David and the Peralta stone maps.

[Cubfan64]

Yup, it's all our loss.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning my good friend someHiker: Not nitpicking or trying to be a know-it-all, but for a food grinding unit or an arrastre, that unit is built completely wrong. Notice the inclination on the ground. there is possibly a 2 ft difference between the high and the low part. this would soon accumulate the materiel being ground in the low part. Either for max efficiency HAVE to be built on a level section.

In any event, thanks for those excellent pictures, it is fascinating and far better than a cloud to work one's imagination.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

David,

"Why would it matter to me if you want to believe me or not any more?"

That's the same story we hear from each and every person who comes here, and on other forums, with these kinds of.......theories. "I don't really care if you believe me" or "I don't want the treasures' or "It's all sacred".

We fill some down time by asking you questions and providing some dialog, allowing you to proceed deeper into your own personal quicksand, but no one takes it seriously, I assume not even you.

If you do take it seriously, I would suggest that you just do what you have to and prove us all wrong.
You are wasting your time trying to recruit help here, beyond what you claim you already have.

If you are successful, we will all applaud and say we knew you when. Others may even claim....... "Hell I Was There".

I have to admit that's a nice J W you have in your your last Google Earth picture. It's a sure sign of......something important. Depending on the level of your intelligence, it could be a sign of......I wonder how far I can go with this.

Thanks for putting a smile on my face this morning,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

QB - I don't know about the JW, but I clearly see a number 5, a snail, a cowboy hat, a very clearly marked X, a duck, a stick man and a few other interesting features you missed.

 

[somehiker]

I might add,that three white patches as seen on google earth with no shadows,are probably just three white patches.

Got a Real Photo?
SH.

 

[somehiker]

good morning my good friend someHiker: Not nitpicking or trying to be a know-it-all, but for a food grinding unit or an arrastre, that unit is built completely wrong. Notice the inclination on the ground. there is possibly a 2 ft difference between the high and the low part. this would soon accumulate the materiel being ground in the low part. Either for max efficiency HAVE to be built on a level section.

In any event, thanks for those excellent pictures, it is fascinating and far better than a cloud to work one's imagination.

Don Jose de La Mancha

I'm not sure that having the grindings accumulate at one end is such a bad idea.Makes separation a little easier.The village people that grind rice and other grains in Indochina (Laos for example) use a long straight trough with a drag of stone or hardwood weighted with metal.The trough is mounted on a frame with one end much lower than the other.The grindings are collected at the bottom end in baskets or large bowls.
I mentioned the slope of the rings in my post,I believe.

 

[Old Dog]

I would be just as skeptical if there is another J in that scan just to the right out of the picture. LOL
Sorry David.
Why would Waltz put his initials in the sand (by some method undetermined) In such propertions that even he couldn't read them?
It would be just as believable ( and you would actually find some followers) if you claimed to find a JWJ there, instead of a JW.

The really strange part of the whole thing is both sets of initials make about the same sense.

 

[Twisted Fork]

The Horse stone map;

This map is of an area just east of Weaver's needle. There are 5 dots around a #5 in the top left corner, with a line under them. These places are shown in the first picture and in the second picture. The first picture shows the horse map and all that is in it. Another area that can be viewed is on top of "horse mesa", looking towards Brown's peak mountains, you will see the river, just above the river is the outline of hills that match the line below the #5 and two mines under that line that are next to "the painted cliffs". the #5 is a formation in the mountain and the 5 dots around it, show you the locations of these mines.
Now looking from Brown's peak (marked with a white dot with a red ring) across the river at the cliffs, you will see the "horse" (circled). above the horse's neck is another mine. Just to the left of the horse's nose is a line. If you follow this line (a layer of rock in the cliff) you will come to another mine on top of the hill, following that line you will see the "cross" in the cliff.
I didn't pin point these areas because I would rather you do the work on your own without me giving you it all to you on a silver platter.

I have overlays of the map on the land for those of you that would like to have the ability to zoom in or fade out the picture to see the land under it. please message me if you want to have that file.

I will add something to this post, once every day until it's done. that way i have the chance to add to the post before moving on to the next map and a chance to answer your questions about what is posted.

Hey Bro, before you get started, would you or someone out there please first explain where the water and feed could be found in the Superstitions; enough to support 200+ burros and over 80 men in the rockiest hell hole there is?
I would throw out the Superstitions as a place to look since it is just one big dot to dot shape and space map, laid out across the canyons in an effort to record in a natural setting, just what to look for in the real area Beyond, where there is plenty of water and pasture to support the happy crew who also loved to fish for catfish near the mine. Fresco means "A Fresh Place" Not a hell hole sir. Waltz never sent his friends to their death in search of the mine. He sent them into a maze that would soon wear them out if they had a brain in their head to begin with. So where's the river? qurious
"I pasture to the north of the river" said the little horsey.

 

[somehiker]

Hey Twisted:
What makes you think that this particular horses' "fodder" was grass?
200 burros wouldn't need much grass,nor 80 men much food or water if they were only there for a brief visit.
Thought that you had these maps all figgered out.
Thought maybe you were out there at San Carlos digging it out.

Regards:SH

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good moning Twisted: Basically you are correct on 'TODAYS' condition. However, never try to compare conditions today with the past. Those pretty canyons were not created by a bit of wind.

The old Spanish traveled up and down rivers, arroyos etc. always where, if possible, there was water.
This was for two reasons, available water and feed for themselves and their stock, plus accumulated evidence of minerals.

Many of the rivers that were formidable obstacles for them, are nothing more than trickles today.

