Why did Travis Tumlinson Fake the Stone Maps as a Hoax?

[markmar]

Wayne

These are maps made by researchers to fit in their area of interest . Are an abortion of the genuine stone maps .

 

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[markmar]

Hal

Better to play the " similarities " because the differences are what really they look .

 

[Azquester]

Bill, you really want to go there? Really?

Lets talk about deceptions, and newly created false legends. Not 50 year old ones. Lets talk about 9 month old ones. Leaving aside desecration of grave sites and mortal remains. We won't even get into that.

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Your "Travis Tumlinsons Circle Cross at Black Mountain Video 8" thread is still up. What exactly were you trying to accomplish with that? A false narrative At best, you were 100% dead wrong or..... something worse than using incorrect correlation. That little escapade had a life cycle of about 22 hours. And you are casting stones (pun intended) at me?

Truth, contrary to what some have said here, is not created. Truth isn't someone's assumptions that have been retold until they have become accepted truth. That's called theory. Real truth, that's what I'm looking for. It can only be told or found, not created. Seems to me there has been far too much creative truth making surrounding this story for far too long.

I'm listening to those closest to the source. Listening and fact checking to validate or eliminate. Somewhere in there is the "real" story. I'm doing the best I can to find it. And frankly, its far more fascinating than the story we have heard for eons. Just proves truth is stranger than fiction.

And now.......back to the bunker.

Are you the one that's serious? No Bunker for me I'm Closterfobic. If that's where you keep your couch I'm not interested in therapy thank you. False Narrative? Look in the mirror.

You have a propensity for becoming agitated when anyone questions the made up by Travis evidence that cannot in any way, shape or form be verified. We know the Barn Map is one of paper maps that came from the same famous family we now know helped Travis with his secret. With no way to verify any of this other than debunk it in the field we have another legends show.

That Video was made (It's still a good Video) back when we all thought the Maps were real. I've hunted that area before many times and if you like go up there and read his name for yourself there was no photo shopping involved. Travis we now know camped right across from this site. Someone had obviously played a prank before me but it wasn't I. If you think it was I say prove it. Disturbing Mortal Remains? I never disturbed a thing that even resembled someone's remains. But if your accusing me of being a grave robber report it. Not one thing that was there left that site. Not one thing was disturbed that would be deemed a vessel for human remains. It seems your guilty of creating a false narrative yourself.

I still have the uninterrupted video of the discovery of that name when I say it was someone's idea of a joke and cuss about it. As Treasure Hunters we all experience dead ends or pranks from the long history of people searching for fabricated evidence and in this case pranked evidence with fabricated stone or paper maps for a guide.

It seems that I've hit a nerve here and put you on the defensive but believe me when I say that shrine had nothing on or near it that said "MADE IN CHINA".



Except, maybe my clothing that's about it.

Oh, and maybe the gps and camera, phone, but that's it!

I..ah, forgot..my shoes, socks, belt, sunglasses, hat, head ban,
water bottles, billfold, scarf, compass, backpack, knife, blow up polly dolly, chapstick, and I swear that's all!!!

 

[cactusjumper]

I cannot comment further on that without betraying a trust.View attachment 1266666

Frank,

It's unfortunate that you are unable to share what you have learned with the rest of us. Will it all come out with Ryan's final product? At this point, your opinions are what I would most like to see.

Have you heard about the treasure hunter who is lost in New Mexico? Was he searching for a real treasure or only a story treasure?

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Lynda,

I did have some doubts about you at first, but know you are the real thing now.

Happy Birthday!

Joe

 

[markmar]

Lynda

Happy Birthday ! I wish you find some day the real truth behind the legend exploitation .

 

[Azquester]

Indeed it does CN,
And it makes me wonder why Garman used the other version, without the " squiggles", in his book, rather than the one labeled "Peralta Tesora Mappa" ??
The similarities are intriguing but I find the differences even more so.

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Hiker,

I believe that first map if reversed leads to one of the major mines at Goldfield. If you know where the "1847" is at you just reverse it and follow the outlines of the washes and it takes right there on Google Earth. Since the map shows water ways you reverse it. So you start from the 1847 marker and go from there. Since I discovered the 1847 marker years ago and know where it's at I just simply reversed it and it leads right to the mines. The start is the end and vice versa.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, I appreciate your insight. For whatever reason I've been the recipient of more than what I think is my fair share of suspicion and second guessing my motivations. From the day I first posted here I've been suspected of being everything from the reincarnation of banned members from long years past (in drag no less) to a Federal Agent hell bent on busting up the LDM cartel, and many masquerading character sorts in between. My life is far more mundane, trust me.

