources of Information

 

[johnmark29020]

"When we find that treasure," said Gorgonio "we will do much good for everybody whenever we can."

Sources of Information[/QUOTE]

Now theres the only good reason to find lost treasures. Not to make war. Not to make ourselves rich.
Simply to do good for others. Especially friends and family.
I wonder if he found it.