Do you have PROOF of a KGC treasure?

[lamar]

Dear group;
I believe that the topic here is actual proof of KGC treasure, not twisted trees or alleged signs. Also, the USA wasn't taken off of the Gold Standard until President Roosevelt did so in 1933, however this series of Congressional Acts and Executive Orders did not illegalize the ownership of gold by individuals, they only placed limits on the amount of gold bullion any that any single peson could possess, in order to curtail hoarding. Of course, in 1933 there was a depression going on in full swing, so one may safely assume that there were no large amounts of gold being hidden away during that time.

Also, on a totally unrelated note, why does there seem to be an inordinate amount of fear of a governmental agency discovering that one has located and recovered a gold cache? If the finder has obeyed all laws, then that person should have no fear of losing the cache in a government seizure, however, the key words here are *has obeyed all laws*.

So, if a person is afraid that the US government may perhaps seize a hoard from the finder, then would it not stand to reason that the person in question somehow did something illegal in the accquisition of the treasure? I am afraid that in most instances throughout the world, the 'finders keepers' law does not apply, as most of the buried treasure hoards today were accquired by ill gotten means, and if a person were to stumble upon, say Dan Coopers' stash, then the finder would be morally obligated to return the funds to the bank from which they were taken.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

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[Old Dog]

Lamar,

You and several others talk a big show,
I would seriously like to see you put in the work entailed finding and recovering even the smallest of one of these caches.
I know they exist as I have seen with my own eyes.
when YOU do the work required and make the recovery,...then and only then...
You can show me what all of this big talk is worth.

Until then I will tell you and the whole group The only ones with fantasies here ...
are the ones who never post even a sign of a hunt they have been on.
They only try to discourage others who try.

A great case of alligator words and butterfly backup.

Thom

 

[Old Dog]

Rennwaggen.

Best of luck,
Hope you get your truth
I do hope it's a big one

Thom

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Once again, when we examine the historical plats of the actual township in the 1860s, we may soon discover that the population of Cheraw, South Carolina was less than 1,000 inhabitants. This would mean, that in order for the bank of Cheraw, South Carolina to have had $200,000 on deposits, that every man, woman and child in the township would have had to had an average of $200.00 deposited in the bank proper. This would seem to be highly improbable, taking into account the monthly average wage scale of the period, not to mention the fact that the South was still struggling from the effects of the Civil War.

Lamar, you seem to have done some research into these things, but there is one area you missed. Look up the census records for the time. Take a look at real and personal property values, not to mention slaves. You might be surprised at the dollar amounts you'll see. Just because an area is poor, that doesn't mean that there are no fat cats there.

 

[Hoss KGC]

Also, on a totally unrelated note, why does there seem to be an inordinate amount of fear of a governmental agency discovering that one has located and recovered a gold cache? If the finder has obeyed all laws, then that person should have no fear of losing the cache in a government seizure, however, the key words here are *has obeyed all laws*.

If you believe that if all laws are followed in a recovery and that the US government won't take it away, then you keep your head in the sand and find a new hobby. Do some research on a company called Platoro Ltd. Inc. I think you'll find that your position on this is flawed.
Boattow

 

[okietreasurehunter]

LAMAR just because we were taken off of the gold standard during the depression doesn't mean there wasn't any money out there to be hidden. I have collected numerous stories about people hiding money after 1933. If you want proof look at how many newspaper articles there are out there about a lucky person finding a small hoard of gold coins. We were taken off of the gold standard because our gold was being bought here at a set price and being shipped overseas and sold at a nice profit. It wasn't because of concerns of hoarding.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good Morning my Friend LAMAR:

A question, what about any buried materiel up at Tayopa? According to my records there may be 610 mule loads of Au and 1200 bars of Ag., etc. etc.

Since the society will not admit to any mining activities wherever or whatever, then it must belong to the Local Indians that were used as labor.

But again, they do not have any proof either, since they supposedly worked for the Jesuits who never mined anywhere---..

So it must belong to the People, the gov't., that owns the land.

Since it can, and will be, easily be classified as a national treasure, or of historical significance, which it is. conclusions -------?

Where would that leave me? Gov't s are "notorious " for "NOT" being generous.

