DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[whiskeyrat]

for anyone reading the "gold house trilogy".
in book 1 it discusses Willies cabin and a bent tin "pointer" nailed above the east window that was said to point to the cave entrance.

The first pic above is a close up of the top of the east window. no tin pointer is there now.
however in the book it shows a pic of the pointer in place saying it points east toward the cave, and that willie could look out this window toward the east and see the entrance to his cave.

Based on the orientation of the cabin, the tin pointer when it was above the window pointed pretty much due North, not east.

Looking east of of the window is the second photo. About all you see is the south side of granite peak.

just FYI
wr

 

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[whiskeyrat]

someone put a lot of work into this one

 

[whiskeyrat]

Amigo's Here's a very good question for you all,Do you actually think Doc Noss stumbled upon VP accidentally while deer hunting?. If so then why did he spend so much time being shown different caves within the area, and why did he finally settle upon VP for his purposes ,Doc knew VP had nothing in it, It had been used as a shelter for many years, by both ranchers and travelers,NP
PS don't ask me I already know the reason, what doe's your research tell you, thanks in advance,NP

Its very possible that VP had many different caves, vaults, tunnels, etc.
Some may have been know by many people and used for many reasons over the years and everyone knew about them, explored them, nothing in them and everyone knew they were empty.
Which would make one think Docs story of finding treasure is false. (does not matter whether he found it hunting or had a map)

But maybe there were other caves/vaults that had not been found.
Doc found one or two or three of these or more using the maps he had found.
Whether he found them while hunting or found them using a map and used hunting as a ruse to hide his previous exposure the the caves matters little.

For people to think the caves empty (the ones that everyone knew about) while he exploited the vaults (the ones only he knew about) is perfect for him.

just some thoughts
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

spanish? indian? fake?
any ideas?
thanks
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

spanish? indian? fake?
opinions? thanks
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

spanish? indian? fake?

maybe these should go in the thread about signs and symbols in caballos?
if so, sorry
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

last one I promise.
any opinions?
wr

 

[nmth]

View attachment 1393038View attachment 1393039

spanish? indian? fake?
any ideas?
thanks
wr

Indian. Some have called it a sailing ship. Not me.
What about the bow and arrow one at that site too? Arrows...
Keep the pictures coming!

 

[Dr. Syn]

whiskeyrat, I like your thinking. To me, if I'm caught out in a downpour or blizzard, I'm looking for an easy place to hole up. Not someplace I have to work for a couple of hours just to get out of the weather. Most folks are like that, they look for a quick out, and it's not going to be a place they have to work at to hang out for a couple of hours till the weather breaks. And folks talk, and pass on tips of places like that to get out of the weather.

Tell me where there's an overhang to block out the weather, not some place I have to shimmy between boulders, then drop down in a hole from a rope.

So yeah an out of the place cave, would have to be found by someone who knew where to find it, either from a lot of boots on the ground searching, or having a map of such.



p.s. How old is that mine you posted the photos of? Steel and wood looks pretty recent.

 

[whiskeyrat]

whiskeyrat, I like your thinking. To me, if I'm caught out in a downpour or blizzard, I'm looking for an easy place to hole up. Not someplace I have to work for a couple of hours just to get out of the weather. Most folks are like that, they look for a quick out, and it's not going to be a place they have to work at to hang out for a couple of hours till the weather breaks. And folks talk, and pass on tips of places like that to get out of the weather.

Tell me where there's an overhang to block out the weather, not some place I have to shimmy between boulders, then drop down in a hole from a rope.

So yeah an out of the place cave, would have to be found by someone who knew where to find it, either from a lot of boots on the ground searching, or having a map of such.



p.s. How old is that mine you posted the photos of? Steel and wood looks pretty recent.

That mine is one of the "3 sisters" mines (thats what the locals call them). Its just about 1/8 mile north from Bat Cave.

Yes I think its a recent mine but no idea when it was done.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Merry Christmas to you Treasurer Minder 2, I hope you and Beepers 2 are doing well. I miss your postings. I wanted to let you know, i saw your nugget with the coating on it,with the symbols, posted on a you tube video today, called Burrows cave 2/2, it was about 3/4 of the way tru it. May the Force be with you.

 

[whiskeyrat]

Merry Christmas to you Treasurer Minder 2, I hope you and Beepers 2 are doing well. I miss your postings. I wanted to let you know, i saw your nugget with the coating on it,with the symbols, posted on a you tube video today, called Burrows cave 2/2, it was about 3/4 of the way tru it. May the Force be with you.