Why the questions? I'm told; because I knew to much. Well; wonder where I heard it. Its all here (and in other like forums) to read, with supporting documents, to any one who wants to spend the time to absorb it. I took that time and I did learn from good teachers. Not to put me on par with those that have lived it, but I did learn. There are new things I learn everyday. I realize that there is far more that I don't know then those things that I do. On my own I have bought books, made FOIA requests and talked with folks far and wide. Nice little accumulation of "stuff".

Is there anyone among us who doesn't have a pet theory on where the gold or treasure may be? I think we all do. That's what makes it all so darn interesting. I'm not coming after it, on that you can rest assured. Others may, and I wish them the very best of luck. For me tomorrow marks another birthday added to a pretty hefty stack I've already accumulated. I can hardly climb my back steps let alone the lofts of the Superstition Mountains. Wish that I could. There was a day for that but its far in my rear view mirror.

I have told everyone that asked the truth. Sometimes I really wondered why I needed to supply far more personal information about me, my background and why I was interested. But; I really can't think of anything I need to hide. I haven't lied to you or to anyone else. When you don't lie you don't have to worry about slip ups. I am not infallible. Far from it. I can misjudge something just like everyone else. I may be hard headed but I do listen. I have from time to time had to protect sources. Not for my sake, but for theirs. I do honor things told in confidence.

So far as whatever projects may be ongoing, you (collective you) will have to deal with that on whatever level makes you all comfortable. But; you will not stop it. That train has already left the station, with you or without you. Its high time that portion of the story was told. And told it will be. Regardless of whose feathers it ruffles. I (and others) have tried to be inclusive with what can be shared. Rather than enjoying being included you think that's some sort of trick. That's very sad. On that subject I am and will be hence forth radio silent. I do feel its like the student showing their teacher the science project and for whatever the reason the teacher feels threatened. Its a spoiled moment for all involved. Very Sad. Where I do draw the line is that when things are posted that I know to be total hogwash its going to get a rebuttal from me. Just don't dare ask me for sources.

Your personal life is yours to do with as you please and the details of it should really have no place here unless you feel some need to share. In private conversations your posts, you (old), your thoughts and ideas, receive quite a bit of praise. Where things changed is when you choose to become a mouthpiece for a member that left on bad terms. So, when I read your posts, and find partial explanations and ideas that still have to be run thru the higher ups, I don't know what to think. Is this old and if it is, why the hell is she running her own ideas past anyone? I want to read her words and learn about her discoveries, not others who, quite honestly, should be here themselves, promoting/defending their own agendas/ideas.

No one accused you of trickery old but I do wonder why you described it that way. I pointed out that the effort is no longer exclusively historical research and now has an active search component. That's a conflict for many on this site. Remember old, this is simply a story and one with an unfavorable ending, until its not. And, for a few dedicated hunters, its already not, only they maintain a level of discretion and modesty avoiding the pitfalls that seem to frustrate you and the team. Its a balancing & timing act.


I am not sure that there are any students or teachers here. Just people with experiences and those who want to read about the most curious ones.

 

[Not Peralta]

Amigo'sDid you ever consider were travis got his info from ( IF ) he created the stone maps, or not.NP

 

[cactusjumper]

Amigo'sDid you ever consider were travis got his info from ( IF ) he created the stone maps, or not.NP

I believe everyone here, has considered that question. My own conclusion, is that he got the bulk of his information from friends in the Apache Junction area. I become more convinced each time new information is presented.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[sdcfia]

Frank,

It's unfortunate that you are unable to share what you have learned with the rest of us. Will it all come out with Ryan's final product? At this point, your opinions are what I would most like to see.

Have you heard about the treasure hunter who is lost in New Mexico? Was he searching for a real treasure or only a story treasure?

Take care,

Joe

There's little reason to doubt the voracity of Forrest Fenn's hidden treasure. Fenn retired from an Air Force career back in the 70s or 80s and moved to Santa Fe, where he collected and traded Indian art, becoming a well-known, wealthy and respected gallery owner. He was also an avid outdoorsman who loved exploring remote southwestern locales. He was diagnosed with cancer ca 1990, and thankful for his successful life up to then, he decided to hide a chest full of gold and jewels in a remote western location, and provide clues to its discovery. Whomever found it would then own it. Fortunately for Fenn, he was cured of his cancer and then put his treasure chest project on the back burner.

About 2010, Fenn was becoming quite elderly and resurrected his planned treasure hunt project. He wrote an autobiography that included a poem that contained the cryptic clues that would lead to the hidden chest, the contents of which were listed (a million or two dollars worth). One of his prime motivations by this time was to spark more of an interest in exploring the outdoors, which he had always coveted but he felt was being neglected by a new generation of electronic-focused people. The poem and hunt drew little interest until the media picked up on it a couple years later. Since then, a bit of a cult following has emerged, with a significant number of searchers trying to solve the puzzle. Fenn has occasionally provided additional clues online to help the searchers, none of whom apparently seem to have been close to finding the prize. The poem is not simple, but many of the searchers seemingly are.

