Do the Stone Tablets lead to somewhere OTHER than the Superstition Mtns?

[Not Peralta]

Somehiker how about the three crooked crosses with the stars in a circle. np

 

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[somehiker]

What about them ?

Are two white and one black like the three in a photo I posted awhile back ?

 

[Not Peralta]

What about them ?

Are two white and one black like the three in a photo I posted awhile back ?

no. they are on one rock with a directional marker, I thought you knew about it , sorry, np

 

[somehiker]

Ok...must be somewhere else.
Which is good.

 

[Oroblanco]

Somehiker wrote

What makes you so sure they didn't ?

I do not see those marks as undeniably Four Peaks and Weavers Needle; if they are, then we have the scale of the map and the correct way to align it for the cardinal points. As those two landmarks are some (roughly) 17.5 miles apart, and the "end point" of the treasure trail is shown on the Four Peaks side, wouldn't that put it outside of the Wilderness Area and on the North side of the Salt river? But the symbol for Four Peaks as you indicate, may be a stream, and the stream which would then be the Salt river, might be a mountain range, it is just not a sure and certain thing. No offense, I just don't find that all that convincing.

If the Peralta stone maps really go to the Superstitions, why then do we have SO many different solutions proposed, and all in different spots?

 

[Not Peralta]

Oroblanco, I agree100%, BUT, there is a' key' , BUT, according to a lot of people that you want to discuss this with they are all set in there ways, and every time you end up starting to have a good discussion some one in some way destroys it, I have given many good clues to a lot of unknowns , and when I see that no one has responded to any of them, I figure whats the use. np ps. I am sorry , I am not the only one on here that has given very good information. I know this because I recognize it and what their saying. np

 

[deducer]

deducer: "SANTAFE" as a state of mind or spirituality would be an asset to said end user.
Even more so to those who instructed the followers in a land where so many had became martyrs.

Especially critical to their enterprise, reaching far into harsh country with hostile elements.

In other words, an act of "Santafe."

 

[deducer]

If the Peralta stone maps really go to the Superstitions, why then do we have SO many different solutions proposed, and all in different spots?

Roy,

The answer for me is very simple, I only pay attention to solutions proposed by those who have actually put foot to ground. When you use this criteria, the number of solutions to consider is cut down pretty drastically.

And if I may ask, what makes you think the Peraltas are in any way, involved?

 

[somehiker]

Somehiker wrote


I do not see those marks as undeniably Four Peaks and Weavers Needle; if they are, then we have the scale of the map and the correct way to align it for the cardinal points. As those two landmarks are some (roughly) 17.5 miles apart, and the "end point" of the treasure trail is shown on the Four Peaks side, wouldn't that put it outside of the Wilderness Area and on the North side of the Salt river? But the symbol for Four Peaks as you indicate, may be a stream, and the stream which would then be the Salt river, might be a mountain range, it is just not a sure and certain thing. No offense, I just don't find that all that convincing.

If the Peralta stone maps really go to the Superstitions, why then do we have SO many different solutions proposed, and all in different spots?

Deniability is within the eye and mind of the beholder I guess. Well within the scope of this topic, as well as the basis for so many different solutions..
Although Not and yourself and a few others do not believe the stones apply to the Sups, the majority of those who have worked with the maps in the mountains, and have published their "solutions", do. A few have also identified areas outside the Wilderness Area within their theories as well, which does seem possible since the designation is a modern convenience post dating the discovery of the stones themselves. While the two landmarks, Four Peaks and Weavers Needle, may indeed be some 17.5 miles apart, they are both visible and prominent from points along the line I illustrated on the Heart photo. At certain high points along this line both are visible. At other points only one may be within the field of view. I merely offer my own thoughts as to the crux of your question.
I haven't invested any time in trying to assign a scale to the maps, and with the "end of the trail" so clearly being indicated as the intersect point along this line, I would think that to follow the trail to that point would be better than trying to scale to out to fit a 20th century topo.

 

[Springfield]

...
springfield: "Protect location by creating diversionary tactics"
- such as making "mistakes" easily recognizable and understandable only to the intended end user ? -...

The sky's the limit. Human behavior is quite predictable.

 

[somehiker]

The sky's the limit. Human behavior is quite predictable.

For some perhaps.
For others, not so much.
The sky was once the limit....a prediction that turned out wrong..