Old chicken or the egg thingie.

And one wonders why I haven't "touched" it yet. sheehs.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. One must remember, if a minor official can recover a large amount of money for the gov't, by any means available, morally or legally correct, or otherwise, his dept and he are advanced. Humanity or common sense does not rule in cases such as this, only Fiscal results.

Incidentally, the US gov't has stated that "they" are not bound, legally or morally, by an official's action, especially in regards to National park and forestry lands.. Interesting, they simply say that he exceeded his authority or did not interpretate his duties correctly and so are not to be held responsible. Why can't I be allowed the same defenxe?

p.p.s. Yes this example does belong in here, since it equally applies to any recoveries, of shall we say, KGC depositories.

 

[lamar]

Dear beale;
Sir, for your information I was born and raised in the South and it should seem glaringly obvious that some of us paid slightly more attention to the rules of gentlemanly conduct than others. However, me being from the South doesn't change the facts that the facts are still the facts. And, for what it's worth, I happen to agree that nobody should pay attention to me, my friend. Of course, then again, I have nothing to sell to anyone, therefore why SHOULD anyone listen to me?

I also have no ulterior motives for wanting someone to believe me, and nor should I, as the information which I've provided to this topic is a matter of public record and it is available to anyone who is willing to put in the research.

I must confess that I am not privy to this so-called "Rebel knowledge" which I have been accused of not possessing. On the other hand, I havebeen rewarded with the grasp of "Yankee knowledge" so this seems like a fit consolation prize. Also, strictly as an observation, it would seem to me that a person in possession of 'Rebel knowledge' would most likely know where Cheraw is located, or at least be able to look at a map and point to the spot.

That George Alfred Trenholm was in fact the second treasurer of the Confederate States is no big secret, either. In fact, it's often been surmised that he was a model, or at least a partial model for the character Rhett Butler (from Gone With the Wind, for those of you not possessing Rebel knowledge).

That John Fraser & Co. had an England office should come as no great surprise, either, as England, even though they were dismally lacking in Rebel knowledge, possessed most of the worlds' textile mills at the time. Therefore, it should stand to reason that the USA would ship at least a large of it's cotton overseas.

For the sake of argument, let's say that the South harvested a total of 10,000,000$ worth of cotton annually. This figure is astronomically high, but it should serve it's intended purpose nicely. Now, let's assume that the South shipped 50% of it's cotton to the Northern states. Again, this figure is low, but once more, it shall serve our purpose. So now, let's say that the other 50% of the Souths' annual cotton crop was shipped overseas to England.

Now, let's take out Mr. Trenholms' 1.1% cut and we find that he realized a comission of 55,000$ for the year, a tidy sum of money in those days to be sure, however it's not anywhere close to 50,000,000$. Someone please inform me, does possessing Rebel knowledge entail knowing how to manipulate a calculator?

Once again, for the sake of clarity, no matter how you slice it, 50,000,000.00$ worth of gold in the mid 1800s weighed 2,500,000 troy ounces, or 208,334 Troy pounds. It doesn't matter what sort of knowledge a person possesses, Rebel or Yankee, that is how much that 50,000,000$ worth of gold weighed back then.

One fact that is often overlooked is that the Southern gentleman George Alfred Trenholm was perhaps unwittingly, through lust for wealth, a major instigator of the American Civil War. This fine upstanding Southern gentleman is at least partially responsible for sending some 500,000 US and CSA soldiers to their graves, with the same amount being wounded on both sides of the conflict.

Not being privy to Rebel knowledge I must also confess that I haven't the slightest idea of what a portmanteaus is, however, if someone were using one to tote 20$ US gold pieces around in, I might remind everyone that a 20$ gold piece weighed 1 troy ounce back in the 1800s, so whoever was lugging around the portmanteaus filled with 20$ gold pieces wasn't likely to be carrying around very many, unless of course the person in question was a bodybuilder or something along those lines.

From examples of the Rebel knowledge which have been laid before me, I would find it safe to assume that exercises in mathmatical computations are not a necessary pre-requisite to have Rebel knowledge, as well as not having a basic grasp of geography.

