Do the Stone Tablets lead to somewhere OTHER than the Superstition Mtns?

[deducer]

Howdy Mike, and deducer,

A lot of things were created after the PSM's surfaced. Some can't help but to be copycats, others want to be recognized for finding something, it's in their ego, while others try to throw fellow searchers off. Anyone can put a false date on anything, if you are open minded, you will understand this with no trouble.

Of course the crosses fit perfectly, and so does the Latin Heart, why, because they had the PSM's to go by. They even copied the same symbols without even knowing what they represent. The way they are on the crosses they lead nowhere. This reminds me of the joke where a dog sending a telegram of a series of barks is told that for the same price he could add another bark or two, and the dog tells the clerk, "but then it won't make any sense will it?"

To begin with, the stone crosses, and the Latin Heart were created by someone who believed the PSM's are Jesuit made. I have stated before that there is nothing Jesuit about them, they lead to a mine, it is etched in stone. Over the years I have shown this to a chosen few. Then these crosses, and Latin Heart were conveniently found by the person with the ego, with nothing to go by.

Once again, you have to be fluent in Spanish to see that the crossed are "Gringo" made. Both sentences on the cross have the gender wrong. Even an idiot who is fluent in Spanish will get the gender right, even if he may misspell some words. Mike, I have been with you on this before, the phrase they picked, is everywhere,"El Tesoro De La Iglesia De La Santa Fe" does not refer to physical treasure, but to eternal life thru Jesus Christ.

The maker of the Latin Heart did not know enough Latin, so he just picked words out of a dictionary, and in my opinion is the one who destroyed it. If it had been real, something that precious would not have been destroyed. "Actions speak louder than words" - Gollom

There are many who swear they have found things with the stone crosses, and the Latin Heart, and there are those who believe them, but they are only fooling themselves.

Homar

Homar,

You have previously maintained that you believe that the heart stone is authentic and a part of "four maps."

I would like to ask you this question: when you place the heart stone in the heart cavity on the upper trail map, why doesn't it fill up the cavity?

However, when you place the Latin Heart in the cavity along with the heart stone, (per Bill Hidden) the cavity is full. Why is this so?

In regard to the Stone Crosses, the reason I bring up the cursum perficio is because contrary to what many people think, the Stone Maps were not the first things found.

The cursum perficio drawing/rock was, in fact, the first of this kind of discovery (as far as the Stone Maps go) as it occured in the early 1900's by Abe Reid who was a retired school teacher.

And as we know, there is a phrase on one of the Stone Crosses that also appears in the cursum perficio.

 

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[gollum]

Howdy Mike, and deducer,

A lot of things were created after the PSM's surfaced. Some can't help but to be copycats, others want to be recognized for finding something, it's in their ego, while others try to throw fellow searchers off. Anyone can put a false date on anything, if you are open minded, you will understand this with no trouble.

Of course the crosses fit perfectly, and so does the Latin Heart, why, because they had the PSM's to go by. They even copied the same symbols without even knowing what they represent. The way they are on the crosses they lead nowhere. This reminds me of the joke where a dog sending a telegram of a series of barks is told that for the same price he could add another bark or two, and the dog tells the clerk, "but then it won't make any sense will it?"

To begin with, the stone crosses, and the Latin Heart were created by someone who believed the PSM's are Jesuit made. I have stated before that there is nothing Jesuit about them, they lead to a mine, it is etched in stone. Over the years I have shown this to a chosen few. Then these crosses, and Latin Heart were conveniently found by the person with the ego, with nothing to go by.

Once again, you have to be fluent in Spanish to see that the crossed are "Gringo" made. Both sentences on the cross have the gender wrong. Even an idiot who is fluent in Spanish will get the gender right, even if he may misspell some words. Mike, I have been with you on this before, the phrase they picked, is everywhere,"El Tesoro De La Iglesia De La Santa Fe" does not refer to physical treasure, but to eternal life thru Jesus Christ.

The maker of the Latin Heart did not know enough Latin, so he just picked words out of a dictionary, and in my opinion is the one who destroyed it. If it had been real, something that precious would not have been destroyed. "Actions speak louder than words" - Gollom

There are many who swear they have found things with the stone crosses, and the Latin Heart, and there are those who believe them, but they are only fooling themselves.

