Do the Stone Tablets lead to somewhere OTHER than the Superstition Mtns?

[markmar]

NP

I believe the bulls are Indian warriors , because they consider the bull sacred animal and sometimes they use a bull head dress in their fights . Like this Indian Wearing a Buffalo Head Dress

 

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[pippinwhitepaws]

natives in this portion of the world did not dress like that...


Edward S. Curtis's The North American Indian

 

[Cubfan64]

natives in this portion of the world did not dress like that...
View attachment 846021

Edward S. Curtis's The North American Indian

Agreed - that wouldn't have been typical AT ALL of Native Americans in the Superstition area as far as I know.

 

[coazon de oro]

natives in this portion of the world did not dress like that...
View attachment 846021

Edward S. Curtis's The North American Indian

NP, excuse me for being off topic here, but as this picture came up, I wonder how many crosses found in the mountains may have actually been made by Native Indians?

Homar

 

[Not Peralta]

coazon de oro, that is a good question, i have been to many apache ceremonies , older and newer, the dancers always are very decorated , but a lot of the spiritual beliefs of the apaches and healings are created in the dances, the bulls on the tablet standing up look like long horn cattle from texas or Egypt,np

 

[boulderidge]

I just saw a show about the stones. my first thought about them when I saw them was different then the owner of the stones. he felt that the salt river made the line across the top indicating a top over view to make the map. is it possible that the map is more of a 3D view of maybe a ridge or a mountian top outline? and the person holding the stones reading the map would stand at another ridge looking at this point?. it would seem more feisable to me. if I am off topic I am sorry. to get back on topic ill say I think the superstition mountain are the right place and the Dutchman disposed of the tablets when he killed the 3 brothers because he knew the mine location already, maybe that was the site the 3 brothers were killed. of corse I made the last part up and I don't know but what does everyone else think

 

[Not Peralta]

boulderidge, the important thing is, your thinking about an adventure with the stone tablets, either physically or mentally, It's good for any one to see beyond the normal, and to share your thoughts, lots of luck in your research.np

 

[Not Peralta]

markmar, temp today 113,np

 

[393stroker]

What`s the humidity? Chuck from Houston

 

[Not Peralta]

393stroker, 15% and the dew point was 45 degrees...it takes over for the monsoons.np

 

[393stroker]

Right now in Houston the humidity is 87%, you can swipe a knife through the air and see the line left behind for a second. When I get home after work I`m soaked in sweat like I just climbed out of water.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

markmar wrote :

"I believe the bulls are indian warriors, because they consider the bull sacred animal and sometimes they use a bull head dress in their fights. Like this Indian Wearing a Buffalo Head Dress."

Now I am no expert in the matter but have to say markmar is correct. The horned head dress as seen in the photo markmar posted is (was) used in a very important and sacred Apache warrior ceremony although the indian in markmars photo is not Apache. However, the Apache of old, the traditionl Apache, used this head dress in their ceremony that included much chidin-biyi and was was very sacred and important to the Apache warrior. This ceremony has all but died out among the modern day Apache except for a precious few who continue to follow the old traditional way.


Photo of Geronimo wearing the sacred horned head dress. Geronimo was a Chiricahua (Bedonkohe) Apache


photo of a Mescalero Apache (Southern Tonto) wearing the ceremonial horned head dress.

Matthew Roberts

 

[Not Peralta]

matthew Roberts , thank you for that information, who do you think the sheep or lambs were, got any thoughts.np

 

[markmar]

NP

Lamb: symbol of Christ as the Paschal Lamb and also a symbol for Christians (as Christ is our Shepherd and Peter was told to feed His sheep). The lamb is also a symbol for St. Agnes (Feast Day 21 January), virgin martyr of the early Church.
Christian Symbols and their descriptions

PS
Also the Cross which is carved on the Tucson artifacts have this explanation

Patriarchal Cross

The symbol, often referred to as the patriarchal cross, appeared in the Byzantine Empire in large numbers in the 9th century. In the Byzantine Empire of the 9th century, the double cross was not a religious, but a political symbol used by Byzantine clerks and missionaries.
http://www.ancient-symbols.com/religious_symbols.html

And for the Celtic Cross which is symbol of one of the Tucson artifacts you can read here
http://www.ancient-symbols.com/celtic_symbols.html

 

[Matthew Roberts]

matthew Roberts , thank you for that information, who do you think the sheep or lambs were, got any thoughts.np

NP,

I would not hazard a guess as I am not that knowledgeable about the accounts and events surrounding the topic. However I do enjoy listening to those who do have ideas, theories and information on the subject. I'm not saying that I endorse or disbelieve markmar's take on things, I just noticed his ideas about the horned bull being indian did have some basis in Superstition mountain native (Apache) indian culture.

Matthew

 

[Cubfan64]

markmar wrote :

"I believe the bulls are indian warriors, because they consider the bull sacred animal and sometimes they use a bull head dress in their fights. Like this Indian Wearing a Buffalo Head Dress."

Now I am no expert in the matter but have to say markmar is correct. The horned head dress as seen in the photo markmar posted is (was) used in a very important and sacred Apache warrior ceremony although the indian in markmars photo is not Apache. However, the Apache of old, the traditionl Apache, used this head dress in their ceremony that included much chidin-biyi and was was very sacred and important to the Apache warrior. This ceremony has all but died out among the modern day Apache except for a precious few who continue to follow the old traditional way.

View attachment 847065
Photo of Geronimo wearing the sacred horned head dress. Geronimo was a Chiricahua (Bedonkohe) Apache

View attachment 847066
photo of a Mescalero Apache (Southern Tonto) wearing the ceremonial horned head dress.

Matthew Roberts

I stand corrected - I would never have guessed that the Native Americans in the Superstitions area used horns such as bull or bison horns in any way.

 

[Not Peralta]

markmar, I had written about the cross in my thread, Its also on the Tucson artifacts,Its also on the maps,with other symbols , there is another symbol that accompanies the cross, these symbols can be found at west boulder canyon, and freemont saddle, they can also be found on horse mesa, and also in the spirit mnts area,np

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Cubfan64,

The Gan and mountain spirit culture of the Apache and the wearing of the cross and fan head dress is well known to almost everyone. But there is another aspect of Apache culture many are not aware of. Often because people are unaware of it, they deny it even exists. But it is real and fascinating. The horned head dress and the ceremony that goes with it is just part of that hidden culture. When the Apache were forced on the reservations these practices were strongly discouraged, first by the government and military, later by the churches. Only a few Apache still practice some of the old traditional ways and they are discouraged by not only the government but by many of the Apache themselves. This creates a conflict and two seperate groups on the reservations, the modern Apache and the traditionalists. Nowhere is it more evident than on San Carlos.

If you make it to the Rendezvous this year I will explain a little about the ceremony with the horned head dress, it is both fascinating and disturbing to be sure. Maybe we will have time to take that ride over to San Carlos you talked about and you can meet someone who knows all about the old ways.

Matthew

 

[starman 1]

oh well

 

[Not Peralta]

The game is worth the candle and we will play it to the end. np