Do the Stone Tablets lead to somewhere OTHER than the Superstition Mtns?

[deducer]

Deducer,

You wrote elsewhere:

"Pending a reply from Diane Hadley regarding some questions I have about the translation of Fr. Segesser's papers, particularly his grasp of Spanish, I am now of the belief that the "spelling errors" could simply have just been intentional, and not necessarily coded (except for the missing "R" from "Coazon" which we see above the horse's mane), and were done for the same reason that Spanish was used as the language on those stones: to disguise authorship."

You are using an excellent source there. Believe she can shed a great deal of personal insight into Father Charles Polzer. Diane does not believe in "Jesuit Treasure".

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Hi Joe,

My intentions as far as approaching Diane, has neither to do with Fr. Polzer or Jesuit treasure, but with Fr. Segesser's command of written Spanish which may answer some questions I have in regard to what is written on the Stone Maps.

I am well aware of your opinion of these stones.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Cholla jumpeer, Fr.Charles Polzer and I were friends, he even offered to dance the first dance when I found Tayopa. < -- tongue in cheek ? Even to his death while waiting for reconstructive surgery in Santa Barbara he insisted that the Jesuits did no mining in Mexico.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[markmar]

Don Jose

Of course the Jesuits did no mining in Mexico . They were making only the accountings . You should to make the correct question .

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi Joe,

My intentions as far as approaching Diane, has neither to do with Fr. Polzer or Jesuit treasure, but with Fr. Segesser's command of written Spanish which may answer some questions I have in regard to what is written on the Stone Maps.

I am well aware of your opinion of these stones.

Hi there Deducer,

Fr. Segesser did not have command of writing Spanish. All of Philipps' correspondence to the church were written in Latin. All other letters to family and friends were written in German. His letters were later translated into Spanish.

I have included a link for further information: Introduction to Philipp Segesser's Letters (in English Translation | Dr. Albrecht Classen

Diane may know of the person who did the Spanish translation. I would be interested to know who that individual may have been.

Interesting...

Ellie B

 

[somehiker]

Museum Documenting Jesuit Contact - Research Highlights - Arizona State Museum

Possibly Lynda M. Romero also.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Manus my friend, They used coadjutors for the accounting, not an ordained Priest. And yes, They did mine all over the world including Mexico,by their own admission.

. Ready for your coffee?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[deducer]

Hi there Deducer,
Fr. Segesser did not have command of writing Spanish. All of Philipps' correspondence to the church were written in Latin. All other letters to family and friends were written in German. His letters were later translated into Spanish.

Fr. Segesser used Spanish phrases in his letters and other documents, and the link you pasted confirms that. Although I do not expect to get conclusive answers to my questions, it will be interesting to get an idea of Segesser's and the other friars' grasp of written Spanish. It will also be very interesting to see if the style of one of their handwriting happens to compare to what is on the stones.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Fr. Segesser used Spanish phrases in his letters and other documents, and the link you pasted confirms that. Although I do not expect to get conclusive answers to my questions, it will be interesting to get an idea of Segesser's and the other friars' grasp of written Spanish. It will also be very interesting to see if the style of one of their handwriting happens to compare to what is on the stones.

Hi Deducer,

As I stated he did not have command of the Spanish language and for that matter neither do I. I know many phrases and can also write them down. I do not understand the meaning of your statement; " It will also be very interesting to see if the style of one of their handwriting happens to compare to what is on the stones." Please explain...


EB

 

[deducer]

Hi Deducer,

As I stated he did not have command of the Spanish language and for that matter neither do I. I know many phrases and can also write them down. I do not understand the meaning of your statement; " It will also be very interesting to see if the style of one of their handwriting happens to compare to what is on the stones." Please explain...

EB

Have you then had the opportunity to examine all of the documents and letters that Fr. Segesser wrote, to the extent of being able to make such a bold claim?

Are you aware that what you have said is in direct contradiction to what was stated in the link you pasted? Specifically this statement:

Occasionally he (Segesser) also used some Spanish phrases

Puede-usted explicarlo, por favor.

