Do the Stone Tablets lead to somewhere OTHER than the Superstition Mtns?

[gollum]

Howdy Gollum,

You missed my point, which is that the original stories tend to hold more truth in them than stories that come after. I did read the update that was a result of someone's investigation on the finder. You don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Travis's wife's story only shows that she was with him on the second trip when he found the rest of the stones. Why would Travis carve new things on the Priest/Horse stone to throw people off if it was his own work? This proves that that stone is part of the rest, and also found by Travis as the first story indicates.

Homar

Homar,

Your statement is not necessarily true. My original story came from one or more books. My later versions came from the mouths of people that knew the Tumlinsons personally. A lot of previously unknown information came to light when Garry and I were doing a lot of serious Stone Maps Research.

Here's the thing. When Richard Peck's Investigator spoke to Travis T's very good friend. This friend said that he and Travis would sit up nights for hours trying to figure out the Stone Maps. Travis told his friend that he had added some things to the stones to throw off people idf they were ever stolen. When investigator asked what the stones looked like, he described the two trail stones and the heart. When he was asked about any others, the friend said that he never saw any others. What this could easily mean is that Travis added things to the trail and/or heart stones, and that he completely made the Horse/Priest Stone. Travis after all was an accomplished stone carver. If you choose to disbelieve, then you are absolutely free to believe anything you want.

Mike

 

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[deducer]

Homar,

Your statement is not necessarily true. My original story came from one or more books. My later versions came from the mouths of people that knew the Tumlinsons personally. A lot of previously unknown information came to light when Garry and I were doing a lot of serious Stone Maps Research.

Here's the thing. When Richard Peck's Investigator spoke to Travis T's very good friend. This friend said that he and Travis would sit up nights for hours trying to figure out the Stone Maps. Travis told his friend that he had added some things to the stones to throw off people idf they were ever stolen. When investigator asked what the stones looked like, he described the two trail stones and the heart. When he was asked about any others, the friend said that he never saw any others. What this could easily mean is that Travis added things to the trail and/or heart stones, and that he completely made the Horse/Priest Stone. Travis after all was an accomplished stone carver. If you choose to disbelieve, then you are absolutely free to believe anything you want.

Mike

Tumlinson did not exhibit a facility for abstract design or engage in anthropomorphism, in any of his carvings or drawings.

Neither did DeGrazia for that matter.

One must ask why Tumlinson would throw in a composite priest and an abstract horse when neither exist on the trail maps, and only serve to complicate rather than simplify.

Also, how did he know to carve 'santafe' (one word) on the left side or to even use it on the horse side, when the stone crosses would not be found for another 29 years, and Bilbrey would not be born for another two years?

We know the stone crosses are not forgeries because of the cursum perficio drawing.

 

[Not Peralta]

Howdy Not Peralta,

I don't know where you get your stories, I never bought the mission story, and I don't buy the crack in the heart story. In my opinion the story about Travis Tumlinson taking the stones to clean at a gas station has more merit. Witnesses said there were roots growing on the groves. After they told him that they might be a treasure map, he became more protective of them.

This story has a picture with the stones on a car bumper. That picture shows only the trail stones, and the heart stone inside one of the trail stones. Travis had found the Priest/Horse stone a year before, it is what brought him back to look for the other stones as the Priest indicates to look for them in the same hole.

The other thing that the picture shows, is that the heart stone was already glued.

Homar

coazon de oro,
I guess I get my stories from having over 50 years first hand experience in the field hunting many different treasures.
I guess it also comes from having great treasure hunting friends and being at the right places, at the right times, with the right people.
also being able to remember what I have seen and heard and most of all what was told to me by my many friends that I have shared good times and bad times treasure hunting with in the field.
First hand knowledge is always better than reading something in a book. np

 

[FEMF]

coazon de oro,
I guess I get my stories from having over 50 years first hand experience in the field hunting many different treasures.
I guess it also comes from having great treasure hunting friends and being at the right places, at the right times, with the right people.
also being able to remember what I have seen and heard and most of all what was told to me by my many friends that I have shared good times and bad times treasure hunting with in the field.
First hand knowledge is always better than reading something in a book. np

Hello NP
It's always fun to add the book to the prier knowledge and experience, if it's a good one like Helen Corbin's two books!
FEMF

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

Your statement is not necessarily true. My original story came from one or more books. My later versions came from the mouths of people that knew the Tumlinsons personally. A lot of previously unknown information came to light when Garry and I were doing a lot of serious Stone Maps Research.

