Bonafide Proof

McGuffy: Leading someone in one direction and jumping away in another direction. Jumping back to the original: Double McGuffy. The problem may be going in what we think is the real direction, but is it? I think my research says one thing, but others do not trust me. Why? I am a self admitted "World Class Liar." A student of the fine art misdirection. I know when I am telling the truth and when I am not, I think. Here lately I have trouble remembering if I had breakfast or not.

My oldest son works for the Saint Louis University, the Jesuits. The most money hungry order of the Catholic Church. He works with the science department, and has numerous patents, and access to the entire area. If there is any evidence about lost treasures it would be there. He is not into treasure hunting, but I may be able to persuade him to research for something.

I have no reason to lie, I have all of the money I need to live quite well for the rest of my life. My favorite pastime is spending money, according to my wife. Two of my closes friends, both older then I am, are admittedly "Treasure Hunters." One is an electrical engineer, who has developed a new tow behind underwater metal detector, "Proton Torpedo" if you will. He has a big cabin cruiser to tow it and he is a diver. He also just purchased an airplane. He spends his spare time mapping the area along the Gulf of Mexico in back of his beach front house, marking the sites. The only time he can check the site is when he can find someone he trust to go with him. The other friend, also older then I, only detects in his area or when he goes to friend #1's house. They live about three hundred miles apart. Both are to far away for me to visit.

I live on an Indian mound in the middle of nowhere, 26 miles from the nearest Wall-Mart.

Nap-time.

P.S. Laissez les bons temps rouler
 

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Bigscoop I think that you are thinking to Double Mc Duffer: Aiming at one hole and hitting close to another.
 

45th_Johnny said:
Bigscoop I think that you are thinking to Double Mc Duffer: Aiming at one hole and hitting close to another.
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Perhaps, perhaps not. :laughing7: Maybe I'm actually aiming for the hole I'm hitting? Sometimes the best approach shot isn't always the best shot or what it seems.
 

You know if everyone would get along and post constructive information to others to research we just may lay this treasure story to rest after 132 years? Or we can keep bickering and getting nothing done. I will start with some information. I know it does not solve the Beale Papers Mystery but if we bite on the bones long enough we may find something.

I have documented proof that Thomas Beale Sr. died in September, 1820. I have documented proof that Thomas Beale Jr. died after July14, 1823, when he made a $400 payment on the plantation that Thomas Beale's Sr. estate owed. That was next to the last payment on the plantation. The last payment of $850 was paid by his executor of his estate. I also have documents to prove that during the Winter of 1819 and the Spring of 1820 when Thomas J. Beale was at Robert Morriss' both Thomas Beale Sr. and Thomas Beale Jr. was in New Orleans. I also have documents to verify that both Thomas Beale Sr. and Thomas Beale Jr. were not at Robert Morriss' during the Winter of 1821 and the Spring of 1822 as Thomas Beale Sr. was deceased and Thomas Beale Jr. was running two hotels one on Canal Street and the other Hotel on Charters Street that Thomas Beale Sr. built while living. Thomas Beale Jr. did a great deal of hotel business in 1821 and 1822 but slacked off at the end of 1822. He died after July 14, 1822 and before May 21, 1824. I have the overseer's name that ran the plantation and took care of his 29 slaves. I have the name of the man that kept the books and worked the front desk at the Planter's and Merchant's Hotel on Canal Street.
 

franklin said:
You know if everyone would get along and post constructive information to others to research we just may lay this treasure story to rest after 132 years? Or we can keep bickering and getting nothing done. I will start with some information. I know it does not solve the Beale Papers Mystery but if we bite on the bones long enough we may find something.

I have documented proof that Thomas Beale Sr. died in September, 1820. I have documented proof that Thomas Beale Jr. died after July14, 1823, when he made a $400 payment on the plantation that Thomas Beale's Sr. estate owed. That was next to the last payment on the plantation. The last payment of $850 was paid by his executor of his estate. I also have documents to prove that during the Winter of 1819 and the Spring of 1820 when Thomas J. Beale was at Robert Morriss' both Thomas Beale Sr. and Thomas Beale Jr. was in New Orleans. I also have documents to verify that both Thomas Beale Sr. and Thomas Beale Jr. were not at Robert Morriss' during the Winter of 1821 and the Spring of 1822 as Thomas Beale Sr. was deceased and Thomas Beale Jr. was running two hotels one on Canal Street and the other Hotel on Charters Street that Thomas Beale Sr. built while living. Thomas Beale Jr. did a great deal of hotel business in 1821 and 1822 but slacked off at the end of 1822. He died after July 14, 1822 and before May 21, 1824. I have the overseer's name that ran the plantation and took care of his 29 slaves. I have the name of the man that kept the books and worked the front desk at the Planter's and Merchant's Hotel on Canal Street.
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Franklin, the problem is just as it has always been, and I know you hate hearing me say it again and again, but there's not s single shred of provenance in existance supporting the tale, none at all, and you know this. On top of this, as you yourself have even referenced and pointed out at times, we know the author wasn't telling the truth on several fronts so why believe anything else he may have written without said provenance supporting those details? Sure, if you can find some means of actual provenance in support of the author's claims and details then that's something that can be built upon, but as long as everything remains a complete unknown then nothing of any true accuracy is ever going to come from all of the speculation, romance, hypothesis, etc., etc. Regardless what we each personally believe it means absolutely nothing without that provenance that establishes at least some measure of truth in the author's claims and it just isn't there to be found anywhere. Per example, what you posted above, absolutely zero to even hint that this was even part of the tale other then close similarities in names, and that's it. So how can anything proceed with any degree of accuracy without that provenance to guide it? It's pretty simple, it can't.
 

