Do the Stone Tablets lead to somewhere OTHER than the Superstition Mtns?

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

Looks like it's time for "new" people to pop up with another story. It never seems to end, but at least we are all on "vacation", along with NP.

Hope all is well and you are getting better.

Take care,

Joe

 

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[Azquester]

NP, Keep the faith brother.

Stay away from the Sups and get out to other places a little more.

Those Maps are a real as the cement and glue they were made with.

Bob

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

geeze...now I see the 'why', to the behavior on the other site.

 

[Hal Croves]

That's what everyone is wondering......if its a real building, painting, in arizona, old mission, out house?
Would be nice if you could clear this up for us !

View attachment 870635

Just wanted to help with the photo/painting debate.
It is absolutely a photo.
Note the gradation of light/shadow in this enhanced image through the windows and on the back wall.
Then look at the detail of the mountains behind.

Lots of early filming done in the area by the motion picture studios....
Could it have been a set?

NP PERALTA,
Your wrote that the photograph has been in your family for 85 years and that you have the negative.
Why not end the debate and post a picture of the negative?. Just a quick shot of it perhaps held against the window glass to back light it. This should end the debate as to the age of the photograph.
Thank you my friend!

 

[Hal Croves]

Do you know where that house is from? I do and have been there a few times....

You used the word house. Was that intentional?
Will you share its location? If not, can you explain why?
Perhaps it will help a few thinkers here on the TN.

I cant get past the number of window openings on this structure.
Seems excessive or perhaps it had a wealthy benefactor.
Also, no structural wood to be seen... (excluding the windows)?
How do roofing timbers decay without damaging the adobe structure?
Thanks!

Here is the image enlarged.
Click to see full size.
No question about the medium.
It is a photo.

View attachment 870663
​

and for comparison, an 85 year old color photograph.

View attachment 870665
​

 

[Somero]

I still stand by my thoughts of an unfinished structure.

That small hole at the front, ground level that RR said could be a cleanout for a fireplace makes sense. I thought that the first window being farther from the corner and the rest spaced evenly could be for a chimney, but I had forgotten about the cleanout outside. Not to many newer homes here have real fireplaces anymore.

While there is a little unevenness at the top of the wall, I still think that a roof collapse would have caused more damage above the windows. Adobe is very susceptible to lateral thrust and Don Jose is correct, some type of buttress would help alleviate this along with thicker walls. Since this appears to be a small structure and if you scale it out, the walls would be less than 3 feet thick and it has no type of buttress in place.

The area above the windows being much shorter would be the weakest point in the wall for lateral thrust damage from rafters falling in and the weight pushing outward, even with a beam running along the top of the wall. I've even seen this in new construction, if a wall is not properly braced the weight of the roof forces the wall to bow outward, the farther from a structural corner, the more it can lean out.

Last thoughts, the windows do not have shutters. The angle of the shadows and the position of the photographer (or painter if you prefer) and the thickness of the walls, give that appearance they are shuttered inside.

Also would a "mission" have a fireplace in the corner of such a small "chapel"?

Just my opinion for what it's worth.

 

[Hal Croves]

Somero,
Yes, you are correct. In the enlarged image, the back wall is clearly visible through the four right side windows. No shutters, and 100% not a painting.
Since I am only familiar with a very specific part of the Superstitions, can ANYONE tell us more about the mountains behind the structure? This building seems to be built right alongside a massive boulder... to the left.

 

[Not Peralta]

hello everyone,had a great vacation,lots of rain,but made for good sleeping, and relaxing, Im back.

 

[Not Peralta]

I have been gone to long ,time to get back to the subject,np

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

if the photo is that old just think how old the structure was when it was taken ? 100-180 years older then the yr of the photo ?

 

[Not Peralta]

H-2 Charlie, This is a good time to go back to the photo. At least most agree that it IS a photo. The "others" will never be convinced for their own reasons.

Bob Ward wrote on page 59 & 60 of his book:
"Upon a hill east of the old Burns Ranch is the remains of an old mission. I had seen pictures of it from Bob Gorman when he and a few others were digging it up back in the thirties thinking there may be a treasure or two. Nothing was ever found. On the old maps made, the ruins were labeled just that, old ruins. However, old man Burns had gold and no one really knew where it came from. One day I was down at the well and was stacking rocks to heat water because Bambi was going to do our wash. One of the rocks I picked up had markings on it. The markings indicated the old mission and from what the marks indicated was something buried near at hand. The line on the rock started from the mission showed it curve downhill and a dot represented the buried cache. I really haven't put any time to it. Maybe it was what old man Burns was getting his gold from. A good metal detector might pick it up. On the stone was the one word "DIOS" which means God,---without malice, without plan, hap-hazard, at random. So it could be a treasure that belonged to the mission "Gods" and it could have been buried "at random" meaning without great care, hurriedly."

