Why skeptics doesnt show proof?
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LM
Hero Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
I wanted to give an acceptance speech for my award.
"First, I'd like to thank the academy..."
No, I didn't know that. I do now and it clears a lot of things up.
[/quote]
JudyH said:
I wanted to give an acceptance speech for my award.
"First, I'd like to thank the academy..."
Judy is a friend of Dell, as I'm sure EVERYBODY on this forum is aware. Can't imagine why you felt it necessary to refer to our relationship.Jealous?
No, I didn't know that. I do now and it clears a lot of things up.
[/quote]
EE THr
Silver Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
I just wanted to see EddieR's picture again.
Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud
JudyH said:EE THr said:
Yet you couldn't help yourself
I just wanted to see EddieR's picture again.
Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud
fenixdigger
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Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
Let me try that again. Have you put any effort into trying to learn how to use one of the devices you say you have had in hand or been in the presence of anyone that could use one?
Without all the dancing, a simple yes or no answer will do.
Let me try that again. Have you put any effort into trying to learn how to use one of the devices you say you have had in hand or been in the presence of anyone that could use one?
Without all the dancing, a simple yes or no answer will do.
EE THr
Silver Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
fenix---
That's like asking someone if they have ever seriously tried to learn how to use this thing.
Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud
fenix---
That's like asking someone if they have ever seriously tried to learn how to use this thing.
Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud
fenixdigger
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Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
No it's really not. If someone says they can do something and I want to do the same thing, I will attempt to learn on my own and if needed get someone to help me.
If I wanted proof something worked and I had access to one, I would go to the person that had said that, with it and ask them to do it with the one I had. I could then determine if I could do it or it was impossible at that point. This would validate either way and remove the possibility that my unit was defective.
Anyone that does less than that and forms opinions that they make public is either lazy, arrogant, foolish, or in that group needing a little therapy. This is not my opinion, but cold, straight logic. Few things are absolute but this one is.
No it's really not. If someone says they can do something and I want to do the same thing, I will attempt to learn on my own and if needed get someone to help me.
If I wanted proof something worked and I had access to one, I would go to the person that had said that, with it and ask them to do it with the one I had. I could then determine if I could do it or it was impossible at that point. This would validate either way and remove the possibility that my unit was defective.
Anyone that does less than that and forms opinions that they make public is either lazy, arrogant, foolish, or in that group needing a little therapy. This is not my opinion, but cold, straight logic. Few things are absolute but this one is.
EE THr
Silver Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
fenix---
Wrong.
First, you don't get to make up the rules of logic.
Second, quit insulting me.
If you have some proof that LRLs do something better than dowsing, show it.
Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud
fenix---
Wrong.
First, you don't get to make up the rules of logic.
Second, quit insulting me.
If you have some proof that LRLs do something better than dowsing, show it.
Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud
aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
~EE THr~
1- Fallacy of affirming the consequent
If P, then Q example: If I can do long division, then I can add and subtract.
If Q, therefore P If I can add and subtract, I can do long division
2- Fallacy of denying the antecedent
If P, then Q example: If I locked my car, it won't be stolen
If not P, then not Q I did not lock my car, therefore it will be stolen
Go to a LRL dealer and ask for a demonstration..That is the only way to overcome the Randi syndrome..Art
~EE THr~
You are correct LT
Yes it would good if you read them EE TH
Can you imagine LT believing everyone telling the truth are insulting you ?
Logic
1- Fallacy of affirming the consequent
If P, then Q example: If I can do long division, then I can add and subtract.
If Q, therefore P If I can add and subtract, I can do long division
2- Fallacy of denying the antecedent
If P, then Q example: If I locked my car, it won't be stolen
If not P, then not Q I did not lock my car, therefore it will be stolen
Go to a LRL dealer and ask for a demonstration..That is the only way to overcome the Randi syndrome..Art
aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
Yes it is a fallacy..
"Personal attacks" redirects here. For the Wikipedia policy, see Wikipedia:No personal attacks.
An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the opponent advocating the premise.[1] The ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy,[2] but it is not always fallacious; in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.[3]
Darn LT…that is still correct
Yes it is a fallacy..
"Personal attacks" redirects here. For the Wikipedia policy, see Wikipedia:No personal attacks.
An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the opponent advocating the premise.[1] The ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy,[2] but it is not always fallacious; in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.[3]
What does a quote from Carl Sagan have to do with the subject ?
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
Eh, yeah I'd say thats a good idea only that I've had a fair share of demonstrations by so called experts.
It's a crock, there's no RANDI syndrome quit trying to invent stuff.
Logic rules and logic says they don't work.
Last time I got a demo was at Kellyco here in Winter Springs, Fl and I believe it was a Pro II series locator.