 

[cactusjumper]

Fr. Segesser used Spanish phrases in his letters and other documents, and the link you pasted confirms that. Although I do not expect to get conclusive answers to my questions, it will be interesting to get an idea of Segesser's and the other friars' grasp of written Spanish. It will also be very interesting to see if the style of one of their handwriting happens to compare to what is on the stones.

deducer,

One of Father Segesser's tasks in the missions, was to teach the natives......Spanish.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Ellie Baba]

deducer,

One of Father Segesser's tasks in the missions, was to teach the natives......Spanish.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

"Au contraire, mon frère". Father Segesser's task was not to teach the natives Spanish, but to learn their native tongue. We know for a fact that when the Jesuits were expelled and the Franciscans arrived the natives could not understand the questions that were being asked of them by the Franciscans. The Franciscans believed (like many others) that the Jesuits operated mines and hid their gold and silver. The Franciscans were determined to convince the natives to tell them of its whereabouts. It didn't do them any good, for the Franciscans did not understand the natives' tongue. Petty doggone clever IMHO.

This is the first time you have surprised me!

Take care my Brother,

Ellie B

 

[Ellie Baba]

Have you then had the opportunity to examine all of the documents and letters that Fr. Segesser wrote, to the extent of being able to make such a bold claim?

Are you aware that what you have said is in direct contradiction to what was stated in the link you pasted? Specifically this statement:



Puede-usted explicarlo, por favor.

Deducer,

I will make this simple; Considering the number of phrases found on the stone maps to include the misspelled words written in Spanish, how would one be able to determine an author simply by comparing the many styles of letters written in Spanish by a number of Jesuit Priests? May I submit a sample that I have penned myself?

No entiendo su metodo de la logica.

Ellie B

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

"Au contraire, mon frère". Father Segesser's task was not to teach the natives Spanish, but to learn their native tongue. We know for a fact that when the Jesuits were expelled and the Franciscans arrived the natives could not understand the questions that were being asked of them by the Franciscans. The Franciscans believed (like many others) that the Jesuits operated mines and hid their gold and silver. The Franciscans were determined to convince the natives to tell them of its whereabouts. It didn't do them any good, for the Franciscans did not understand the natives' tongue. Petty doggone clever IMHO.

This is the first time you have surprised me!

Take care my Brother,

Ellie B

Ellie,

You may be correct, but from page 93 of John Kessell's "Mission of Sorrows" I get this quote: "After the morning prayer a bell is rung as a signal for Mass, the choir master prays the rosary with the people and afterwards sings the All Saints Litany. Besides the prayers which the Indians say in their own languages, the king and the superiors of the Order have direct that the Indians learn also in Spanish the Christian doctrine and the necessary prayers. The missionary must, therefore, know Spanish. A knowledge of Spanish is also required of the missionary so that he may hear confession of the many Spaniards settled in this country. With Spanish, the missionary may also do business with the merchants of this nation...."

The above quote is from a letter written by......Father Segesser to "his relatives in Europe".

Ellie, this is not difficult information to get, so I am surprised that you do not know it.

Take care, my friend,

Joe

 

[deducer]

Deducer,

I will make this simple; Considering the number of phrases found on the stone maps to include the misspelled words written in Spanish, how would one be able to determine an author simply by comparing the many styles of letters written in Spanish by a number of Jesuit Priests? May I submit a sample that I have penned myself?

Ellie B

Maybe this will help:

Introduction to Graphology

No entiendo su metodo de la logica.

Because it makes too much sense?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Fascinating, another tool. incidentally on my notes, I can't read them my self after a day or so ??

don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie,

You may be correct, but from page 93 of John Kessell's "Mission of Sorrows" I get this quote: "After the morning prayer a bell is rung as a signal for Mass, the choir master prays the rosary with the people and afterwards sings the All Saints Litany. Besides the prayers which the Indians say in their own languages, the king and the superiors of the Order have direct that the Indians learn also in Spanish the Christian doctrine and the necessary prayers. The missionary must, therefore, know Spanish. A knowledge of Spanish is also required of the missionary so that he may hear confession of the many Spaniards settled in this country. With Spanish, the missionary may also do business with the merchants of this nation...."

