Why did Travis Tumlinson Fake the Stone Maps as a Hoax?

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Bill,

This is my first post on your tread, and maybe my only one. I have quit posting much since everyone just seems to be fanning each others brain farts without any regards to facts, and history.

Travis did not fake the stone maps as a hoax. The originals that he found are still there in the museum. As I have said before, they speak for themselves. Garry's work only proves that Travis was incapable of creating the PSM's.

Travis's work "Challenge For Superstition Gold" is being butchered by assumptions, and false recollections from relatives that were to young to know what was going on, or what they saw.

Those involved in the story's "research", should pay attention to what Travis wrote instead of claiming to know what he was thinking. Travis said the stones he found "represent a map". He never claimed to be given a map to find the stones. The word "represent", means the stones "constitute, amount to, add up to, account for, form, make up, compose, establish, or create". Meaning that the four stones he found, together are a map of a certain area within the Superstitions.

Of course the so called "ground map" has things that are not on the PSM's. Travis was not going to carry the PSM's in his own search. The ground map can only be his rendition, or understanding of the PSM's, and leads to no gold since he could not understand the PSM's.

I ask anyone to prove me wrong, and show me one fact, just one that is not based on assumptions. The "Peralta Tesora Mappa" shows to have Robert Tumlinson's writing all over it. That is what he sold to Garman since he didn't have the PSM's.

I will bring up another thread to show that recollections are being made up.

Homar P. Olivarez

 

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[motel6.5]

The original story I read years ago,was ,Tumlinson stopped to take a break from a road trip,and while walking the desert found the stone tablits sticking out of the ground.This says to me the Viedo I watched showing the square cut trench and the round circle evacuation is most likely post Tumlinson,probably by a few years if not more. Can"t say what was found in the trench, however it looks like a wagon wheel or 2, may have came out of the round. The older surmised story of a Indian attack on a Cart or Wagon,may very well be true. If so than I would say,and I am now closer to believeing the Stones are authentic...Before Queen Creek was built uit was full of mystery like the Silver Antilope,that appeared when the sands shifted.

 

[Old]

>>>>>>>>Where am I? I only know this. People have been living in the area of the Superstitions for a long time. If there is/was accessible surface gold in them hills, and if it was in demand, someone would have found it and slowly pecked away at it, at some point over the years. Later, early explorers like La Barge would have noted the remains of any Spanish and or Mexican mining. That information would have been past down to the next generation, to perhaps La Barge's son, Captain La Barge and perhaps, a few of his closest passengers heading west. Were the Jesuits there? While it's not out of the question, I certainly have not seen any evidence to support the idea.


If you want to know the truth, all these years I have been searching for Flibbertigibbetts.
Jeff Adams saw them.<<<<<<<<<<<

In peril of being a flibbertifibbett, I won’t post the long narrative necessary to lay it out for you.

Short answer: Yes, there were accessible minerals, including gold in the area. They were pecked away at, processed and stored (and I believe we can assume, in some volume transported out of the area). The known example pre dates Anglo entry and did not involve Native mining practices. That leaves relatively few candidates for who did the mining.

Those that pecked out those minerals left their forensic foot print. It’s documented by professional archeologist in both written and photographic record. The place is eligible for recognition on the National Register of Historic Places. I doubt we will see that designation posted in our life time. Pity, and a disservice to history.

As to La Barge and others knowledge of such? Can’t help you there. Evidence would indicate they were not aware of such.

Lynda

 

[sgtfda]

Howdy Bill,

This is my first post on your tread, and maybe my only one. I have quit posting much since everyone just seems to be fanning each others brain farts without any regards to facts, and history.

Travis did not fake the stone maps as a hoax. The originals that he found are still there in the museum. As I have said before, they speak for themselves. Garry's work only proves that Travis was incapable of creating the PSM's.

Travis's work "Challenge For Superstition Gold" is being butchered by assumptions, and false recollections from relatives that were to young to know what was going on, or what they saw.

