Bonafide Proof

[Rebel - KGC]

OK...

 

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[ECS]

We need facts of the Beale Papers actually happening? Does anyone have anything that is bonafide that actually substantiates that the Beale Party left Virginia in 1817? Is there any information or facts that they were seen or documented as being on the trail from St. Louis, MO. to Sante Fe, NM? Are there any proof of them being in Sante Fe, NM or returning to their homes in Virginia? Folks it is time to prove this story before we continue to hunt for a GHOST TREASURE. GHOST are hard to see and even harder to find if not impossible. So here it is what bonafide proof do you have let us have it?

What we all have is a complete total lack of any proof, information, or evidence that Beale's perilous adventure and treasure happened outside of the pages of Ward's copyrighted Beale Papers pamphlet.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

What we all have is a complete total lack of any proof, information, or evidence that Beale's perilous adventure and treasure happened outside of the pages of Ward's copyrighted Beale Papers pamphlet.

AGREE!

 

[ECS]

When others signed Robert Morriss' name they spelled it "Morris" but when he signed his own name "Morriss" of course he signed it "Rob Morrifs" Old style. Also the papers are dated 1813, 1817,1818,1819 after that he went in to the Hotel business for good. But there is no mention of Thomas J. Beale. Even the papers after that without Robert Morriss being in them did not mention Thomas J. Beale?

"His (Beale) character soon became universally known"- The Beale Papers, Robert Morriss as told to the "unknown author"
Lynchburg, with a 1820 population about 2000, this statement indicates that others knew of Thomas J Beale's stay, but as Franklin noted, NO mention of Thomas J Beale until the "unknown author" presents Ward with the finished manuscript 65 years later.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, I DO NOT think that the unknown author provided a manuscript; I think that John William Sherman interviewed him & wrote THE STORY for the News-Virginian; coulda been a "dime novel", published by the JOB PRINT... dunno. BOTH were in the VIRGINIAN BUILDING, now being renovated into a 1st class Hotel. $$$$$$$$$! WHEW!

 

[ECS]

...

Here's what I believe happened because it happened to me. Everyone that is good at ciphers is usually contacted by someone with a cipher code to break and I believe the same thing happened to James Beverly Ward. My brother in law gave me a copy of the cipher code in the argosy magazine back in the 1960's because I was brilliant with numbers.

Those cipher codes being sold all over the south ended up in James Beverly Ward's hands. He believed them to be authentic to a real treasure. He made up the story about gold in Sante Fe area, he had all the resources within the family and his travels as well. That is the reason James Beverly Ward worked on the ciphers believing that they would lead him to a treasure. James Beverly Ward was Civil Engineer and he believed he could crack the cipher codes leading to his almost losing everything he had. He made up the story hoping that someone would find a paper or key to the code and bring it to him so he could break the re-arranged cipher codes that he published.

The story is a hoax anyone that believes otherwise can waste the rest of their lives and not find the Beale Treasure. They may get lucky and find another treasure since the story runs you 2,000 miles in every direction of the compass. Good Luck.

...or it can just an adventure/treasure dime novel with parlor entertainment ciphers solely created for the purpose of profit.
James Beverly Ward was in financial straights in the 1880's.

 

[ECS]

... Expert cryptologist's opinion ways in that the Beale Treasure is a hoax. I can prove it is by the author using an 1878 DOI to decipher the codes and while decoding them he miss counts after 480 but yet every letter he needs to decipher is right on, there is no way this could happen other than the author made the cipher codes himself. Think about it the author's mistakes clearly tells you it is a hoax.

Bigscoop has posted additional proof on several of his threads.