Here's the thing. When Richard Peck's Investigator spoke to Travis T's very good friend. This friend said that he and Travis would sit up nights for hours trying to figure out the Stone Maps. Travis told his friend that he had added some things to the stones to throw off people idf they were ever stolen. When investigator asked what the stones looked like, he described the two trail stones and the heart. When he was asked about any others, the friend said that he never saw any others. What this could easily mean is that Travis added things to the trail and/or heart stones, and that he completely made the Horse/Priest Stone. Travis after all was an accomplished stone carver. If you choose to disbelieve, then you are absolutely free to believe anything you want.

Mike

Howdy Mike,

If your research had no flaws, of course I would accept it, but look at what you are leaving out. When Travis's friend was asked about the stones he saw, he described the trail stones, and the heart stone. He never saw the Priest/Horse stone. What it could easily mean, is that Travis never showed him the P/H stone.

You have a better understanding of the Spanish language than most searchers of the PSM's, you should be able to see that you, and Garry overlooked the most telltale sign that shows Travis incapable of creating the P/H stone. It is the fact that Travis didn't know enough Spanish to create the P/H stone. Your efforts only prove the Travis copied the letters from the P/H stone, to create the Treasure Chest stone.

Maybe deep inside you are aware of this, why would you take a picture with a what you presumed to be a fake, when you could of taken a picture with the real thing?

Homar

 

[coazon de oro]

coazon de oro,
I guess I get my stories from having over 50 years first hand experience in the field hunting many different treasures.
I guess it also comes from having great treasure hunting friends and being at the right places, at the right times, with the right people.
also being able to remember what I have seen and heard and most of all what was told to me by my many friends that I have shared good times and bad times treasure hunting with in the field.
First hand knowledge is always better than reading something in a book. np

Howdy Not Peralta,

Sorry, but all that does not change the fact that the Heart Stone was already broken, and glued when Travis found it.

Homar

 

[Not Peralta]

coazon de oro. what proof do you have besides second hand information, this very scenario was talked about before some of these individuals died. which is first hand knowledge at its best. I have been sitting here listening to every version of this story. and I have to say theres a lot wrong and a lot missing. this story was discussed a long time ago with the people involved and they knew then that the real story would not be told and if it was it would be told in such a way to suit the writer. in the stories that are being told now there are people involved not even being talked about now. anyone telling this story about the stone tablets now absolutely has no real idea of what happened or the people involved, you don't even know the real time line of when these stones were found , who actually found them and how many stones were found. I posted a picture of one side of one of the missing stones, so tell me were it fits into the story you people are talking about now,
you cant because you don't know". THATS MY POINT" np

 

[gollum]

Howdy Mike,

If your research had no flaws, of course I would accept it, but look at what you are leaving out. When Travis's friend was asked about the stones he saw, he described the trail stones, and the heart stone. He never saw the Priest/Horse stone. What it could easily mean, is that Travis never showed him the P/H stone.

You have a better understanding of the Spanish language than most searchers of the PSM's, you should be able to see that you, and Garry overlooked the most telltale sign that shows Travis incapable of creating the P/H stone. It is the fact that Travis didn't know enough Spanish to create the P/H stone. Your efforts only prove the Travis copied the letters from the P/H stone, to create the Treasure Chest stone.

Maybe deep inside you are aware of this, why would you take a picture with a what you presumed to be a fake, when you could of taken a picture with the real thing?

Homar

That picture was taken in 2010. Which is before we learned about the possible fakery.

There would be no reason for Tumlinson not to show his good friend the H/P Stone if he was showing him the the other three. If I were to pick one stone of that bunch to keep hidden from people, it would be the Heart Stone. THAT one is the key to the end of the trail.

How do you know that Travis T didn't speak Spanish. Hell, most of his youth was spent in Cuero, Texas, which is Southeast of San Antonio. Just a spit from Nuevo Laredo. That might also explain the misspelled words on the H/P Stone. Those words were misspelled by someone that knew what the word sounded like, but not how to spell them (maybe). Its not a certain thing. NONE of this is. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I have never said that my research didn't contain flaws here and there. I am most definitely not perfect. I may have put in more time than most, and I might have been privy to a little more confidential information than most. I haven't found the LDM or a treasure at the end of the Stone Map Trail. What that says is that most everybody's opinions are just as valid as mine. If I had found the LDM or a large Church Treasure in the Supers, then I might be able to say "NYA NYA NYA NYA I found it, so your theory doesn't hold water."