The above quote is from a letter written by......Father Segesser to "his relatives in Europe".

Ellie, this is not difficult information to get, so I am surprised that you do not know it.

Take care, my friend,

Joe

Hey Joe,

I knew that as soon as I mentioned my surprise to your statement there would be some fallout. I just had to wait...I knew you were looking for the truth. You found it, and I apologize for doubting your earlier. However, we both learned something as it is our nature. There are many different ways to gather information if one knows how to use the tools that are available.

Thank you,

Ellie B

 

[Ellie Baba]

Maybe this will help:

Introduction to Graphology


Because it makes too much sense?

Hi Deducer,

Now it does...somewhat, I'll have to wait and see what you come up with. The human mind fascinates me, communication is a powerful stimulant. Would you agree? Your methods will be put to the test and whether you win or loose (like Denver) is not as important as perseverance. I will admit that I do not know everything, for I am a Jack-of-all trades and a master of some. Sorry to have rattled your cage, an inquiring mind needed to know.

Keep up the good work,

Ellie B

 

[cactusjumper]

Hey Joe,

I knew that as soon as I mentioned my surprise to your statement there would be some fallout. I just had to wait...I knew you were looking for the truth. You found it, and I apologize for doubting your earlier. However, we both learned something as it is our nature. There are many different ways to gather information if one knows how to use the tools that are available.

Thank you,

Ellie B

Ellie,

I found the quote in the first book I opened. It's also mentioned in a number of other books, but I knew there were letters from Segesser in Kessell's book. I know the information is also in Polzer's work, as well as Bolten's and a number of others.

On the other hand, I can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning.

Take care,

Joe

 

[deducer]

Hi Deducer,

Now it does...somewhat, I'll have to wait and see what you come up with. The human mind fascinates me, communication is a powerful stimulant. Would you agree? Your methods will be put to the test and whether you win or loose (like Denver) is not as important as perseverance. I will admit that I do not know everything, for I am a Jack-of-all trades and a master of some. Sorry to have rattled your cage, an inquiring mind needed to know.

Keep up the good work,

Ellie B

No worries; you did not rattle my cage one bit. For me, seeing this as a "win or lose" proposition is pretty juvenile, not to mention short-sighted. I don't have a horse in this race other than to find out as much as I can about what has turned out to be a very fascinating puzzle for me.

The argument of whether the Stone Maps are a hoax or not will likely never be settled, but the discussions that they have generated has been very interesting for me to read, even if arcane or downright bizarre at times.

 

[Ellie Baba]

No worries; you did not rattle my cage one bit. For me, seeing this as a "win or lose" proposition is pretty juvenile, not to mention short-sighted. I don't have a horse in this race other than to find out as much as I can about what has turned out to be a very fascinating puzzle for me.

The argument of whether the Stone Maps are a hoax or not will likely never be settled, but the discussions that they have generated has been very interesting for me to read, even if arcane or downright bizarre at times.

Deducer,

A word my friend; I have found that whatever I do in life I will view as though looking through a child's eyes. Life is a game that we play and we play to win. Why children learn to play games with each other should shed some light on this subject. Every decision we make results in a win or a loss. If we look to far into the distance (now that is being short sited) we can miss the beauty along with the details in between. You say that you do not have a horse in the race, your interest is to learn and gather pieces of the puzzle. No one will invest their time, brain power and intellectual prowess to receive an absolute "0". We are motivated by some type of reward whether it be personal (as in your case), or to be recognized by our peers.

I respect your initial comment that this subject has interested you and now you have entered the arena to play the game. All eyes are watching and waiting to see who will come out on top. My wish is that all of us somehow could come out on top. I have proved that the stone maps are not a hoax, no longer a mystery as far as I am concerned. I have no problem sharing much of what I know with others and some things I cannot. Our work is not yet completed and I do not intend to leave this world without leaving a memorial to those of us who have strived for the truth and in someway obtain physical immortality. My Spiritual immortality has already been guaranteed; now, there is a real mystery.

If you are ever out this way drop me a line. We'll take a drive and look at what the Group has created on top of creation itself.

Have a great week,

EB