Did Waltz really have a rich mine?

[audigger53]

Hal or Hla (LOL), my friend drew from memory what the opposite canyon wall looked like from memory of 11 years before. When we got to about the correct height on the other side of the canyon, we looked and nothing was right. I then said "Wait", and turned it around and looked at it from the back side. For almost a mile of the canyon that he drew, he had only missed drawing 3 ravines on the opposite wall.

 

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[markmar]

Injunbro

This photo reminds something to you ? The Apache mine is below the three like wickiups boulders . Don't worry , I know to keep secrets . I also respect American Indian's beliefs and traditions . But keep in your mind how this place belonged to others , before native Indians and other folks " took possession " of it . The carved big cross on the mountain side is the evidence .

 

[EarnieP]

Pretty well sums it up:

The Deadly Legend of the Lost Dutchman Mine | The Lineup


by Stephanie Almazan

 

[sdcfia]

Pretty well sums it up:

The Deadly Legend of the Lost Dutchman Mine | The Lineup


by Stephanie Almazan

Yeah, sums it up for me too. This boatload of fantasy is where I quit reading:

" ... Apaches apparently told de Coronado of the Superstition Mountains and their rumored gold, though they offered no help in finding it.

Word spread through the camp. Soon, men began disappearing in the night, striking out on their own expeditions. When the missing treasure hunters turned up, all that remained were mutilated bodies. ..."

 

[audigger53]

Wow, first I ever heard of Coronado by in the Supes. If it is in a book or on the Internet it must be true. People wouldn't lie on the Net. Seriously, I have to tell kids that not every thing on the Net or books is the truth, and some adults as well. Even non fiction doesn't have to tell the truth. Like the Arizona taking a bomb and going to the bottom, is not true. I have that from a first hand account, my Dad was there at Pearl. When the fire finally got to the powder room, that is when the bottom was blown out and it went down.

 

[Hal Croves]

Pretty well sums it up:

The Deadly Legend of the Lost Dutchman Mine | The Lineup


by Stephanie Almazan

Unfortunately, its a story that gets reinterpreted with every telling.

And, despite the inherent dangers involved, the Superstitions are not some cursed killing grounds. For example, the Catskills in New York State are geographically/topographically similar to that of the Superstitions. On average, one person a year is killed there despite access to water, emergency shelter, and food. Kaaterskill Falls in Hunter is just one example - "DEC closed the trail to the upper falls in the 1980s, but that doesn’t stop folks from scrambling up there… and falling to their deaths. EVERY SINGLE YEAR."



It would have been a different article with a little research.

 

[EarnieP]

I knew you guys would love it.
Yeah, it's a tad (or more) historically inaccurate, but I really did kind of like it. I thought Steph did a fairly good job of presenting some of the intertwined LDM legend in her short article and threw in a little fiction for effect (or is that affect? What the heck impact!).
She might do well writing for the Apache Junction Chamber of Commerce Tourist Committee.
Or maybe she already is...

 

[Hal Croves]

I knew you guys would love it.
Yeah, it's a tad (or more) historically inaccurate, but I really did kind of like it. I thought Steph did a fairly good job of presenting some of the intertwined LDM legend in her short article and threw in a little fiction for effect (or is that affect? What the heck impact!).
She might do well writing for the Apache Junction Chamber of Commerce Tourist Committee.
Or maybe she already is...

No need to embellish when it comes to the Superstition history.
Still one of my favorite places to explore.

 

[EarnieP]

Yeah, sums it up for me too. This boatload of fantasy is where I quit reading:

" ... Apaches apparently told de Coronado of the Superstition Mountains and their rumored gold, though they offered no help in finding it.

Word spread through the camp. Soon, men began disappearing in the night, striking out on their own expeditions. When the missing treasure hunters turned up, all that remained were mutilated bodies. ..."

sdcfia, Are you positive that some of Coronado's Captain Melchior Diaz's cronies didn't tiptoe off to the Sups when he was on his expedition down around the Gila and Rio del Tizon ("River of Embers", (original name for the Colorado River.)) looking for Francisco de Alarcon and his resupply fleet.
Show a nugget of gold to the locals, they point you in that direction, would be a hard lure to resist.

May be more truth in her story than we think.

 

[sdcfia]

sdcfia, Are you positive that some of Coronado's Captain Melchior Diaz's cronies didn't tiptoe off to the Sups when he was on his expedition down around the Gila and Rio del Tizon ("River of Embers", (original name for the Colorado River.)) looking for Francisco de Alarcon and his resupply fleet.
Show a nugget of gold to the locals, they point you in that direction, would be a hard lure to resist.

May be more truth in her story than we think.

Ha ha. As the sap Coronado learned the hard way, ask a native about gold and they will send you off to the middle of Kansas to get rid of you.

I guess if the Waltz, Peraltas, Tumlinson, et al, rumors weren't enough for the avid, then, sure, Steph - try to cram Coronado's guys into the cloudy mix too. We can't prove much from 125 years ago - so let's go back to 1540 and invent some new rumors. We know Tovar found the Hopi mesas, Cardenas found the Grand Canyon, and Alvarado found Taos. At least they got home alive - more than poor Diaz could claim. As far as gold is concerned, nobody found nuttin'. Coronado was not a happy camper.