Mike

 

[coazon de oro]

That picture was taken in 2010. Which is before we learned about the possible fakery.

There would be no reason for Tumlinson not to show his good friend the H/P Stone if he was showing him the the other three. If I were to pick one stone of that bunch to keep hidden from people, it would be the Heart Stone. THAT one is the key to the end of the trail.

How do you know that Travis T didn't speak Spanish. Hell, most of his youth was spent in Cuero, Texas, which is Southeast of San Antonio. Just a spit from Nuevo Laredo. That might also explain the misspelled words on the H/P Stone. Those words were misspelled by someone that knew what the word sounded like, but not how to spell them (maybe). Its not a certain thing. NONE of this is. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I have never said that my research didn't contain flaws here and there. I am most definitely not perfect. I may have put in more time than most, and I might have been privy to a little more confidential information than most. I haven't found the LDM or a treasure at the end of the Stone Map Trail. What that says is that most everybody's opinions are just as valid as mine. If I had found the LDM or a large Church Treasure in the Supers, then I might be able to say "NYA NYA NYA NYA I found it, so your theory doesn't hold water."


Mike

Howdy Mike,

I for one am very grateful for all the research you, and others have done on the history of the PSM's. Without your findings, we would not be able to come to our own conclusions. None of us are perfect, but you do stand above most when it comes to reasoning. My reason for questioning your finds is not intended to try and change your own reasoning, but rather to provide others with the benefit of the doubt.

I am in agreement with you, I would also have kept the Heart Stone from being viewed rather than the Priest/Horse Stone. Maybe Travis believed it had too much information? A reason for doing so is just the same as the Holmes missing directions.

It doesn't matter is Travis could speak Spanish, or not, the Treasure Chest stone shows that if he did speak it, it was broken Spanish. Take El Chunti De Tayopa for example, he studied Spanish to work for the BP, and has lived in Mexico forever, and he still not fluent. Mexicans understand broken Spanish, and have no need to correct him. He refers to his wife as El Tigre, which is a male tiger, instead of La Tigresa. One has to be fluent to get the gender right, which is a very telltale sign of one's grasp of the Spanish language. It is very clear now why you, and Garry overlooked this. You don't have to take my word for it, but again, in my opinion, Travis was incapable of creating the P/H stone.

Homar

 

[coazon de oro]

coazon de oro. what proof do you have besides second hand information, this very scenario was talked about before some of these individuals died. which is first hand knowledge at its best. I have been sitting here listening to every version of this story. and I have to say theres a lot wrong and a lot missing. this story was discussed a long time ago with the people involved and they knew then that the real story would not be told and if it was it would be told in such a way to suit the writer. in the stories that are being told now there are people involved not even being talked about now. anyone telling this story about the stone tablets now absolutely has no real idea of what happened or the people involved, you don't even know the real time line of when these stones were found , who actually found them and how many stones were found. I posted a picture of one side of one of the missing stones, so tell me were it fits into the story you people are talking about now,
you cant because you don't know". THATS MY POINT" np

Howdy Not Peralta,

The Peralta Stones stand alone, they are only four stones as clearly stated of the Priest stone. There are no missing stones, no crosses, or Latin hearts that go with them, no cursum perficio stone that is part of them, and no Peralta master map attached to them either in my opinion.

You can keep on believing there is a mission in the Superstitions, and that there is a missing stone, and that a child broke the Heart stone at Bob Ward's house, but as long as you have no proof of it, I'll stick with my own opinion.

Homar

 

[sgtfda]

Homar. You are correct. There are no missing stones. There are stones that are not available to the public. Privately held. You can't finish a jig saw puzzle without all the pieces. You can say there are only 4 stones. I know for a fact there is more. In the end it does not matter. They only show old mine locations and some gold deposits. Perhaps a cache or two. .

 

[Not Peralta]

sgtfda. you are correct there are no missing stones ." BUT THERE ARE MORE THAN FOUR" and yes private collections sounds good, as long as two are in the ground and I know were they are.
yes, that could be called a private collection. sgtfda you are also correct about it not making any difference ,now all you will find is old mines. np

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar. You are correct. There are no missing stones. There are stones that are not available to the public. Privately held. You can't finish a jig saw puzzle without all the pieces. You can say there are only 4 stones. I know for a fact there is more. In the end it does not matter. They only show old mine locations and some gold deposits. Perhaps a cache or two. .

Howdy Sarge,

I also know for a fact that there are other stones out there, but they are not a part of the PSM's. In my opinion, the PSM's lead to only one mine.