The guy who was demonstrating it to me and to two others was real helpful up until I pointed out that it looked rather
unprofessional and flimsy... As opposed to anything made by Garrett or Whites and considering it was over $1000 for the device. Bad idea on my behalf cause when I did that the other two guys (whom I'd never met before) opened up and
pointed out a bunch of oddities I hadn't really paid attention to. Lets just say the guy who was showing it to us was very pissed and displeased and would not answer questions after those two took off so I got left empty handed. Granted not as empty handed had I kept the device after I bought it to tinker with it (sure enough it's electronics amounted to diddly squat so even if I had been a pro at using LRLs by your standards, it wouldn't do anything anyways).
It's been the same situation every time I have gotten a demonstration and/or training. There is no usual excuse for when something doesn't work for you but the most common one I hear is "You have to believe in it!!" haha.
Please refrain from talking to me about your so called "demonstrations" as I REALLY don't want to bother thinking about how many times (and how much time and money) I have spent buying these fraud devices. Again, I repeat, thats why I am on here, so others don't make the same mistake. You sell snake oil... I specialize in snakes and their fluids. I have made a pretty good business out of getting engineering, geotechnical, and insurance firms to stop using these for their sinkhole/geotechnical etc.. investigations and they can't thank me/pay me enough. Deal with it.
aarthrj3811 said:
Eh, yeah I'd say thats a good idea only that I've had a fair share of demonstrations by so called experts.
It's a crock, there's no RANDI syndrome quit trying to invent stuff.
Logic rules and logic says they don't work.
Last time I got a demo was at Kellyco here in Winter Springs, Fl and I believe it was a Pro II series locator.
The guy who was demonstrating it to me and to two others was real helpful up until I pointed out that it looked rather
unprofessional and flimsy... As opposed to anything made by Garrett or Whites and considering it was over $1000 for the device. Bad idea on my behalf cause when I did that the other two guys (whom I'd never met before) opened up and
pointed out a bunch of oddities I hadn't really paid attention to. Lets just say the guy who was showing it to us was very pissed and displeased and would not answer questions after those two took off so I got left empty handed. Granted not as empty handed had I kept the device after I bought it to tinker with it (sure enough it's electronics amounted to diddly squat so even if I had been a pro at using LRLs by your standards, it wouldn't do anything anyways).
It's been the same situation every time I have gotten a demonstration and/or training. There is no usual excuse for when something doesn't work for you but the most common one I hear is "You have to believe in it!!" haha.
Please refrain from talking to me about your so called "demonstrations" as I REALLY don't want to bother thinking about how many times (and how much time and money) I have spent buying these fraud devices. Again, I repeat, thats why I am on here, so others don't make the same mistake. You sell snake oil... I specialize in snakes and their fluids. I have made a pretty good business out of getting engineering, geotechnical, and insurance firms to stop using these for their sinkhole/geotechnical etc.. investigations and they can't thank me/pay me enough. Deal with it.
aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
Thank You…You are the second unhappy consumer..Art
Thank You…You are the second unhappy consumer..Art
fenixdigger
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Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
I and others have given directions to make simple low cost devices to try to duplicate some of the things we talk about.
Ever try any of them
?
The key to what I said was find someone that CAN use one of the devices not a place selling them. Would you go to a place that sold bowling pins to learn to juggle
I hate it for you guys. As Art said, logic is very simple, If this, then that. Never changes. If you can't put in the effort why argue about something you don't have a clue about, but since you "figured" it out in YOUR head it must be so. Consider natural phenomenon. Or don't if it is uncomfortable for you.
I could list a LOT of things not understood today just as you can. Why do you have a problem putting this in the same bag?
It doesn't mean you are stupid. But if you get obsessed with you being right against anything against your beliefs,,, well you know. Sorry, again an absolute.
I and others have given directions to make simple low cost devices to try to duplicate some of the things we talk about.
Ever try any of them
?The key to what I said was find someone that CAN use one of the devices not a place selling them. Would you go to a place that sold bowling pins to learn to juggle
I hate it for you guys. As Art said, logic is very simple, If this, then that. Never changes. If you can't put in the effort why argue about something you don't have a clue about, but since you "figured" it out in YOUR head it must be so. Consider natural phenomenon. Or don't if it is uncomfortable for you.
I could list a LOT of things not understood today just as you can. Why do you have a problem putting this in the same bag?
It doesn't mean you are stupid. But if you get obsessed with you being right against anything against your beliefs,,, well you know. Sorry, again an absolute.
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
The only problem with you guys showing off these devices is anyone with half a brain and a bit of an education could pick you apart and toss you aside for the trash you are when you show these devices off. Not to mention all the dodged questions such as you do here all the time. And again you resort to attacks because you have no argument.