franklin said:
You know if everyone would get along and post constructive information to others to research we just may lay this treasure story to rest after 132 years? ...
After 132 years all the "constructive information" and other information has been brought up, discussed, rehashed, discussed and so on, and will be forever due to the total lack of even the slightest evidence or provenance connected to the presented Thomas Beale in the job print pamphlet.
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Let's say the story is true. Now let's say I am Ward and I want to publish the "Papers". So the original writer "T.J.B." knew all of the answers to the ciphers, because he made them, Ward did not. Ward may have made hundreds of copies of the codes in order to try and brake the original. No copy machines, they would have to be copied by hand, or risk the original to spills, from all the coffee /fires from the candles/etc... What I am trying saying is, they had to be copied and kept safe. Every copy had to be free of mistakes. If this was at all possible, which I doubt, unless he went to a printer in the beginning and had them make countless copies to work from. The printer who set the print would have to not made any mistakes. The context would have had to remain in its original form, IE twelve numbers across twelve numbers down twelve boxes of numbers or however many it was in the beginning. If not everything would be changed. The code that was decoded with the DOI was across, the others could have been up or down or backwards. In English, French, Spanish or Pig-Latin, who knows. Without the original there is very little chance of finding the treasure if it ever existed. Ad to the fact that electronics has developed way beyond the point anyone can imagine, to the point where treasure sites have been identified from orbiting the Earth. I have been told I do not need a metal detector to find treasure, i can use my GPS. I will have to investigate that later.

Anyway munch on that and let me know what you think.
 

45th_Johnny said:
Let's say the story is true. Now let's say I am Ward and I want to publish the "Papers". So the original writer "T.J.B." knew all of the answers to the ciphers, because he made them, Ward did not...
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During the period that Ward was "ignorant of this episode in Mr Morriss' career", according to Beale Papers narrative, the iron box with the ciphers and Beale's letters were in Morriss' possession until the "2nd year of the Confederate War" when Morriss told the tale to the "unknown author", allegedly receiving the iron box, ciphers, letters, then working on solving the ciphers for 20 years, only "solving" C2, then the "unknown author" contacted Ward with a finished manuscript "placed in his hands".
Ward then applies for copyright as agent on borrowed letterhead, has cousin John William Sherman print copies of the pamphlet, and away we go .
 

I have the original Ward book, I now have an autographed copy of "Gold in the Blue Ridge", it arrived today. If I place my right hand on her signature I can feel the psychic vibrations emitting from it. I just need to go back to collage and learn to read it. Some where in California should offer a course in that. Or I am sure Madam Renie in the French Quarter of New Orleans can help. I really do get vibrations.

P.S. Trust me.
 

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45th_Johnny said:
Let's say the story is true. Now let's say I am Ward and I want to publish the "Papers". So the original writer "T.J.B." knew all of the answers to the ciphers, because he made them, Ward did not. Ward may have made hundreds of copies of the codes in order to try and brake the original. No copy machines, they would have to be copied by hand, or risk the original to spills, from all the coffee /fires from the candles/etc... What I am trying saying is, they had to be copied and kept safe. Every copy had to be free of mistakes. If this was at all possible, which I doubt, unless he went to a printer in the beginning and had them make countless copies to work from. The printer who set the print would have to not made any mistakes. The context would have had to remain in its original form, IE twelve numbers across twelve numbers down twelve boxes of numbers or however many it was in the beginning. If not everything would be changed. The code that was decoded with the DOI was across, the others could have been up or down or backwards. In English, French, Spanish or Pig-Latin, who knows. Without the original there is very little chance of finding the treasure if it ever existed. Ad to the fact that electronics has developed way beyond the point anyone can imagine, to the point where treasure sites have been identified from orbiting the Earth. I have been told I do not need a metal detector to find treasure, i can use my GPS. I will have to investigate that later.

Anyway munch on that and let me know what you think.
Click to expand...

If I were to put 700 random numbers on a piece of paper and then I told people that it was actually a code leading to a treasure you'd be surprised at the number of completely different methods and solutions those 700 random numbers were generate from folks who believed what I had told them. This is why you always research the source first, to see if there are reasons why you shouldn't place your blind trust in that source. This is the most important first step and yet many folks really don't want to know if the source can be trusted, they just want to believe in the existence of said treasure. :thumbsup:
 

bigscoop said:
Why must there "always" be real treasure?
Why not just a dime novel?
For some reason people hook far too easily on tales of treasure, even the most obvious of fictional tales maintaining an audience of true believers.
So allow me to ask, why are you assuming that there must be a real treasure attached to this narration when there exist absolutely not one shred of provenance to support that notion?
And the same goes for the whole KGC myth of secret wealth as well.
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...because there also exists that thought that they will be the "one" who solves these ciphers and recovers the treasure.
"This is what dreams are made of"- The Treasure Of The Sierra Madre
... that movie line sums it all up. :icon_thumright:
 

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