 

[franklin]

So if I stop hunting for the Beale Treasure will that make you and Bigscoop happy. What is in it for the two of you? Does it make you angry just because someone wants to find evidence to verify or deny the story? I can not see why you two keep posting the same rhetoric over and over. If you want us to stop posting fine. But to stop searching, you already have so leave the rest of us alone. Is this suppose to be a slug fight? Why do you not start a thread of your own about all of your misgivings and findings and let us post ours without each bickering at each other. I for one am tired of watching you dig up old post and cutting out what you want to talk about. We want to talk about what we are researching today. Not what was said or done years ago. You two need to get a life and let the Beale Treasure alone. If you do not have nothing but time use it to your advantage instead of trying to waste everyone else's time reading your tirelessly same post over and over.

Old Silver, garry and Cw0909 have posted the best links and information on the Beale Treasure this year. I have learned and found out more from them that all of the negative post put together. Please come back and post. As for ECS and bigscoop I would rather not post or talk to you two gentlemen any further.

 

[bigscoop]

So if I stop hunting for the Beale Treasure will that make you and Bigscoop happy. What is in it for the two of you? Does it make you angry just because someone wants to find evidence to verify or deny the story? I can not see why you two keep posting the same rhetoric over and over. If you want us to stop posting fine. But to stop searching, you already have so leave the rest of us alone. Is this suppose to be a slug fight? Why do you not start a thread of your own about all of your misgivings and findings and let us post ours without each bickering at each other. I for one am tired of watching you dig up old post and cutting out what you want to talk about. We want to talk about what we are researching today. Not what was said or done years ago. You two need to get a life and let the Beale Treasure alone. If you do not have nothing but time use it to your advantage instead of trying to waste everyone else's time reading your tirelessly same post over and over.

Old Silver, garry and Cw0909 have posted the best links and information on the Beale Treasure this year. I have learned and found out more from them that all of the negative post put together. Please come back and post. As for ECS and bigscoop I would rather not post or talk to you two gentlemen any further.

Franklin, when you continue to make "several vastly different" unsupported claims of solves then you open yourself up to the factual contrary information that follows. This is the purpose of forums, a means by which you can present theories so they can be critiqued and their weaknesses pointed out. Happens to everyone, some are able to accept it while others continue to deny it. What you and others keep asking of folks is that they buy into and participate in theories that are obviously wrong for your own benefit. At some point you need to step back and take a good look at the "numerous" solves/claims you have made on just this one topic, the Beale mystery, and then ask yourself why & how? And then ask yourself if all of this past claimed solved history isn't constantly causing folks to keep you in check on all of your alleged facts. You can't post inaccuracies and unsupported claims of solve time and time again without folks finally catching on and then fact checking those claims.

 

[ECS]

... We want to talk about what we are researching today. Not what was said or done years ago. You two need to get a life and let the Beale Treasure alone. If you do not have nothing but time use it to your advantage instead of trying to waste everyone else's time reading your tirelessly same post over and over...

Is there a difference to your "tirelessly same post over and over" about "NEW DISCOVERED INFORMATION" that is neither new or ever confirmed, and eventually dropped from the thread dialog after questioned by others.
As Bigscoop mentioned, the very fact that you have presented "several vastly different unsupported claims" and continue to do so on this forum, you should expect questions of credibility to arise due to this past speculative claims that are never ever substantiated with hard evidence.
It has become your modus operandi to decry "negative posts" when one questions or disagrees and doesn't accept at face value these many fantastic and conflicting claims, ending with the disclaimer of "discussing possibilities".
If others fact checking causes such distress, that may because the information is not solidly based.

 

[P.ALLEN]

Continue the Ghost Hunt at All Costs!!!!

 

[bigscoop]

And remember too Franklin, these forums are full of some of you're brutal and frank replies to posters over the years so don't be pointing the finger at those of us who are just providing the same type of responses/critique that you've scripted yourself many times over. Surely if you can dish it out you can take it as well, yes? If you found that contrary information valuable enough to dish out then you likewise find the same type of contrary information valuable enough to accept, yes? Or this strictly a one way street you exist on, all of your wrongs being rights regardless?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Continue the Ghost Hunt at All Costs!!!!

Well, the Peaks of Otter IS haunted...