I have more than a clue about these devices than you do, I can actively take any apart and reproduce them to the exact same results 100% of the time, only because there's absolutely nothing special about them and they're a fraud. So yes I know more than you about these devices, maybe I don't know how to use them?? (Lets not get back to circular arguments.)
Funny you mention that. A guy with 493 posts on these forums right now, and I'm willing to bet MOST if not all, are more absolute drivel such as what you posted above (still ducking my statements and questions with pique statements and conversation derailing arguments) saying I'M obsessive yet you STILL fail to provide any LEGITIMATE FREAKING EVIDENCE BACKED BY A LEGITIMATE AND REPUTABLE INSTITUTE OR SCIENTIFIC ENTITY THAT CAN BACK ALL YOUR BOGUS CLAIMS. See that is not obsession, that is me exposing your fraud. Maybe you can read that line... but I'm gonna have to bet that gets sidestepped again :-/
We have provided more than ample evidence that these devices are all a FRAUD and the people behind them are all 100% part of the FRAUD (and should be prosecuted for that matter).
Guess that argument above refers to you yourself being stupid then eh..
You are pushing these devices, YOU PROVE they are legitimate... since you can't, you'll drive this argument around in circles yet again... Thanks for proving my point :-D And thanks for the laugh.
fenixdigger said:I and others have given directions to make simple low cost devices to try to duplicate some of the things we talk about.
Ever try any of them
The key to what I said was find someone that CAN use one of the devices not a place selling them. Would you go to a place that sold bowling pins to learn to juggle
I hate it for you guys. As Art said, logic is very simple, If this, then that. Never changes. If you can't put in the effort why argue about something you don't have a clue about, but since you "figured" it out in YOUR head it must be so. Consider natural phenomenon. Or don't if it is uncomfortable for you.
I could list a LOT of things not understood today just as you can. Why do you have a problem putting this in the same bag?
It doesn't mean you are stupid. But if you get obsessed with you being right against anything against your beliefs,,, well you know. Sorry, again an absolute.
The only problem with you guys showing off these devices is anyone with half a brain and a bit of an education could pick you apart and toss you aside for the trash you are when you show these devices off. Not to mention all the dodged questions such as you do here all the time. And again you resort to attacks because you have no argument.
I have more than a clue about these devices than you do, I can actively take any apart and reproduce them to the exact same results 100% of the time, only because there's absolutely nothing special about them and they're a fraud. So yes I know more than you about these devices, maybe I don't know how to use them?? (Lets not get back to circular arguments.)
Whos obsessing? Oh....fenixdigger said:
Funny you mention that. A guy with 493 posts on these forums right now, and I'm willing to bet MOST if not all, are more absolute drivel such as what you posted above (still ducking my statements and questions with pique statements and conversation derailing arguments) saying I'M obsessive yet you STILL fail to provide any LEGITIMATE FREAKING EVIDENCE BACKED BY A LEGITIMATE AND REPUTABLE INSTITUTE OR SCIENTIFIC ENTITY THAT CAN BACK ALL YOUR BOGUS CLAIMS. See that is not obsession, that is me exposing your fraud. Maybe you can read that line... but I'm gonna have to bet that gets sidestepped again :-/
We have provided more than ample evidence that these devices are all a FRAUD and the people behind them are all 100% part of the FRAUD (and should be prosecuted for that matter).
Guess that argument above refers to you yourself being stupid then eh..
You are pushing these devices, YOU PROVE they are legitimate... since you can't, you'll drive this argument around in circles yet again... Thanks for proving my point :-D And thanks for the laugh.
aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
Just keep on laughing..why do we have to prove anything ? We are just Treasure Hunters that enjoy using these great Treasure Hunting devices. If you feel like you have been a victim of Fraud why have you not went to court ? Why..because you are the one who has no prove..Art
Just keep on laughing..why do we have to prove anything ? We are just Treasure Hunters that enjoy using these great Treasure Hunting devices. If you feel like you have been a victim of Fraud why have you not went to court ? Why..because you are the one who has no prove..Art
fenixdigger
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Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
Bless your little genius heart. Thank god you are able to take things apart and put them back together again. And calling people trash is showing a lot of class when you get a dose of truth.
I'm not pushing any device, but I will put in a plug for Minelab. I will push the fact that some of us can find things at a distance. Whether it is dowsing, guessing, psychic ability, or the devices, I don't care.
I'm sorry you don't have the ability to use one of these, I see your anger. It's ok.
I hate to tell you this and I'm sure it will bring a frenzy of rebuttal and denial, but you are not the smartest puppy in this litter.
Again it's no shame. Becoming a legend in your own mind is part of it. A lot of us understand. Your attitude makes it hard to have much sympathy or pity for your condition.
Bless your little genius heart. Thank god you are able to take things apart and put them back together again. And calling people trash is showing a lot of class when you get a dose of truth.