Those involved in the story's "research", should pay attention to what Travis wrote instead of claiming to know what he was thinking. Travis said the stones he found "represent a map". He never claimed to be given a map to find the stones. The word "represent", means the stones "constitute, amount to, add up to, account for, form, make up, compose, establish, or create". Meaning that the four stones he found, together are a map of a certain area within the Superstitions.

Of course the so called "ground map" has things that are not on the PSM's. Travis was not going to carry the PSM's in his own search. The ground map can only be his rendition, or understanding of the PSM's, and leads to no gold since he could not understand the PSM's.

I ask anyone to prove me wrong, and show me one fact, just one that is not based on assumptions. The "Peralta Tesora Mappa" shows to have Robert Tumlinson's writing all over it. That is what he sold to Garman since he didn't have the PSM's.

I will bring up another thread to show that recollections are being made up.

Homar P. Olivarez

Homer on my last visit to the museum George pointed out the casting bubbles on the back of the trail maps. Sorry they do not have the original stones.

 

[Hal Croves]

>>>>>>>>Where am I? I only know this. People have been living in the area of the Superstitions for a long time. If there is/was accessible surface gold in them hills, and if it was in demand, someone would have found it and slowly pecked away at it, at some point over the years. Later, early explorers like La Barge would have noted the remains of any Spanish and or Mexican mining. That information would have been past down to the next generation, to perhaps La Barge's son, Captain La Barge and perhaps, a few of his closest passengers heading west. Were the Jesuits there? While it's not out of the question, I certainly have not seen any evidence to support the idea.


If you want to know the truth, all these years I have been searching for Flibbertigibbetts.
Jeff Adams saw them.<<<<<<<<<<<

In peril of being a flibbertifibbett, I won’t post the long narrative necessary to lay it out for you.

Short answer: Yes, there were accessible minerals, including gold in the area. They were pecked away at, processed and stored (and I believe we can assume, in some volume transported out of the area). The known example pre dates Anglo entry and did not involve Native mining practices. That leaves relatively few candidates for who did the mining.

Those that pecked out those minerals left their forensic foot print. It’s documented by professional archeologist in both written and photographic record. The place is eligible for recognition on the National Register of Historic Places. I doubt we will see that designation posted in our life time. Pity, and a disservice to history.

As to La Barge and others knowledge of such? Can’t help you there. Evidence would indicate they were not aware of such.

Lynda

I don't know what a flibbertifibbett is but the Flibbertigibbetts were a "Dwarfish and Impish Race of Arizonians." They are mentioned in several early stories about the Superstitions but not by name. I hope to be the first ever to interview one with an iPad. Happy birthday old.

I am not sure what the known example is but it sounds like you might. If it is a precontact sample, how could it possibly have been mined in something other than the traditional native way? Make a fire, heat the rock, then smash it or throw cold water onto it. Or continually peck at it with anything harder than the surrounding material.

Anyway, yes, the site perhaps should be registered historic as long as the public continues to have reasonable and responsible access.

 

[Hal Croves]

Homer on my last visit to the museum George pointed out the casting bubbles on the back of the trail maps. Sorry they do not have the original stones.

George may be correct. No undercuts to contend with when pulling a mold there but the thing that might give it away is the consistent color throughout both stones. No variation or modeling. Exactly what one would expect to see in cast stone.

That's easy enough to confirm with access or decent photographs.

 

[Weaversneedle]

Homar, have you ever been to the museum and examined the stones they have on display?

 

[somehiker]

View attachment DA Inc Stones.bmp....from Gary's site....http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...Arizona Highways.pdf#page=3&zoom=auto,-69,393

The stones which DA inc. examined were not castings apparently. So a different set entirely.
The HP stone was identified as Coconino sandstone, and the Map stones a different type of sandstone also found in Az.

 

[coazon de oro]

Homer on my last visit to the museum George pointed out the casting bubbles on the back of the trail maps. Sorry they do not have the original stones.