Again, please pay no attention to me whatsoever. Instead, I implore each and every one of you to pay attention to what your individual logic and common sense says to you. And please remember everyone, that dilligent and devoted research is the ONE key to success. Buying every book that comes out on the market full of 'expert' advice has never helped anyone, however hours and days and weeks in libraries, archives and courthouses, has!
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear Real de Tayopa;
You posed an interesting dilemna, to be sure my friend. If I were to discover a rich vein of ore than I would have no compunction about exploiting it for all it was worth, however if I were to stumble upon an ancient Incan mine, then I would be morally obligated to announce it as a historical site, as the information which could be recovered would far outstrip the materials gains which I might receive.

It would kill me to do it, but I would do it. So much of the history of the American natives has already been lost forever and to think that I would be a participant in helping them to lose even more of their cultural history is criminal.

As for the government, "Reddite ergo quae Caesaris sunt Caesari et quae Dei sunt Deo".

As in all things, let your conscious guide you down lifes' path, my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good afternoon My Friend LAMAR:: You posted -->

Not being privy to Rebel knowledge I must also confess that I haven't the slightest idea of what a portmanteaus is, however, if someone were using one to tote 20$ US gold pieces around in, I might remind everyone that a 20$ gold piece weighs 1 troy ounce, so whoever was lugging around the portmanteaus filled with 20$ gold pieces wasn't likely to be carrying around very many, unless of course the person in question was bodybuilder or something along those lines.
~~~~~~~~~~~~ T
To put it simply, I agree 100 %. Most do not understand just how heavy Gold is, a simple block of one cu ft = approx 1204 lbs Troy.

As a crude rule, every cu in of Gold is equal to .7 lbs Troy. so a brief case/ saddle bag of say 12" x 4" by 6" full of gold coins would weigh aporx. 288 lbs Troy . I pity the poor horse or mule that has to carry this with a rider more than across the street..

So I defy anyone to pick up a brief case of Gold coins, let alone the case withstanding the weight. As for saddle bags full of gold coins sigh

As my, our friend, LAMAR has suggested, play with your calculator for a bit .

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Never make the mistake of insulting or running down anyone simply because they may not agree with your pet hopes or theories, but, thank them for "taking the time" to help you on your quest, even if it shows you that you may be on the wrong track.

If your theory or data cannot hold up to reasonable questioning, then it should be reexamined carefully.

Also, please rmember that only "I" am perfect and with out fault, keep my wife out ot this, she is prejudiced.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

OHIO LAMAR mi Buddy:

You posted -->

if I were to stumble upon an ancient Incan mine, then I would be morally obligated to announce it as a historical site, as the information which could be recovered would far outstrip the materials gains which I might receive
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree, but in this case it was exploited in the late 1500's, possibly the early 1600's. and it was not an Indian mine, although they worked it, probably involuntarily..
***********************************************************************************

You also posted -->

It would kill me to do it, but I would do it. So much of the history of the American natives has already been lost forever and to think that I would be a participant in helping them to lose even more of their cultural history is criminal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True
*************************************************************************************

You also posted -->

As for the government, "Reddite ergo quae Caesaris sunt Caesari et quae Dei sunt Deo".
~~~~~~~~~~~~

As we Mexican bandidos say "We don need no sitnkin Cesar, he is long gone", but unfortnately, his legacy lives on, even more heavily.
**************************************************************************************

You posted -->

As in all things, let your conscious guide you down lifes' path, my friend.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Didin't I ever mention that I am Irish / French (plus 57 other varieties?) what can you expect?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[truckinbutch]

OHIO LAMAR mi Buddy:

You posted -->

if I were to stumble upon an ancient Incan mine, then I would be morally obligated to announce it as a historical site, as the information which could be recovered would far outstrip the materials gains which I might receive
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree, but in this case it was exploited in the late 1500's, possibly the early 1600's. and it was not an Indian mine, although they worked it, probably involuntarily..
***********************************************************************************

You also posted -->

It would kill me to do it, but I would do it. So much of the history of the American natives has already been lost forever and to think that I would be a participant in helping them to lose even more of their cultural history is criminal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True
*************************************************************************************