Dog,
are you still active in the Caballos?
hard to find anyone still capable of climbing to partner with.
seems this hobby is dying fast.
wr

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Dog,
are you still active in the Caballos?
hard to find anyone still capable of climbing to partner with.
seems this hobby is dying fast.
wr

Hi Whiskeyrat. I dont hunt the caballos, i hunt the mountain ranges farther south and west,down by the boarder. I read these threads to pick up info. to use in the areas i hunt.I see alot of the same stuff. I working on wrapping up some more newer stuff,iam getting board with the newer stuff. So come the end of Jan.Feb. Iam gonna work some of the Ancient stuff. Iam gonna try this Aztec looking site. I believe the opening is in the back of the mouth around the red X area. Iam gonna follow the green line up in there,and hope i can get in.Dont know if ill have the courage to go in. If i was in the Caballos,id go treasure hunting with you.View attachment 1395015

 

[Bobkelly]

Hello not Peralta
Interesting theory.
I have a theory that runs close to yours. I have come across Doc Noss by accident, I do mineral surveys and was interested in a location in the Caballo's due to the mineral signatures present. Long story short before you know it I had people telling me stories associated with Doc and the whole Caballo bunch like Buster & Willie, the Gordons, the Holdens the Mitchells, the Palmers, Willie's nephew Leeland Alsup, Leno Carteago, Apache Jim wilson, Josie Bell Butler, Ms Peron and so on. I am sure you're aware of. Anyhow it was a whole new world opening up to me and in fact I thought was a bunch of BS. However I couldn't deny the mineral signatures that we were obtaining. Knowing that if, any of these stories were true well then you would have to have the source present. Off and on over the years I have revisited the area and performed many geophysical surveys with an array of instrumentation such as GPR, Infrared and Thermal imaging, EM-Pulse Induction,
AGI Supersting 8 Resistivity, Magnetometers, EMF imaging, Passive Magnetic Resonance, Satellite Digital Analysis. Having depth capabilities of data retrieval down to 300' With that said the Caballo Mountains contain some highly mineralized areas. With the approach that we had towards mineral exploration I started having some credible people contact me and share information with me stating that they felt I had a good chance in locating Doc's original area in the Caballo's. Based upon what I have discovered in the field through Geophysical surveys and files of documentation given to me by people directly connected either by relatives or research along with being brought to certain locations and shown areas of interest I have a theory of my own and of course it's just a theory.

Doc was born in 1894, did meet Geronimo in 1908/09, did obtain a rabbit skin vest map from Geronimo, did show up in the Caballo's in 1934, did locate the canyon area on the map due to obvious landmarks in the 1st day out,( "NOTE" this map was from an Indian not a Spaniard and was given major landmarks to find the location) did locate the air vent to the mine on his 3rd day out, by finding the mule's ears or rabbit ears outcropping, which also had a rock outcropping displaying the shape of an indian headdress and a side profile of a man or soldiers face, did clean out everything of value extending from the air vent to the first iron door over a period of 8 years, did find both dore bars with 20% gold 71% copper and 8% silver and Soto stalk gold bars about 89% gold, did have to work the caved in area to get the Soto Stalk bars out over time, did obtain maps to 5 major treasure locations, The Caballo's the Capitans, The Organs, Cloudcroft and Victorio Peak. Along with maps showing where 4 Spanish mines were located in the Caballos including the original one he found first, did locate Victorio Peak in 1936 from those maps, did find a completely different treasure storehouse within Vickie Peak, did revisit the original Caballo Spanish mine from Geronimo's map in 1942 and blasted the Mule's ears, Head Dress and profile of a Man's Face, Did plug the air vent with a large boulder and disguise the air vent. He did leave a total of 6 stacks of gold bars. 5 stacks in the main store room behind the iron door, the additional stack he probably wasn't aware of unless he understood the Spanish map that was in his pocket when he was killed. He was afraid to disturb the iron door fearing the whole thing would cave in that is the only reason why those 5 were not taken, did associate with other treasure hunters within the Caballo's, only to make sense of the maps he already possessed. Also NONE of the Caballo treasure hunters even knew he had a map. Nor did they know that Doc already had his own treasure, did join with Leno Carteago who had a map but Leno couldn't find the location until he partnered up with Doc, Doc had a map to that location also and between Leno's info and Doc's maps they located it right away. Doc was one of four who tortured Willie for three days, Doc did run with Willie, Buster, The Mitchells, The Palmers, Ms Perone, and a whole bunch of others trying to use their info to assist his info from the maps he obtained in the first location, "KEEPING YOUR ENEMIES CLOSE TO YOU" ALL THE WHILE NONE OF THEM KNEW ABOUT DOC'S LOCATION! After many murders and dastardly deeds happening within the Caballo's Doc fled and went to pursue Victorio Peak. Again none of the Caballo treasure hunters even knew about Vickie Peak that's why in the 1970's Willie showed up at Vickie Peak trying to claim that some of that gold was his, because he felt Doc must have moved gold bars from the Caballos to Vickie Peak and those gold bars had to come from one of his locations in the Caballo's,
That's where the rumor started with Doc moving gold to Vickie Peak. Leatha and Ova never mentioned to the Vickie Peak group(in the 1970's) about the Caballo's all along keeping the focus on Vickie Peak, Yet they knew where Doc got in first, The only people to go in that original site was Josie Bell Butler and a young Apache Indian girl that Doc was fooling around with, who lived in TorC or Hot Springs the rest of her years as late as of the 1990's, Doc never attempted to file a claim on the first Caballo site for many reasons, this is why he filed on Vickie Peak because he could.(yet even Vickie Peak had its own discrepancies) Yet he always kept a rented place in Hot springs keeping close to his original site and or sites. After 1942 Doc did not plan of re gaining easy access to the original site, In the 1990's Letha & Jerry did return to the Caballo's but did not know exactly where Doc got in, In fact all of the markers were already destroyed yet everyone was still looking for them. Today there is a Spanish map (not the Geronimo map) floating around and it has Doc's original site. Although Doc made plenty of mistakes he did a great job is keeping his original site secret enough to keep anyone else from finding it other than the two women he took to it. Which they never did return without him. The Apache Indian girl was brought in after the gold between the air vent and the iron door was gone. She described the priest and the other bodies, the smelter, the bellows and the iron door and what was behind it saying the door was buckled open about 6 to 8" allowing enough room to see the stacks of gold bars. That is what Josie Bell Butler said also but there still was gold bars located between the air vent and the iron door when Josie was brought in.