Homar

Homar,

I think you may be lacking a little bit of history. Michael Bilbrey found the Stone Crosses in 1978. At that time, nobody except previous owners and Mining and Minerals Museum Employees could get near the Stone Maps. I don't even think they were on display then. I could be wrong though. Maybe someone that lived in the area at the time can shed a little more light on the subject.

You also assume that the gentleman that found and owned the Latin Heart destroyed it (based on the story). If you know the story, you know that a person had threatened his life if he didn't give this man the Heart. You don't think it is possible that he only said he destroyed the heart to get this other guy off his back? Bilbrey also said he destroyed the stone crosses when his credibility was questioned. Maybe he just got tired of people bugging him about his crosses and SAID he had destroyed them? How do you know that the original Latin Heart and Stone Crosses are not still extant and in private collections?

See Homar, you quoted my age old saying "Look at people's actions, not what they say." You were right to quote me, but you used it incorrectly!

The Latin Heart finder/owner SAID he destroyed it, but he continued to use the information from it to search the Superstitions.

Michael Bilbrey used the information from the Stone Crosses to try and solve the Stone Maps for a long time before he tried to sell them.

See what I mean? Bilbrey and Latin Heart Owner SAID they destroyed their items, but both continued to use that information to solve the Stone Maps.

SAID- "Don't pay attention to what people say"............

used that information to search- "watch their actions!"

Mike

 

[markmar]

Hi all

I believe the Latin stone heart and the stone Crosses are part of the other PSM .
First , the dots in the horse map are in the same disposition like the mines in the Latin heart ( if you consider the " moneta " a part of a mine , which is very possible ) . The latin heart ( reversed )helps to locate the " golden cave " with the description of the terrain close by . Warning you to see the ' triangle ' which point the cave and is recognized in the stone heart . In the region of latin heart is the priest shape . The landmarks in the green circle are in the pries landmark neck .




The priest shape ( rocks formation ) could be seen from the across hill . The cross which holds the priest in the map , shows where is the cave in relation with the priest landmark and if you look better ,you can see how is in the same region with the " triangle "which point the cave . one cross is a larger map to reach the heart and the other is that which holds the priest .




These are the some ralations between Latin heart and stone crosses with the others PSM .

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

You have previously maintained that you believe that the heart stone is authentic and a part of "four maps."

I would like to ask you this question: when you place the heart stone in the heart cavity on the upper trail map, why doesn't it fill up the cavity?

However, when you place the Latin Heart in the cavity along with the heart stone, (per Bill Hidden) the cavity is full. Why is this so?

In regard to the Stone Crosses, the reason I bring up the cursum perficio is because contrary to what many people think, the Stone Maps were not the first things found.

The cursum perficio drawing/rock was, in fact, the first of this kind of discovery (as far as the Stone Maps go) as it occured in the early 1900's by Abe Reid who was a retired school teacher.

And as we know, there is a phrase on one of the Stone Crosses that also appears in the cursum perficio.

Howdy deducer,

The Heart Stone was found together with the trail stones in the same hole that the Priest/Horse stone was found a year before. It is pictured inserted in the top trail stone in the car bumper picture taken right after their discovery. The fit is irrelevant when they were found together, and the trails match.

The Latin Heart came after the PSM's had been on display for anyone to make a perfect fit.

You are correct in that the PSM's were not the first things found. The symbols on the PSM's have been copied before, and after their discovery. You will have to find this on your own. Is it not strange that Abe R. found a rock that no one else has found, and also found the book with the same drawing in the mountains? What are the odds?

I have given you the reason the crosses are fake, the maker stole that phrase from Abe's "find", or elsewhere.

Homar

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

I think you may be lacking a little bit of history. Michael Bilbrey found the Stone Crosses in 1978. At that time, nobody except previous owners and Mining and Minerals Museum Employees could get near the Stone Maps. I don't even think they were on display then. I could be wrong though. Maybe someone that lived in the area at the time can shed a little more light on the subject.