Above, I'm sure that Bob meant to say Bob Garman.



This rock clearly shows a mission symbol. The question is: If there was no mission, why was there a rock found near Bob Ward's cabin showing a mission symbol?
Why is it so important to some people that the mission didn't exist? np

 

[markmar]

NP

The dot is only 25 meters from the mission . Except if the word " DIOS " is an anagram which include distance and orientation .

 

[Somero]

On the stone was the one word "DIOS" which means God,---without malice, without plan, hap-hazard, at random. So it could be a treasure that belonged to the mission "Gods" and it could have been buried "at random" meaning without great care, hurriedly."


This rock clearly shows a mission symbol. The question is: If there was no mission, why was there a rock found near Bob Ward's cabin showing a mission symbol?
Why is it so important to some people that the mission didn't exist? np

Not sure where the other interpretations of Dios come from, as far as I know it means GOD.

Perhaps somebody got bored and carved that rock and planted it for Bob to find, who knows Bob may have done it for his book Not questioning the mans integrity just the facts provided in a book, sometimes writers like to "embellish" things for the story.

How can you base a "mission" location on a rock in a picture from a book, is there no other evidence to back up this claim other than the disputed small unfinished structure in your picture?

 

[Not Peralta]

somero, perhaps someone got bored and carved the stone tablets perhaps someone got bored and madae up the Dutchman legend,maybe you are attacking the integrity of someone with so much time in the mnts,bob wrote his book before his death the rock with the carving as he stated he didn't spend any time on it, maybe everyone that ever wrote anything about the supes should be disregarded,you are attacking someones integrity to match what fits for you,you should have more respect for someone who spent so much time in the supes,just like bob corbin said,"bob ward is a true man of the superstitions,he knows the legends of the superstitions and has probably walked more of the mountains than anyone alive", and WHO are you to think you can challenge this mans word or integrity .np

 

[Not Peralta]

well now that were beyond that,lets have a nice day,np

 

[walkerihc]

well now that were beyond that,lets have a nice day,np

Could you and bradW start a conversation...could be of interest to all....sorry....am new to respond .....just tired of the crap..that's why no more DUSA

 

[lgadbois]

I had previously posted that the Jesuits built no missions north of the Gila River. The reason why is this: The area north of the Gila was assigned to the Franciscans. The building is too large for a visita. It may have been built by the Franciscans as a warehouse. Most of the missions are built with the entrance to the south and the front of the church to the north. Perhaps the building was started and never finished.

 

[Not Peralta]

H-2 Charlie, This is a good time to go back to the photo. At least most agree that it IS a photo. The "others" will never be convinced for their own reasons.

Bob Ward wrote on page 59 & 60 of his book:
"Upon a hill east of the old Burns Ranch is the remains of an old mission. I had seen pictures of it from Bob Gorman when he and a few others were digging it up back in the thirties thinking there may be a treasure or two. Nothing was ever found. On the old maps made, the ruins were labeled just that, old ruins. However, old man Burns had gold and no one really knew where it came from. One day I was down at the well and was stacking rocks to heat water because Bambi was going to do our wash. One of the rocks I picked up had markings on it. The markings indicated the old mission and from what the marks indicated was something buried near at hand. The line on the rock started from the mission showed it curve downhill and a dot represented the buried cache. I really haven't put any time to it. Maybe it was what old man Burns was getting his gold from. A good metal detector might pick it up. On the stone was the one word "DIOS" which means God,---without malice, without plan, hap-hazard, at random. So it could be a treasure that belonged to the mission "Gods" and it could have been buried "at random" meaning without great care, hurriedly."

Above, I'm sure that Bob meant to say Bob Garman.

View attachment 871320

This rock clearly shows a mission symbol. The question is: If there was no mission, why was there a rock found near Bob Ward's cabin showing a mission symbol?
Why is it so important to some people that the mission didn't exist? np

this is clearly a mission sign on the rock.np

 

[cactusjumper]

Can anyone say who put the marks on the rock? What happened to the rock?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Roger Mn.]

This guy seems to know. Watch the whole thing.