I'm not pushing any device, but I will put in a plug for Minelab. I will push the fact that some of us can find things at a distance. Whether it is dowsing, guessing, psychic ability, or the devices, I don't care.
I'm sorry you don't have the ability to use one of these, I see your anger. It's ok.
I hate to tell you this and I'm sure it will bring a frenzy of rebuttal and denial, but you are not the smartest puppy in this litter.
Again it's no shame. Becoming a legend in your own mind is part of it. A lot of us understand. Your attitude makes it hard to have much sympathy or pity for your condition.
fenixdigger
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Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
Let me add this. I don't hunt with a scientific team. Not my purpose. I have furnished what I felt was needed to show information to the people that mattered. How do you figure you are one of them Of all of the posters that have been full of themselves, you may get the award. But that is also part of it. I'm sorry I do not recognize your greatness. I doubt if anyone but you does.
Good luck with that.
Let me add this. I don't hunt with a scientific team. Not my purpose. I have furnished what I felt was needed to show information to the people that mattered. How do you figure you are one of them
Of all of the posters that have been full of themselves, you may get the award. But that is also part of it. I'm sorry I do not recognize your greatness. I doubt if anyone but you does.Good luck with that.
aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
~LT~
Is that why they are here ? They do not understand a simple idea like that…We tell people how tools work for us. I do not tear my equipment apart because I don’t want it to become non operative..I have found gold with 7 different LRL’s and MFD’s. I have also found gold with a CB radio, a walkie talkie, a cell phone and a calcuklator..No big deal and all I need to know is how to operate them..I have helped 1000’s of people with their LRL and MFD and Dowsing problems..Most of the problems are from not practicing and understanding the instructions..,.Art
~SWR~
Thank you SWR for the great reply…Does the validation of my parking stub with my tools in the car count ?
~LT~
Is that why they are here ? They do not understand a simple idea like that…We tell people how tools work for us. I do not tear my equipment apart because I don’t want it to become non operative..I have found gold with 7 different LRL’s and MFD’s. I have also found gold with a CB radio, a walkie talkie, a cell phone and a calcuklator..No big deal and all I need to know is how to operate them..I have helped 1000’s of people with their LRL and MFD and Dowsing problems..Most of the problems are from not practicing and understanding the instructions..,.Art
~SWR~
.
Thank you SWR for the great reply…Does the validation of my parking stub with my tools in the car count ?
fenixdigger
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Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
A skeptic is someone that is skeptical. Now does this include people that have mental problems, hidden agendas, a need to be in conflict, a need to elevate himself above mortals, a fear or inability to personally resolve the question?
Like I said, I hate it for you, but the lack of intense hands on effort puts it over your head. You consistently show your lack of knowledge almost every post. Want examples
What about the ring on that guy's hand I asked you about over and over? And OMG the Tic-Tac thing. ALL the true LRL users fell out laughing at you.
I, myself am a skeptic. I want to do it myself to believe it. I am skeptical that this is something you are really interested in. I think you have found a "playground" you can play in, never expose your self to real proof as had been offered to you in the past, and drag a few unsuspecting people into taking your side in a meaningless foray on trivial points, simply because you are very limited in what you CAN do that would be useful.
All the comments about Freudian issues are because they are so obvious, don't drag other people along on that ride.
A skeptic is someone that is skeptical. Now does this include people that have mental problems, hidden agendas, a need to be in conflict, a need to elevate himself above mortals, a fear or inability to personally resolve the question?
Like I said, I hate it for you, but the lack of intense hands on effort puts it over your head. You consistently show your lack of knowledge almost every post. Want examples
What about the ring on that guy's hand I asked you about over and over? And OMG the Tic-Tac thing. ALL the true LRL users fell out laughing at you.
I, myself am a skeptic. I want to do it myself to believe it. I am skeptical that this is something you are really interested in. I think you have found a "playground" you can play in, never expose your self to real proof as had been offered to you in the past, and drag a few unsuspecting people into taking your side in a meaningless foray on trivial points, simply because you are very limited in what you CAN do that would be useful.
All the comments about Freudian issues are because they are so obvious, don't drag other people along on that ride.
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
Re: Why skeptics doesn't show proof?
Bk from Tucson, I see that I missed quite a few insults, which are a losing equation in any event. While you aren't 'up to Judy's class' EE, you are far above ls. ted, pronghorns, and swr's class, no more insults if you wish to keep my respect for you, which you earned in other posts...
Stick to electronics, or philosophy.
Don Jose de La Mancha
Bk from Tucson, I see that I missed quite a few insults, which are a losing equation in any event. While you aren't 'up to Judy's class' EE, you are far above ls. ted, pronghorns, and swr's class, no more insults if you wish to keep my respect for you, which you earned in other posts...
Stick to electronics, or philosophy.
Don Jose de La Mancha
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