You also assume that the gentleman that found and owned the Latin Heart destroyed it (based on the story). If you know the story, you know that a person had threatened his life if he didn't give this man the Heart. You don't think it is possible that he only said he destroyed the heart to get this other guy off his back? Bilbrey also said he destroyed the stone crosses when his credibility was questioned. Maybe he just got tired of people bugging him about his crosses and SAID he had destroyed them? How do you know that the original Latin Heart and Stone Crosses are not still extant and in private collections?

See Homar, you quoted my age old saying "Look at people's actions, not what they say." You were right to quote me, but you used it incorrectly!

The Latin Heart finder/owner SAID he destroyed it, but he continued to use the information from it to search the Superstitions.

Michael Bilbrey used the information from the Stone Crosses to try and solve the Stone Maps for a long time before he tried to sell them.

See what I mean? Bilbrey and Latin Heart Owner SAID they destroyed their items, but both continued to use that information to solve the Stone Maps.

SAID- "Don't pay attention to what people say"............

used that information to search- "watch their actions!"

Mike

Howdy Mike,

The Arizona Mineral Museum, as I understand had the PSM's which were still the property of the A.L. Flagg Foundation, and since 1971 were allowing any member to view them without the tapes, and allowed to take pictures for at least two hours. I don't know if M.B. was a member or not, but people has access to them way before 1978.

I went by memory trying to quote you, shorter version, but yes it reveals a lot. What I have shown you will be dismissed by the most open minded, because of the fit, or any other little detail that they can come up with, or because according to them, they found something following the crosses, and Latin Heart. None of these small details, or presumed finds matter when they are fake. Take a car with a dead battery for example, it doesn't matter if you clean the spark plugs, or put gas in it, or air up a low tire, it still won't start. All the other details become irrelevant.

The crosses are "Gringo made", to look like Jesuit, or Spanish made, but they failed with their lack understanding of gender in the Spanish language. It doesn't get more clearer than that, but you have to be fluent to really see it I guess.

Homar

 

[gollum]

Howdy deducer,

The Heart Stone was found together with the trail stones in the same hole that the Priest/Horse stone was found a year before. It is pictured inserted in the top trail stone in the car bumper picture taken right after their discovery. The fit is irrelevant when they were found together, and the trails match.

The Latin Heart came after the PSM's had been on display for anyone to make a perfect fit.

You are correct in that the PSM's were not the first things found. The symbols on the PSM's have been copied before, and after their discovery. You will have to find this on your own. Is it not strange that Abe R. found a rock that no one else has found, and also found the book with the same drawing in the mountains? What are the odds?

I have given you the reason the crosses are fake, the maker stole that phrase from Abe's "find", or elsewhere.

Homar

Homar,

Like I said, you are most certainly welcome to your theory. I don't think the Stone Maps were on display for all to see and handle in 1978. I may be wrong. I just emailed someone that would know if they were easily accessible to the public before 1980. I will post his reply.

Mike

 

[gollum]

Joe,

I wanted to give your post its very own reply.

There is no denying that Michael Bilbrey was tied into some very unsavory things. You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. You might look at that baby with more skepticism than you normally would, but you don't just throw it out.

Jim Hatt said that Greg Davis told him that Estee Conatser personally told him she took the Stone Crosses to UCLA, and their opinion was that they were not a modern hoax. So, you can either say that Jim was lying to everybody, Estee Conatser was lying to Greg, or that Greg lied to Jim, UCLA lied to Estee, or that you don't care what the opinion of the people at UCLA was. Those are the only alternatives.

Just like the FBI Agent personally told Bob Corbin that the FBI Lab had examined the Stone Maps and it was their opinion that they were over 100 years old. Since that is exactly what Bob Corbin told me, you have the same choices: I lied about what Bob said. Bob lied to me. The FBI Agent lied to Bob. You don't care what the FBI's Opinion was.

Mike

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar. Not so fast. The cross could be a pointer used on the priest stone trail. That trail starts in the 1847 heart area and travels into my one gold area. The stone cross tablet is in that trail position. The butte sign lines up perfectly. Mike your idea on placing the cross on the stone is correct. I'm going to compare the cross info to the surrounding hills. There is something other than gold there and this may point where.