You also posted -->

As for the government, "Reddite ergo quae Caesaris sunt Caesari et quae Dei sunt Deo".
~~~~~~~~~~~~

As we Mexican bandidos say "We don need no sitnkin Cesar, he is long gone", but unfortnately, his legacy lives on, even more heavily.
**************************************************************************************

You posted -->

As in all things, let your conscious guide you down lifes' path, my friend.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Didin't I ever mention that I am Irish / French (plus 57 other varieties?) what can you expect?

Don Jose de La Mancha

A fine mix of hybrid vigor like many of us who's first loyalty is to his own.

 

[lamar]

Dear beale;
Please accept my apologies if I somehow offended you, my friend. To defend myself, whenever someone makes a statement to 'pay no attention' to me, I tend to assume a defensive posture and one of my defense mechanisms is the use of humor. Again, I meant no offense, I only sought to enlighten.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear Cache Crazy;
Your statement:

"Lamar, you seem to have done some research into these things, but there is one area you missed. Look up the census records for the time. Take a look at real and personal property values, not to mention slaves. You might be surprised at the dollar amounts you'll see. Just because an area is poor, that doesn't mean that there are no fat cats there."

I agree with you. When I posted a figure of 200.00$ for every man, woman and child, I did so for the purpose of illumination. I did not mean that every person would have had to deposited 200.00$ apiece, only that this amount would have been the median average for the area and the timeframe. I agree that some had more than others, however I would tend to disagree with a statement that a township with an aggregate population of less than 1,000 inhabitants would keep 200,000$ on account immediately following the Civil War. Much closer to the truth would have been 5 or 6,000$ with 15,000$ on hand in the bank being a princely sum.

What everyone must understand is that the South suffered greatly from the effects of the Civil War because a large portion of it's economy was based in agriculture, and this also affected the North to a lesser degree. In order to realize the magnitude of the situation, we must first examine the dual blows that the South suffered from the Civil War.

First, with the abolition of slavery, a percentage of the workforce evaporated overnight. This was bad enough, but when we add in the second factor, that of the huge amount of men who were either killed outright or wounded in battle, then we soon understand that there were practially no able bodied men left in order to work the land and produce crops. That the Civil War decimated the populations of the North and the South is no great mystery, and the death of such a large percentage of it's young men, the Civil War also removed population expansion, as every man that was killed in battle would no longer produce offspring, therefore for every man killed, an entire lineage of farmers would be wiped out.

The North also suffered as there was a severe shortage of men to work the factories and mills, however the North relieved this problem, as least partially, by opening the doors to immigrants. The Civil War was a primary factor in the first great immigration of the 1870s. As a direct result of the Civil War, immigrants flocked to US shores in record numbers, eager to forge a new life in the USA.

The recovery process was much slower in the South, however. It would take generations for the South to be able to start producing agricultural products meeting or excceding 1850s levels.

In closing, when we examine the cause and effect of the Civil War, we may be able to state with a high level of certainty that the South became bankrupt immediately following the Civil War.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Walker's Greyhounds]

Gee! Here I am reading all of this about the South being poor and wiped out after the civil war and wondering why our family and many others weren't in East Texas. Our family migrated to Texas from Tennessee in the mid 1830's so they were well established by the civil war. From what I remember being told they made money off the civil war. Both of my great great grandfathers fought in the civil war for the south and when they returned they didn't sign any loyalty papers or surrender. They both owned land and one of them received a civil war pension.

The families that stayed at home to tend to the crops and stock sold both to the north and south. The only reason they sold to the north was they were afraid they would have stole what they needed. Both the north and south paid in gold. Yes there were families that were hurt as some didn't make it home, but none went hungry. I do realize that there weren't any major battles fought close to them and where they were fought families were hurt in the south. These old country people were a close nit group and I do mean very close nit.

After the civil war many a northern thug tried to come into these areas and punish them. They were first asked to leave (sometimes) and if they didn't....nobody ever saw them again. They didn't tolerate this BS. By the next generation both my great grand fathers were well on their feet as one owned a cotton gin and the other a very large ranch/farm.