Homar

 

[deducer]

Howdy Not Peralta,

The Peralta Stones stand alone, they are only four stones as clearly stated of the Priest stone. There are no missing stones, no crosses, or Latin hearts that go with them, no cursum perficio stone that is part of them, and no Peralta master map attached to them either in my opinion.

You can keep on believing there is a mission in the Superstitions, and that there is a missing stone, and that a child broke the Heart stone at Bob Ward's house, but as long as you have no proof of it, I'll stick with my own opinion.

Homar

Not that you would answer my question, but would like to know on what grounds you summarily dismiss the stone crosses and the cursum perficio?

 

[sgtfda]

I agree Homer. One mine. Been there and it was tapped out years ago. There are other gold deposits. Been there too. Some other interesting deposits. I just don't know what it is until tested.

 

[gollum]

See Homar,

You may be making your opinion on outdated information (like I was talking about previously). You utterly dismiss the Bilbrey Crosses and the Latin Heart. Since I can't link to the article on Desert USA Forums, I will post a very interesting picture:



AMAZING, isn't it? These crosses that you say have absolutely zero relevance to the Stone Maps, JUST SO HAPPEN TO EXACTLY FIT ON TOP OF THE CROSS ON THE BACK OF THE UPPER TRAIL MAP! Interesting huh? Makes you maybe might want to rethink your previous statement doesn't it? ;-)

Mike

 

[sgtfda]

Never dismiss things like this. Keep a open mind! Nice Mike. I like that.

 

[coazon de oro]

See Homar,

You may be making your opinion on outdated information (like I was talking about previously). You utterly dismiss the Bilbrey Crosses and the Latin Heart. Since I can't link to the article on Desert USA Forums, I will post a very interesting picture:

View attachment 1019377

AMAZING, isn't it? These crosses that you say have absolutely zero relevance to the Stone Maps, JUST SO HAPPEN TO EXACTLY FIT ON TOP OF THE CROSS ON THE BACK OF THE UPPER TRAIL MAP! Interesting huh? Makes you maybe might want to rethink your previous statement doesn't it? ;-)

Mike

Howdy Mike, and deducer,

A lot of things were created after the PSM's surfaced. Some can't help but to be copycats, others want to be recognized for finding something, it's in their ego, while others try to throw fellow searchers off. Anyone can put a false date on anything, if you are open minded, you will understand this with no trouble.

Of course the crosses fit perfectly, and so does the Latin Heart, why, because they had the PSM's to go by. They even copied the same symbols without even knowing what they represent. The way they are on the crosses they lead nowhere. This reminds me of the joke where a dog sending a telegram of a series of barks is told that for the same price he could add another bark or two, and the dog tells the clerk, "but then it won't make any sense will it?"

To begin with, the stone crosses, and the Latin Heart were created by someone who believed the PSM's are Jesuit made. I have stated before that there is nothing Jesuit about them, they lead to a mine, it is etched in stone. Over the years I have shown this to a chosen few. Then these crosses, and Latin Heart were conveniently found by the person with the ego, with nothing to go by.

Once again, you have to be fluent in Spanish to see that the crossed are "Gringo" made. Both sentences on the cross have the gender wrong. Even an idiot who is fluent in Spanish will get the gender right, even if he may misspell some words. Mike, I have been with you on this before, the phrase they picked, is everywhere,"El Tesoro De La Iglesia De La Santa Fe" does not refer to physical treasure, but to eternal life thru Jesus Christ.

The maker of the Latin Heart did not know enough Latin, so he just picked words out of a dictionary, and in my opinion is the one who destroyed it. If it had been real, something that precious would not have been destroyed. "Actions speak louder than words" - Gollom

There are many who swear they have found things with the stone crosses, and the Latin Heart, and there are those who believe them, but they are only fooling themselves.

Homar

 

[sgtfda]

Homar. Not so fast. The cross could be a pointer used on the priest stone trail. That trail starts in the 1847 heart area and travels into my one gold area. The stone cross tablet is in that trail position. The butte sign lines up perfectly. Mike your idea on placing the cross on the stone is correct. I'm going to compare the cross info to the surrounding hills. There is something other than gold there and this may point where.

 

[sgtfda]

When my map dowser partner first dowsed the area he said there is 500 pounds of something in a certain spot. The bulls eye on the cross is also in that spot. I was distracted by the placer gold. I think that spot deserves a look see. You never know. Mike can you carry 500 pounds.