Howdy Sarge,

The Superstitions are full of caves, and old shafts, you can take any map, and make it line up with anything, there are hearts everywhere. You find gold because you are a good prospector with the best of tools, and have a good dowsing partner. I bet you could take a picture of my digestive tract to the Superstitions, follow it, and find a good deposit.

Homar

 

[gollum]

Howdy Mike,

The Arizona Mineral Museum, as I understand had the PSM's which were still the property of the A.L. Flagg Foundation, and since 1971 were allowing any member to view them without the tapes, and allowed to take pictures for at least two hours. I don't know if M.B. was a member or not, but people has access to them way before 1978.

I went by memory trying to quote you, shorter version, but yes it reveals a lot. What I have shown you will be dismissed by the most open minded, because of the fit, or any other little detail that they can come up with, or because according to them, they found something following the crosses, and Latin Heart. None of these small details, or presumed finds matter when they are fake. Take a car with a dead battery for example, it doesn't matter if you clean the spark plugs, or put gas in it, or air up a low tire, it still won't start. All the other details become irrelevant.

The crosses are "Gringo made", to look like Jesuit, or Spanish made, but they failed with their lack understanding of gender in the Spanish language. It doesn't get more clearer than that, but you have to be fluent to really see it I guess.

Homar

See Homar,

Because they negate your theory, you want them to be fakes. While I agree that it is very possible they are fakes, intended to make Bilbrey some money, I also think it is just as possible they are authentic. You claim to know this for certain, but I can translate colonial Spanish Documents. I can read Chain Writing, Cortesana, Procesal, and Humanistica. I can tell what the great majority of the abbreviations are. And with all that, I can't begin to tell you how many "SCHOLARS", "Politicians", Priests, and "Scribes" severely misspell words in many official documents and letters.

I'm not trying to make you change your theories and beliefs. I am simply trying to guide people down a path in which they make decisions based on known facts, and if those facts change, be open to changing (and in some cases throwing out) their own theories. It has happened to me a few times over a variety of theories in different subjects.

ONE WORD: EVOLUTION.

Mike

 

[sgtfda]

When it's all said and done who has more fun than us.
Homar to tell the truth my friend dowsed a treasure spot and I missed the stop. On the next mountain sniffed out some gold. We never did get up to get the treasure. But that priest is pointing to it. Kinda far though to carry a shovel. Never say never though. You may miss something that pops up.
Mike your a interesting guy. You come out to Dons camp this year ill take you for a little ride.

 

[JeromeAz]

Homar,

Your statement is not necessarily true. My original story came from one or more books. My later versions came from the mouths of people that knew the Tumlinsons personally. A lot of previously unknown information came to light when Garry and I were doing a lot of serious Stone Maps Research.

Here's the thing. When Richard Peck's Investigator spoke to Travis T's very good friend. This friend said that he and Travis would sit up nights for hours trying to figure out the Stone Maps. Travis told his friend that he had added some things to the stones to throw off people idf they were ever stolen. When investigator asked what the stones looked like, he described the two trail stones and the heart. When he was asked about any others, the friend said that he never saw any others. What this could easily mean is that Travis added things to the trail and/or heart stones, and that he completely made the Horse/Priest Stone. Travis after all was an accomplished stone carver. If you choose to disbelieve, then you are absolutely free to believe anything you want.

Mike

Gollum,

You said Travis was an accomplished stone carver. How? He was a cop. When did he have time? Usually someone that is, is because they do it for a living. What else did he carve besides the stone map? If he even did.

Another thing I'm curious about, of all the people searching the area it seems strange to me that the one person that found the carved stones was from another state and as you say an accomplished stone carver. So a stone carver from another state found carved stones buried in the Arizona desert. What are the odds of that? That's got to be higher odds then hitting the lottery or getting struck by lightning. Just wondering.