 

[ECS]

...with the ghosts of Thomas Read and George Radar Brugh according to two other versions of the Beale tale presented by Franklin in the past.

 

[ECS]

And remember too Franklin, these forums are full of some of you're brutal and frank replies to posters over the years so don't be pointing the finger at those of us who are just providing the same type of responses/critique that you've scripted yourself many times over.
Surely if you can dish it out you can take it as well, yes? If you found that contrary information valuable enough to dish out then you likewise find the same type of contrary information valuable enough to accept, yes?
Or this strictly a one way street you exist on, all of your wrongs being rights regardless?

Well it has become apparent that he does not liked to be questioned about information posted as "fact" but is quick to question others if he doubts their information, while believing his "facts" are above reproach.

 

[franklin]

My facts are as they are documented and can be verified to be authentic.

 

[ECS]

My facts are as they are documented and can be verified to be authentic.

Many of your "facts" seem to have originated from clairvoyants and mediums, a practice that originated with the Hart brothers and furthered by others.
Yes they can be verified as "authentic statements" with the same inference and meaning in the Beale Papers title, but that is not a guarantee that the information is true.

 

[ECS]

Franklin, when you continue to make "several vastly different" unsupported claims of solves then you open yourself up to the factual contrary information that follows.
This is the purpose of forums, a means by which you can present theories so they can be critiqued and their weaknesses pointed out. Happens to everyone, some are able to accept it while others continue to deny it. What you and others keep asking of folks is that they buy into and participate in theories that are obviously wrong for your own benefit.
At some point you need to step back and take a good look at the "numerous" solves/claims you have made on just this one topic, the Beale mystery, and then ask yourself why & how? And then ask yourself if all of this past claimed solved history isn't constantly causing folks to keep you in check on all of your alleged facts.
You can't post inaccuracies and unsupported claims of solve time and time again without folks finally catching on and then fact checking those claims.

With all these "vastly unsupported claims" made, provides support that the original 1885 Beale Papers were nothing more than a period dime novel with the ciphers included as a play along parlor entertainment, created to be sold in limited quantities in Lynchburg.

 

[ECS]

I believe the Friedman's opinions about the Beale Ciphers says a lot. Expert cryptologist's opinion ways in that the Beale Treasure is a hoax. I can prove it is by the author using an 1878 DOI to decipher the codes and while decoding them he miss counts after 480 but yet every letter he needs to decipher is right on, there is no way this could happen other than the author made the cipher codes himself. Think about it the author's mistakes clearly tells you it is a hoax.

...and all those other professional government cryptologists have come to the very same conclusion, that the C1 & C3 do not contain legitimate messages, it is the amateur hopefuls that claim otherwise.

 

[franklin]

...and all those other professional government cryptologists have come to the very same conclusion, that the C1 & C3 do not contain legitimate messages, it is the amateur hopefuls that claim otherwise.

Yes the "Beale Papers" may not be true? But still why make up such a hoax must be a cover-up for some treasure and most likely KGC. That is why I am still investigating this story. Frank James and his family staying in Lynchburg, Va. the Winter of 1883 to the Spring of 1884. They were still there when Jesse James was reported killed by Bob Ford. His wife showed the story to him in a New York Newspaper while in Lynchburg. Spring of 1884 near the time James Beverly Ward sent in his application for a copyright of the Beale Papers. I still believe there is something here in the Beale Papers for us to find.

I know the author made up C2 and it's decipherment but still there could be something in C1 & C3 and that is what I am good at finding.

Oh and by the way, ECS, the reason I make mistakes sometimes is because my research is accurate, I simply do not have the time to dig it all up to make it 100% accurate. I do it all from memory not from the research.

Think about C2 there is only about two reasons for having C2. One is the author wanted to bring out someone that may have a "KEY" to C1 or C3 to find the real treasure. Two, it was to excite the reader and get him into trying to break the codes. One would make the treasure a "REAL" treasure and Two would make it a hoax or just a story or dime novel. But which is it.