 

[Not Peralta]

There is absolutely nothing on the stone tablets that say peralta, or superstition mnts. no matter how much people want to associate these stone tablets to the superstitions it has not worked for you.
and like I said ,there is a key to every maping system, if something has not worked, shouldn't you try something else. every since these maps were found, new petroglyphs have appeared and so have
other stone markers ,and because someone associated Spanish to these tablets new Spanish markers and petroglyphs keep popping up, HOW MUCH CAN A MNT BE DECORATED, WITH PEOPLES FOOLISH
GAMES, REALITY PEOPLE, I HAVE NEVER IN MY LIFE SEEN SO MANY EXPERTS THAT CANT PUT 2+2 TOGETHER. HENCE THE NAME NOT PERALTA. NP ps I am having my morning

 

[somehiker]

Nothing that says Waltz or anything in German. Nothing that says Spirit Mountain or Peralta or mine/mina. But there are other maps around that do.
I've been saying for years that the stones did not originate with the Peraltas or the LDM. Or show the way to Peralta/Dutchman gold. So I'm satisfied to see you are in agreement on these fallacies.
Yes, there is a key. More than one IMO. It's as easy as putting 1,8,4,and 7 together.
For you, NP, it leads to Spirit Mountain. For me... somewhere else.

 

[Oroblanco]

Long reply, extra coffee alert

Deducer wrote

Roy,

The answer for me is very simple, I only pay attention to solutions proposed by those who have actually put foot to ground. When you use this criteria, the number of solutions to consider is cut down pretty drastically.

And if I may ask, what makes you think the Peraltas are in any way, involved?

Well, is it not also the case that those whom have put boots on the ground in the Superstitions, had already decided to look THERE for proof to fit with the stone maps? The Dillmans ended up in Utah, put their boots on the ground and found 'markers' to fit their interpretation of the stone maps as well. While I too have much more respect for anyone that puts their boots on the ground to prove up their belief(s), do they not do so, because it is their belief? Who would go afoot exploring based on having NO idea where the maps must fit? I don't like to see someone posting a solution whom has never set foot in the area, and wants someone else to do the legwork. It may be perfectly OK, but there are people that like to send others on wild goose chases too.

I do not think the Peraltas are involved; that however has been the common name used to identify the stones for many years, and I am a creature of habit; just as I insist on spelling Montezuma that way instead of the modern revisionist Moctezuma. I have to agree with Somehiker too, there is nothing specifically Peralta on the stones, nothing Waltz,nothing Jesuit, we treasure hunters have been making assumptions about the stones and often without a solid foundation to do so. The only geographic "tie" referred to is Santa Fe, not even on the two trail maps at all, and which is in New Mexico! Yet how many of us are even willing to consider that possibility?

Somehiker - that scale makes the two map stones (Heart and Trail) cover about 55 x 45 miles, and that is just a rough guess-timate on my part, the dagger points west and the arrow north which is a fairly logical conclusion but not indisputable, and at that scale, many of the landmarks outside of the two (Weavers Needle & Four Peaks) either do not correspond to anything or are far off in scale; the only notable stream in a general N-S orientation to fit would be the Colorado river, and it does not run truly N-S plus is considerably farther away than the less than forty miles shown, and there is no river to correspond to the east at all. I am a little surprised that you have not spent more time on working out the scale of the maps, I would have thought that to be a very important key to understand them. Unless you believe that they are not drawn to scale? If they are not drawn to scale, it would explain many otherwise puzzling aspects, however it would also tend to throw many theories on them out the window, including that they will fit the 1902 Florence topo map. The fit then would be sheer coincidence, as unlikely as that seems it is not so improbable, as we have seen with the many different solutions proposed and fitting the stone maps to many different areas. The stone maps are simply "generic" enough that they can be fitted to many areas.

Not Peralta - while it may appear that we agree on many points, I am far from convinced that the stone maps really lead to Spirit mountain either. I have never hiked Spirit mountain so have little knowledge about it, yet the most convincing proof of any proposed solution to the stone maps is still when someone finds a treasure or treasures, or rich mine of some kind, which would be a rather strong argument. I have not seen you post any kind of treasure(s) found by your solution, same as with many of these solution theories.

While my interest in the Peralta stones has waned, I still would like to see someone able to think outside the box, a new approach perhaps, less dependent on satellite imagery as I am fairly confident that the maker<s> of the maps had no such ability nor likely prophesied the technology. If the maps are centuries old, then maps corresponding to that time period should be the main basis for locating and matching them, not a modern USGS topo or Google Earth photo. The maps include what appears to be a mission of some kind too, and I would expect that a known, documented mission ought to be found that will match in the solution to these stone enigmas. If on the other hand, modern USGS topos are the exact match, as with Cactusjumper's solution, or satellite photos as with Kemm's, then the stones are almost certainy modern and the likelihood of fraudulent purpose is greatly increased, yet even so, could lead to a real treasure worth millions.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, thank you for your thought-provoking replies, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. And please give me a poke to let me know, as I really would like to see someone find treasure.
Oroblanco

 