That's my Theory
Unfortunately Letha or Jerry was unable to locate Doc's original site in the Caballo's. Neither has any of the other treasure hunters who have attempted to locate it. Some in which have lost their life in pursuing this specific site. Gold does a strange thing to people and that is once they believe that it's there, they will exhaust all of their resources and others to get it. Even when all of their attempts are met with utter failure and is evident their belief is wrong they will still believe it's the right location and in many cases return to the same location to further exhaust additional resources. It's like a disease. But if one can enjoy the hunt and appreciate the history then treasure hunting is one of the most enjoyable hobbies there is. Myself personally I like gold also but I love the mystery and the history as well. Given that there are so many versions of the Doc Noss story, it truly is difficult to know what really happened. However I have been exposed to a lot of documentation, personal testimony, physical evidence and Geophysical data results that starts to paint a picture. I have based my theory upon that.

 

[sdcfia]

"History would be a wonderful thing - if it were only true."
Leo Tolstoy

 

[whiskeyrat]

Bobkelly:
Thanks for the post. I appreciate you information. I too am becoming more fascinated with the history etc surrounding these mysteries, as well as the excitement of searching for a stack of gold bars.
Keeps me in the mountains instead of in front of a computer screen or tv.
So can you post or distinguish between the Geronimo map and the current Spanish map that has Docs original site??
If the map has Docs original site, lets go find it!!!
I would love to see the dead priest and secretary with my own eyes.

thanks again for your information and candid opinion.

wr

 

[UncleMatt]

Off and on over the years I have revisited the area and performed many geophysical surveys with an array of instrumentation such as GPR, Infrared and Thermal imaging, EM-Pulse Induction, AGI Supersting 8 Resistivity, Magnetometers, EMF imaging, Passive Magnetic Resonance, Satellite Digital Analysis. Having depth capabilities of data retrieval down to 300'

Please tell us which of those technologies you feel can retrieve data down to 300 feet

 

[nmth]

Please tell us which of those technologies you feel can retrieve data down to 300 feet

Well, borehole stuff is good to the depth of the borehole.

Other things depend on target size. Very long conductive targets can be found at depths like that. But we're talking things many 10s to 100s of feet for 300 ft depth, depending on soil.

In the Caballos in Rocky areas, I'd not trust GPR much past 10-15 ft. if that.

The other stuff - not real sure what we're talking about...

I like the rest of the story part of the post originally referred to. And it's on topic more than the average here ('specially my posts) Seems to be a vote for both Caballos *and* Hembrillo.

 

[sdcfia]

Well, borehole stuff is good to the depth of the borehole.

Other things depend on target size. Very long conductive targets can be found at depths like that. But we're talking things many 10s to 100s of feet for 300 ft depth, depending on soil.

In the Caballos in Rocky areas, I'd not trust GPR much past 10-15 ft. if that.

The other stuff - not real sure what we're talking about...

I like the rest of the story part of the post originally referred to. And it's on topic more than the average here ('specially my posts) Seems to be a vote for both Caballos *and* Hembrillo.

Yeah, boreholes work as long as you keep the cores or bag the cuttings. A guy I know had a water well drilled on a piece of empty land sitting on top of several hundred feet of limestone. Sure enough, a couple hundred feet down they went through a nice layer of high grade silver ore. Later, finally, they found water.

GPR is perhaps the most expensive, overrated, unwieldy to use and difficult to interpret data as any geo device available to the unsuspecting public. Sure, it works fine for what it was developed for - checking rebar depths in nice smooth concrete construction.

The "other stuff" - whiskey talk for the most part.

 

[UncleMatt]

The truth is as far as I know there is no none-invasive technology that can collect data 300 feet down.