Marcos de Niza is by far the most interesting of the 16th century Spaniards in North America. Just where the H-ll did he go in 1539? Wasn't Hawikuh, as Coronado bitterly learned. Wasn't South Mountain, as that Marcos petroglyph was found to be phony. Interestingly, after the Native activist Marcos sandbagged Coronado, he was promoted to top dog Franciscan in Mexico and kept a very low profile until he died. Whatever secrets he may have had never surfaced.

 

[EarnieP]

Ha ha. As the sap Coronado learned the hard way, ask a native about gold and they will send you off to the middle of Kansas to get rid of you.

I guess if the Waltz, Peraltas, Tumlinson, et al, rumors weren't enough for the avid, then, sure, Steph - try to cram Coronado's guys into the cloudy mix too. We can't prove much from 125 years ago - so let's go back to 1540 and invent some new rumors. We know Tovar found the Hopi mesas, Cardenas found the Grand Canyon, and Alvarado found Taos. At least they got home alive - more than poor Diaz could claim. As far as gold is concerned, nobody found nuttin'. Coronado was not a happy camper.

Marcos de Niza is by far the most interesting of the 16th century Spaniards in North America. Just where the H-ll did he go in 1539? Wasn't Hawikuh, as Coronado bitterly learned. Wasn't South Mountain, as that Marcos petroglyph was found to be phony. Interestingly, after the Native activist Marcos sandbagged Coronado, he was promoted to top dog Franciscan in Mexico and kept a very low profile until he died. Whatever secrets he may have had never surfaced.

sdcfia, How in the world can I argue with you if you insist on sticking to facts!

Diaz did also spend a winter somewhere in south eastern Arizona. (so I read anyway, hope it wasn't wiki).
That's a lot of time to perhaps meander around the country a bit.
But yes, I understand, no facts support any Superstition activity, ...so far.

Anyway I'm sticking with Steph on this, between the two of you she's got to be better looking!
(You are a guy, right? If not I apologize profusely.)

 

[sdcfia]

sdcfia, How in the world can I argue with you if you insist on sticking to facts!

Diaz did also spend a winter somewhere in south eastern Arizona. (so I read anyway, hope it wasn't wiki).
That's a lot of time to perhaps meander around the country a bit.
But yes, I understand, no facts support any Superstition activity, ...so far.

Anyway I'm sticking with Steph on this, between the two of you she's got to be better looking!
(You are a guy, right? If not I apologize profusely.)

There are no facts to support my opinion, but I do suspect that there is something of great value hidden in the Central Arizona mountains. I don't know what it is, who owns it, when it was hidden or where, but I also suspect that many of the treasure legends in the area are intentionally steering folks away from the true location to bogus ones.

Steph is merely doing her job - she's not an historian, she's a media gal. Here's her picture, "editor Stephanie Almazon at #nyfw" (free use from pinterest.com). Yeah, I'd rather hang out with her than me.

 

[EarnieP]

The verdict is in. She wins!
If that young lady says Coronado's grandmother discovered gold in the Superstition, by gosh, I believe her!

 

[sdcfia]

The verdict is in. She wins!
If that young lady says Coronado's grandmother discovered gold in the Superstition, by gosh, I believe her!

You know, I'm all in too!

 

[nobodie]

I got the urge to look for Coronado's grandmothers gold. I'm packing right now.

 

[Hal Croves]

I got the urge to look for Coronado's grandmothers gold. I'm packing right now.

Funniest four words on TNet.
Thank you nobodie.

 

[hooch]

Me love that loooooooooong time

 

[captain1965]

The DeNeza markings were inconclusive in the little ice age test because park service cleaned graffiti of of them in 1984. Someone tagged the markings with "Tempe High School Rules ".

 

[Hal Croves]

There are no facts to support my opinion, but I do suspect that there is something of great value hidden in the Central Arizona mountains. I don't know what it is, who owns it, when it was hidden or where, but I also suspect that many of the treasure legends in the area are intentionally steering folks away from the true location to bogus ones.

Steph is merely doing her job - she's not an historian, she's a media gal. Here's her picture, "editor Stephanie Almazon at #nyfw" (free use from pinterest.com). Yeah, I'd rather hang out with her than me.

View attachment 1358726

Suspicions with no idea of who, what, where, or when?
I bet if pressed, you could offer a fairly decent explanation for each.

Your misleading treasure legends idea seems a little conspiratorial.
Stories almost always evolve as they are repeated.

 

[sdcfia]

Suspicions with no idea of who, what, where, or when?
I bet if pressed, you could offer a fairly decent explanation for each.

Your misleading treasure legends idea seems a little conspiratorial.
Stories almost always evolve as they are repeated.

I have my suspicions, yes. Call it the North American Unified Treasure Theory if you like. The Arizona rumors are part of it.

Conspiracy Theory: a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group. Yes, the tales are constantly corrupted as they "evolve", as you say. That's the beauty of it all. The 46,000 posts in the TNet Lost Dutchman threads ought to illustrate that.