[somehiker]

"Somehiker - that scale makes the two map stones (Heart and Trail) cover about 55 x 45 miles, and that is just a rough guess-timate on my part, the dagger points west and the arrow north which is a fairly logical conclusion but not indisputable, and at that scale, many of the landmarks outside of the two (Weavers Needle & Four Peaks) either do not correspond to anything or are far off in scale; the only notable stream in a general N-S orientation to fit would be the Colorado river, and it does not run truly N-S plus is considerably farther away than the less than forty miles shown, and there is no river to correspond to the east at all. I am a little surprised that you have not spent more time on working out the scale of the maps, I would have thought that to be a very important key to understand them. Unless you believe that they are not drawn to scale? If they are not drawn to scale, it would explain many otherwise puzzling aspects, however it would also tend to throw many theories on them out the window, including that they will fit the 1902 Florence topo map. The fit then would be sheer coincidence, as unlikely as that seems it is not so improbable, as we have seen with the many different solutions proposed and fitting the stone maps to many different areas. The stone maps are simply "generic" enough that they can be fitted to many areas."

Going with what I have seen in the area I am working on, the stones represent perspective views, rather than top down.
Which makes both topos and sat views such as GE next to useless. Each is a view from a certain vantage point, some high and some lower down.
Only the two "trail" stones have the same "scale" in the sense that such a view can be scaled. But even on those two, some of the markings are larger than life, likely due to their relative importance.

 

[sgtfda]

Roy the dagger points north on the trail map. The R is one of the keys and it does not stand for Roy or river. I've just located another key marker. Everyone has their theory on the maps. I'm finding gold with my theory and not a few specks. So my theory gets me what I want. I hope one day everyone gets something they seek. Great maps that lead to what everyone wants!

 

[deducer]

Frank, do you think the D on the dagger stands for Deducer?

 

[deducer]

Deducer wrote


Well, is it not also the case that those whom have put boots on the ground in the Superstitions, had already decided to look THERE for proof to fit with the stone maps? The Dillmans ended up in Utah, put their boots on the ground and found 'markers' to fit their interpretation of the stone maps as well. While I too have much more respect for anyone that puts their boots on the ground to prove up their belief(s), do they not do so, because it is their belief? Who would go afoot exploring based on having NO idea where the maps must fit? I don't like to see someone posting a solution whom has never set foot in the area, and wants someone else to do the legwork. It may be perfectly OK, but there are people that like to send others on wild goose chases too.

I do not think the Peraltas are involved; that however has been the common name used to identify the stones for many years, and I am a creature of habit; just as I insist on spelling Montezuma that way instead of the modern revisionist Moctezuma. I have to agree with Somehiker too, there is nothing specifically Peralta on the stones, nothing Waltz,nothing Jesuit, we treasure hunters have been making assumptions about the stones and often without a solid foundation to do so. The only geographic "tie" referred to is Santa Fe, not even on the two trail maps at all, and which is in New Mexico! Yet how many of us are even willing to consider that possibility?

Wouldn’t it be logical to look in the Supes considering all the discoveries were made there? The Stone Maps were found below QC, the stone crosses on the SE corner of Tortilla, and the CP paper not far from there. There have been non-GE solutions presented forth in this forum and others, and it is to those that I have paid careful attention. Those who peruse threads in a thorough manner, especially in the archive, will not be disappointed.

At one time, I too referred to the Stone Maps as the PSMs because everyone else did so, but when I did more research, I came to the conclusion that the Peraltas had nothing to do with it, and so began to refer to them only as the Stone Maps. As to the question of authorship, I will use the H/P stone as an example and ask you to ponder the fact that there is a speaking horse on one side, and a priest with no legs on the other, speaking of going 18 places which is a paradox. Who would go to such extent as to engage in both paradoxical abstract and anthropomorphic design when designing a treasure map? Would this not suggest an author with advanced faculties? I want to point out that neither DeGrazia or Tumlinson created art that had abstract, paradoxical or anthropomorphic aspects to them. When considering means, motive, and ability as far as the Stone Maps, only one party passes the test, and to me, does so very convincingly.

And as far as 'SANTAFE,' when one considers the placement and context of the word wherever it has been used (SM, the descriptive cross, and the CP) in addition to very peculiar and slight features present in the word itself, only apparent upon close examination, one realizes that the word does not refer to Santa Fe, NM.

 

[cactusjumper]

deducer,

It's also possible that the Stone Maps were made by a group of people. (Two or more)

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[somehiker]

Joe:

Would anyone belonging to this group of two or more have been accused of heresy ?
Knowing the path they had charted was dangerous in that regard.
Whereby upon conviction, they might be forced to wear a Sanbenito ?





Regards:Wayne