 

[Not Peralta]

Anyone, a couple of questions,
during your research did you check out tomlinsons nephew from California.
did you know Robert garman and Tomlinson were best friends .
after looking at these people you might figure out why Tomlinson could never really get the story straight about how the stones were really found.? np

 

[sgtfda]

NP. Garman was friends and partners with Robert Tumlinson Robert was Travis's uncle though their age was just a few years apart. In his book Garman said Robert T was instrumental in the finding of the remainder of the Don Miguel Peralta stone maps.

 

[Not Peralta]

NP. Garman was friends and partners with Robert Tumlinson Robert was Travis's uncle though their age was just a few years apart. In his book Garman said Robert T was instrumental in the finding of the remainder of the Don Miguel Peralta stone maps.

sgtfda, very good . I didn't see anyone talk about this that's why I asked thank you.np

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

I believe you are misquoting Bob here:

"Just like the FBI Agent personally told Bob Corbin that the FBI Lab had examined the Stone Maps and it was their opinion that they were over 100 years old."

Bob and I have discussed this many times. The FBI had no interest in the Stone Maps. I specifically called Bob one night to get the straight scoop on what he had told Jim Hatt. That exchange with Jim may very well still be over on DUSA or here. Don't remember which place we discussed it.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Somero]

JeromeAZ, perhaps the question should be why did Tumlinson do stone carvings as a hobby? You may want to investigate his background a bit more. The whole story is quite interesting with lots of twists and turns, not unlike the LDM story.

My question is why were some people looking for a Jesuit treasure in the Superstitions prior to the Maps being found?

As for the stone crosses, tough call if they are real or fake. If, as stated earlier, the copies were made from photos of the originals a couple questions come to mind.

What was used to indicate the proper scale to make them and are any photos of the originals still around?

 

[sgtfda]

Travis ran a fruit camp. They made him a officer so he could control the workers camp problems. He was not a regular officer. He kept the migrants in line.
Mystery Gold of the Superstitions. By Robert L Garman. Buy it , read it copies still out there.

 

[JeromeAz]

JeromeAZ, perhaps the question should be why did Tumlinson do stone carvings as a hobby? You may want to investigate his background a bit more. The whole story is quite interesting with lots of twists and turns, not unlike the LDM story.

My question is why were some people looking for a Jesuit treasure in the Superstitions prior to the Maps being found?

As for the stone crosses, tough call if they are real or fake. If, as stated earlier, the copies were made from photos of the originals a couple questions come to mind.

What was used to indicate the proper scale to make them and are any photos of the originals still around?

An amateur artist? Doing statues, maybe a bust or small figures but stone maps? Yeah that's going to make you a bundle. I just don't see it. Possible, yes but who knows. A stone carver passing through Az in the middle of nowhere, stops his car, gets out and finds what else but carved stones. Imagine that. I don't buy it.

Why Jesuit treasure hunters? Why not? Maybe they figured if it's down south then maybe there's some up north.

Couldn't tell you on the crosses. Don't know about them.

Lived in Az all my life and I'm really into this kind of stuff. You would think I'd know a lot more about it but being in the military for 20 years didn't leave me anytime for it. That and I never believed there was a LDM. I think he was high grading the Vulture Mine then headed south telling people he got it from the Superstition Mountains. Main reason, all the years that have gone by and all the people out there searching have never found it. Maybe one day someone will prove me wrong.

Guess I need to study up. All I know right now is what you stoners put on here.

Anybody know of any books that are worth reading on the subject?

 

[Somero]

Just about finished with The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz by T.E. Glover PhD Excellent read with a great format.

 

[JeromeAz]

Travis ran a fruit camp. They made him a officer so he could control the workers camp problems. He was not a regular officer. He kept the migrants in line.
Mystery Gold of the Superstitions. By Robert L Garman. Buy it , read it copies still out there.

So he heard about the LDM story and wanting to make a profit. So he's at work in his tower watching over the workers as he's carving stone maps from maps and pics from an earlier trip through Az. He finishes them, gives them to some workers, tells them exactly where to bury them. Goes back a few years later and digs them up. Goes into town, spreads the word, eventually sells them and makes a big profit.

Am I close? If only we had time machines to go back and find out the whole story. The truth.

Thanks for the read. I'll be looking for it.