One of the things that were present was a very old masonic lodge....need I say more. You want proof on any of this, all I can say is sorry these old families didn't advertise or make public any records. They didn't use banks either as they didn't trust the north and for a good reason. The north was still trying to punish them and that lasted long after the civil war.

There are many tales of KGC burying money around some of these parts of East Texas. You might find a fruit jar or so, but I don't know about the rest of it. I do know these old people are real tire of people trespassing on their land. If you hunt...talk to the land owner. Some will and some won't let you treasure hunt on their property. The ones that won't.....you need to stay off their property. To this day I rarely see any law enforcement officers in certain parts of East Texas. When you see the sign posted that says "We Don't Call 911 Here" realize that they really don't. Most of these old people would give you the shirt off their back to help you. They are good people, but don't cross them.

 

[lamar]

Dear Briefcase Bob;
Texas was a part of the CSA mostly in name only and Texas played an almost non-existant role in the Civil War. In fact, the part Texas played could be viewed as a 'supply state' during the war , mostly due to geographical location and an overall lack of interest. I am not talking about the very limited role that Texas played during the Civil War, I am mentioning the states that were grossly affected, such as Georgia and Virginia.

I also happen to be familiar with good ol' Texas hospitality and generousity. With a name like Lamar, I'll leave it up you to guess in which state that I was born in.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Walker's Greyhounds]

Hi Lamar,
Don't take my email as a slam. That is not it how it was intended. I know a lot of people in some of the southern states got hurt. My experience is just Texas and I know a lot of people lost a lot. We had family members from Tennessee move down here and over to West Texas after the civil war. I can tell you none of them came broke. I don't know about West Texas, but I do know they kept the yanks pretty much out of our area of East Texas. As per the KGC, I know they existed much later than people think they did. A lot later. I believe the reason they existed was to protect their way of life and keep the trouble makers out. As per the big super catches, I really don't know. I would find it hard to believe that they really existed or if they did the money was used to help families as that was their way of life. The last depression really hurt a lot of people in that area and if there had been any large catches they would have been used. However, no one really knows for sure and if any of them do have knowledge or have found something they wouldn't tell anyone. I know I sure as hell wouldn't. Have I ever seen their signs? Sure I have they are all over Texas. All you have to do is look.

I would never discourage anyone from looking for that pot of gold at the end of the KGC rainbow, taking to the hoot owl trail, or looking for any pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Its nice to have dreams. Even if all you found was a old amber colored fruit jar of gold & silver coins you would have a tidy sum of money and who knows.....you might even find one of the wells. Just cover every hole you dig and get permission to go on someones property in Texas. In Texas it is legal to kill someone who is stealing your property and anything buried on your land is your property.

 

[lamar]

Dear beale;
Somehow, from merely glancing at the figures which you've posted, they seem to be highly suspect. If these figures are representive of those from the Civil War, then I would say that someone must have made a mistake somewhere.

It just doesn't add up, my friend. The Confederate dollar had no value, even as the war was raging, yet the figures which you've posted show a thriving economy as well as a heathly balance sheet.Again, something seems suspicious.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Smee]

. . . I can't remember the full name but you can google and find the book. She wrote two I believe. Read that book and then say that Mr. Trenholm did not have $50 Million in gold. His future son-in-law carried two portmanteaus filled with $20. gold. No matter what I post you will not believe as others on this forum -------- You know what I don't need to convince anyone but myself.

The item on the top left is a portmaneau --- a "hand valise" or what we today might call a briefcase. That thing certainly looks like it is bigger than 1 cubic foot, but for the sake of argument, let's say it is 1 cubic foot.

The weight of 1 cubic foot of gold is about 1,200 pounds. But for the sake of this discussion, let's say half of the case was lost to the space between coins and the fact that they are round and not square. That would still leave each portmaneau weighing in at 600 pounds. I don't believe the handles would support such a weight . . . that's more than twice what I weigh, and I doubt they would support my weight.

Why didn't the book mention how the portmaneaus would have broken under the weight of the load they contained if they were ever picked up? Did they keep a couple of hand trucks with them? That story won't hold water. If they lie about one thing, what would keep them from lying about something else?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Thus the "saying"... Don't put ALL yer eggs... in ONE basket !