Maybe on your next visit to the museum you can tell George that those aren't "casting bubbles" on the back of the trail maps. Sandstone, and other rocks get those from organic material, sorry Frank.

 

[Ponchosportal]

I wonder how many people have tried to follow those stones .................................... and met their demise in the process?

 

[sgtfda]

Maybe on your next visit to the museum you can tell George that those aren't "casting bubbles" on the back of the trail maps. Sandstone, and other rocks get those from organic material, sorry Frank.

George thought they were cast Adobe. Considering his position he should have a good idea on what's going on. Homar do you believe the stone map legend? As with all legends there is a little fact and fiction.

 

[coazon de oro]

View attachment 1267298....from Gary's site....http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...Arizona Highways.pdf#page=3&zoom=auto,-69,393

The stones which DA inc. examined were not castings apparently. So a different set entirely.
The HP stone was identified as Coconino sandstone, and the Map stones a different type of sandstone also found in Az.

Now why would anyone claim they came from Texas?

 

[somehiker]

I wonder how many people have tried to follow those stones .................................... and met their demise in the process?

In many ways it's an extreme sport, so less than base jumping I'll bet.

 

[Ponchosportal]

In many ways it's an extreme sport, so less than base jumping I'll bet.

At least in Base Jumping it's over quickly. When I say "demise" God only knows what that entailed.

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar, have you ever been to the museum and examined the stones they have on display?

Howdy Weaversneedle, and welcome to TreasureNet. No I have never personally examined the stones, nor have I ever set foot in the Superstitions, and I don't have a college degree either.

 

[somehiker]

At least in Base Jumping it's over quickly. When I say "demise" God only knows what that entailed.

Ya mean like all those Spanish guys who lost their heads in the first " Legends" tv show ??

That was only because they were using the Peralta Tesora Mappa....

Bad juju.

 

[Weaversneedle]

Howdy Weaversneedle, and welcome to TreasureNet. No I have never personally examined the stones, nor have I ever set foot in the Superstitions, and I don't have a college degree either.

I too am minus a college degree but common sense says that an intelligent assessment of the stones can only be made by examining them in person

 

[Hal Croves]

Maybe on your next visit to the museum you can tell George that those aren't "casting bubbles" on the back of the trail maps. Sandstone, and other rocks get those from organic material, sorry Frank.

View attachment 1267306
​

Unfortunately, the best photo that I have of any bubbles in the back of the Trail Stones. The seam, where the two halves of a mold meet is typically where bubbles form in the cast. Here, there would have been a ridge running completely around the edges of the stones. That would have been sanded smooth after the cast hardened. But, bubbles can happen anywhere if the mold isn't properly cleaned, the cast not agitated or placed under vacuum, or the material poured to quickly.

Hard to say without a close up.

 

[Old]

Thanks for the BD wishes Hal.

flibbertigibbet: Oh gosh, that's funny. My grandmother was from Yorkshire, UK. Flibbertigibbet is an unflattering term, usually reserved for a young lady which exhibits frivolous, silly and excessive talking. Dwarfish/impish, you say? .......hmmm. I am rather on the short side, although my feet do reach the floor. I'm open for interviews any time you want to bring you IPAD <LOL>

As to the site. Yes, I have the specifics, diagrams, and the full reports. Pre Anglo meaning before the predominately English heritage Americans moved west. Site could be Euro Spanish or Spanish/Mexican or (my favorite) other Mediterranean based nationalities.

 

[coazon de oro]

George thought they were cast Adobe. Considering his position he should have a good idea on what's going on. Homar do you believe the stone map legend? As with all legends there is a little fact and fiction.

Howdy Frank,

I don't know what kind of position George may be in, but you couldn't grind the map side smooth if it was adobe. There are many legends that have been created on the PSM's, but yes the original story of Travis finding the PSM's like he said if true.

Homar