According to records, the Supers had quite a bit of water and native grasses when the first Anglos entered. One of the reasons they established ranches in there.

A crude example is Oklahoma, from a fertile, rich, prarie land to a dust bowl, and back to fertile land again, all in one lifetime.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Remember that some hiker also contributed, he used it as a bathroom many times.

 

[Quinan Bear]

That photo is just a marker. look to the right for the mine. It's a few hundred feet from there but I am sure you guys know all about that mine.

If you guys really looked at my post, you would see that I have already shown you a mine but never said anything about it. you mentioned a set of coordinates, Have you gone to that place? Did you notice the cave in the hill? How about the three sharp peaks to the north? How about the three mines to the right, closer to Weaver's needle? There are two cactus markers on each side of the range, they both show you the trail from both sides of those mountains. Like i said, you don't really look at what i show you and because of that, you don't see what is right in front of you.

 

[somehiker]

"p.s. Remember that some hiker also contributed, he used it as a bathroom many times."
Helps to keep the water table up,an them springs flowing.
But
A sage word of advice from one who knows better.
Cholla don't make good buttwipe....pilgrim.

Regards:SH.

 

[Quinan Bear]

How about I show you some of the mines and caves in the area that i have marked on google. Some of them have been removed but the ones you see I am sure you guys know that they are there, so keep in mind that I have never been there.
Although I post a few hog-wash stories as you guys do. I still know more then you may think or that I may have let on. You guys are the reason for me not giving you a straight answer or for totaly going off base. I will give you the same respect and straight answers as you give me. I will help you, as much as you help me. Remember, I am only looking for my name to be added in with the other/s that are involved in the discoveries of these areas. I am not going to go there or anything like that, so what is the harm of joining forces? you have nothing to lose really. Who knows? you may find a new aquaintence that could teach you about things you never knew. we do come from a different place and way of life.
I realise that you guys have knowledge that i can't get from google. I understand that you have read all the books, traveled the country, seen most of the mountains and areas around them. I know what kind of work and long days were involved in obtaining this knowledge. For all this that you have acomplished, I have the deepest respect for you all and I apalogise for the "hogwash" and miss direction.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos,
Quinan Bear wrote

Remember, I am only looking for my name to be added in with the other/s that are involved in the discoveries of these areas.

It appears that you are going about this in the wrong way; while I do not know the employment of every one of our members here, I don't think that any of them are reporters for any of the important news services, newspapers or television. Some of us have written a bit on the subject of lost treasures (obviously) but in my case, I don't even know the correct procedure for conducting an interview so can't be of any assistance along this line. Since what you seek is plainly stated as fame and recognition, may I suggest contacting the New York Times, here is the contact EM

nytnews@nytimes.com
or leave a message at 1-888-NYT-NEWS

or the Arizona Republic newspaper (Phoenix)

Press releases
If you'd like to send a press release, please fax it to The Arizona Republic newsroom at (602) 444-8044 or send it via U.S. Mail to: The Arizona Republic Newsroom, 200 E. Van Buren St., Mail Code NM19, Phoenix, AZ 85004.

You might even decide to make a mass media press release, would save contacting the news agencies one at a time. Trying to convince a bunch of treasure hunters whom have actually gone over the very ground you say has all these mines, when they have seen the place and know there are no mines in those places is very much an uphill battle. I have tried to explain this to you earlier, but really what you are after cannot be found in a treasure hunting forum - you need to contact a news agency or several. They may turn out to be every bit as skeptical as you think we are, but maybe not?

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Quinan Bear]

Oroblanco;

I was under the impression that you knew about these mountains?

Why is it i know of these places? I found them through the USGS and the web.

 

[somehiker]

At the end of the story.There is always the "punch" line.
Was that It?

Kinda made me go look for a break from the monotony.


SH.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning some hiker mi buddy: You posted -->Cholla don't make good buttwipe....pilgrim.
*****************
Ok, OK, you have to let me off of the hook ! How did you hold it to do that, or even let go of it after ??

Care to show Parker how to do that? Be indebited to you.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. He he he apol Parker, my real good friend, he he he.

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

I dont even wanna know .........
Its never a good day when a Cholla decides to attach itself to you!

Below is my back pack taking one for the team Imagine taking one out of the middle of your back...miles away and no one to help ? would be a bad day for sure.

 

[cactusjumper]

Guy's,

I know I have told this story before, but it's worth retelling just for the shudder factor.

Dale Howard was a good friend of our's and an old time Dutch Hunter. He had a "claim" on the south side of Black Top Mesa. Dale rode his horse, 1/2 Quarter Horse and 1/2 Tennessee Walker, into the mountains 100's of times. That horse was so comfortable to ride, and knew his way by heart, that Dale would often fall asleep in the saddle.

How Dale ended up on Black Top is an interesting story and can be found here: http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=194&p=1061&hilit=dale#p1061

Coming out late one evening, Dale sleeping, a rattler was curled up on the trail in Garden Valley. Horse reared up so hard, it went over backwards......into a bed of cholla. Horse ended up on top of Dale with the saddle horn pressing on his chest and his back in the cholla.

He gets his horse back on it's feet, mounts up and rides all the way back into Apache Junction. Don't make men like that any more.

Take care,

Shuddering Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI, the Yaquis favorite trick for the bad boys on their list, was to strip them naked, skin their palms and soles of their feet, then flip cholla buds at them until they were completely covered, then turning them loose with no hard feelings. Only 20 miles to walk / crawl for help. sheesh..

Don Jose de La Mancha