There's no reason to believe Fenn did not hide the treasure, although many disgruntled and unsuccessful searchers have accused him. Fenn's life, character, business dealings and associates don't reveal any guile in his life, and he certainly had enough money to set up the search.

Can the same be said about the "Peralta Stone Maps" treasure? You decide.

 

[Hal Croves]

I believe everyone here, has considered that question. My own conclusion, is that he got the bulk of his information from friends in the Apache Junction area. I become more convinced each time new information is presented.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

From what I have been reading, you are not alone.
I would like to see you prove it thou.

The one thing that would end all the doubt and have everyone on board would be conclusive proof that Travis carved the stone maps. A photo of them half finished or in their work-space being carved, the tools, a letter of admission by Travis (not in the manuscript?), anything other than memories and opinion. That's all it would take. I may have missed it in the videos but I did not find that on the timeline. The rest is secondary.

 

[somehiker]

somehiker,
You have me on the edge of my seat. Would you please write more about the differences and why they intrigue you?
Thank You.

The knife is one example. One being a single edged type, as is the one found in the midst of a native petroglyph panel at a location within the southern Superstition watershed, and the other image that of a bi-facial dagger, similar to a very faint petroglyph found much deeper into the range....also with an 1847.



Garman also gave us this to ponder.....

which may be related to this.... View attachment Map G.bmp....since both begin at the Gila River.

 

[somehiker]

Amigo'sDid you ever consider were travis got his info from ( IF ) he created the stone maps, or not.NP

As I had suggested long ago, and before you became a contributor with your "Stone Maps lead to Spirit Mountain" and old "mission " photo claims, it is now well established that Travis began his own search with maps and other information from his grandfather's collection. However, he may have been led astray by ... "contributions" ... from others he met along the way.

 

[deducer]

SH, where did map G come from? I hadn't seen that one before.

 

[txtea]

Happy Birthday!

 

[somehiker]

SH, where did map G come from? I hadn't seen that one before.

I'll e-mail it later.
A bit behind with my mail though...

 

[markmar]

Now back to the real maps . I post an aerial photo of the region which is depicted on the stone Cross map in the red rectangle . The photo is up side down the Cross because we see better what have remained from the circle in circle sign .



In the white rectangle is the treasure site . And now , a photo of what is in the white rectangle

 

[cactusjumper]

From what I have been reading, you are not alone.
I would like to see you prove it thou.

The one thing that would end all the doubt and have everyone on board would be conclusive proof that Travis carved the stone maps. A photo of them half finished or in their work-space being carved, the tools, a letter of admission by Travis (not in the manuscript?), anything other than memories and opinion. That's all it would take. I may have missed it in the videos but I did not find that on the timeline. The rest is secondary.

Victor,

I don't, for a minute, believe any such "evidence" exists. I am going by what good friends have told me. I know folks hate that claim, but my sources lived through the history. They, unlike the family and Ryan, have no real dog in the fight.

Where are you in this thing Jesuit treasure?

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

Victor,

I don't, for a minute, believe any such "evidence" exists. I am going by what good friends have told me. I know folks hate that claim, but my sources lived through the history. They, unlike the family and Ryan, have no real dog in the fight.

Where are you in this thing Jesuit treasure?

Good luck,

Joe

That's the Achilles heel in all this, a story pulled together from educated guesses. How could it not be? It is, in my opinion, illogical for there not to be some form of physical evidence to support the idea that Travis carved the stone maps. Its the center of an argument that has no anchor. The rest seems like a distraction to the one thing that I am interested in. If Travis carved the stone maps and if it can be proven, bloody hell, now is the time to get happy about sharing. Prove it. When, where, how, and a better shot at why? Please.

That's all it would take.

Where am I? I only know this. People have been living in the area of the Superstitions for a long time. If there is/was accessible surface gold in them hills, and if it was in demand, someone would have found it and slowly pecked away at it, at some point over the years. Later, early explorers like La Barge would have noted the remains of any Spanish and or Mexican mining. That information would have been past down to the next generation, to perhaps La Barge's son, Captain La Barge and perhaps, a few of his closest passengers heading west. Were the Jesuits there? While it's not out of the question, I certainly have not seen any evidence to support the idea.


If you want to know the truth, all these years I have been searching for Flibbertigibbetts.
Jeff Adams saw them.

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Whoa tolda youa toa hidea ita ina youa cappa?
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