Wagoner's Lost Ledge

[SPARTANOC]

Speaking of Hewitt..........and Millsite.....
Get a 1900 USGS map of the area and find the horse.
May give some "fun spots" to investigate, if you're into seeing faces in maps View attachment 2179729View attachment 2179728

Okay - that's just too cool! Of course, I'm easily amused....

 

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[cuzimloony]

Okay - that's just too cool! Of course, I'm easily amused....

Notice that the horses "eyes" are Millsite Canyon and Buzzard's Roost (not labled on the map), using roads, rivers and contours to form the shapes. Buzzard's Roost is the name of a Jesse James hideout in Oklahoma, making an appearance here in the Sups.
Well, if your "brain's eye" is creative enough, you can see a 5-pointed star on Buzzards Roost if you go there.
It's not a small star you have to be close to see. You can see it from miles out with binos.
The other eye is Millsite Canyon........

Im not going to point it out. I'm hoping you can see it w/o help. When I show this to local dutch-hunters, they see nothing. Well, they say they see nothing.........
I do, but maybe it's bias and an over-active imagination. Does anyone else see it?

 

[SPARTANOC]

Notice that the horses "eyes" are Millsite Canyon and Buzzard's Roost (not labled on the map), using roads, rivers and contours to form the shapes. Buzzard's Roost is the name of a Jesse James hideout in Oklahoma, making an appearance here in the Sups.
Well, if your "brain's eye" is creative enough, you can see a 5-pointed star on Buzzards Roost if you go there.
It's not a small star you have to be close to see. You can see it from miles out with binos.
The other eye is Millsite Canyon........ View attachment 2179736
Im not going to point it out. I'm hoping you can see it w/o help. When I show this to local dutch-hunters, they see nothing. Well, they say they see nothing.........
I do, but maybe it's bias and an over-active imagination. Does anyone else see it?

I believe I can see it - I'm taking in consideration, that your reference to the STAR is for the Waltz story?

 

[cuzimloony]

I believe I can see it - I'm taking in consideration, that your reference to the STAR is for the Waltz story?

Well, yes and no. Maybe
My current running theory(?) idea(?) is that the Wagoner and the Dutchman, (and other stories written by other authors) are "planted" stories. You know...."Russian prostitutes and pee tapes," to distract you from what's really going on. A large group hiding LARGE money, so large they have a team of deceptive things going on.
But..... incase that theory is wrong, Im hiking and looking into all that I can, because Ive been wrong many, many times before.
I didnt think the Wagoner could do it. Now, I know he couldn't, as described by Barry Storm. So, I dont need to spend time on that part of the story. It is clearly either a fanciful story, an overactive imaginative author who only slightly changes things for personal interests, or purposeful deception as part of a larger initiative. I think the latter.
So, if Barry Storm were working somehow deceptively for "corporate" interests (and I am pulling that out of my wahzoo as I have zero evidence for that. It is a hunch I need to flesh out...), then this story relates to Buzzards Roost because its all part of the same show.
BUT, I may be alone here so, with respect to OP, because I dont want to derail this thread with my pet theories anymore, (Im starting to feel guilty), Ill do my best to refrain from bringing it up here and stick to the classic Wagoners themes. That said, Im including one last pic of Buzzards Roost from a book published in 2003. I think some erosion may have happened between then and now, so, it may be clearer in this pic.

I AM comfortable saying, however, I think Barry Storm may have had reasons for pulling the location from Millsite Canyon and putting it in the LaBarge area.....and as such am comfortable discussing Millsite in the context of Wagoners.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Well, yes and no. Maybe
My current running theory(?) idea(?) is that the Wagoner and the Dutchman, (and other stories written by other authors) are "planted" stories. You know...."Russian prostitutes and pee tapes," to distract you from what's really going on. A large group hiding LARGE money, so large they have a team of deceptive things going on.
But..... incase that theory is wrong, Im hiking and looking into all that I can, because Ive been wrong many, many times before.
I didnt think the Wagoner could do it. Now, I know he couldn't, as described by Barry Storm. So, I dont need to spend time on that part of the story. It is clearly either a fanciful story, an overactive imaginative author who only slightly changes things for personal interests, or purposeful deception as part of a larger initiative. I think the latter.
So, if Barry Storm were working somehow deceptively for "corporate" interests (and I am pulling that out of my wahzoo as I have zero evidence for that. It is a hunch I need to flesh out...), then this story relates to Buzzards Roost because its all part of the same show.
BUT, I may be alone here so, with respect to OP, because I dont want to derail this thread with my pet theories anymore, (Im starting to feel guilty), Ill do my best to refrain from bringing it up here and stick to the classic Wagoners themes.
I AM comfortable saying, however, I think Barry Storm may have had reasons for pulling the location from Millsite Canyon and putting it in the LaBarge area.....and as such am comfortable discussing Millsite in the context of Wagoners.

Cuzimloony

As the topic of Wagoner's story is this thread's subject - being the sole focus here, I would agree to narrow things towards just the Wagoner's ideas, clues, thoughts, etc. We don't want to "pollute" this thread and we should always respect the OP.

If you want to elaborate on the Waltz legend, your ideas and possible finds - I say create a new thread, so as to continue the thoughts and ideas of who, what, where, why and how on the subject.

I'm game for any discussions on the matter.....

My two focuses personally have been Senner's gold AND the LDM (or any Peralta mine for that matter).

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Cuzimloony

As the topic of Wagoner's story is this thread's subject - being the sole focus here, I would agree to narrow things towards just the Wagoner's ideas, clues, thoughts, etc. We don't want to "pollute" this thread and we should always respect the OP.

If you want to elaborate on the Waltz legend, your ideas and possible finds - I say create a new thread, so as to continue the thoughts and ideas of who, what, where, why and how on the subject.

I'm game for any discussions on the matter.....

My two focuses personally have been Senner's gold AND the LDM (or any Peralta mine for that matter).

-SpartanOC

Sure and agreed. Im long winded and high energy My thoughts. The Wagoner story is fake, as told by Barry Storm, who, in my opinion is writing deceptively for "reasons."
Which..........leads me to ask, what about the Tom Kollenborn story? Same place right? A team of men would totally be up to this.
It seems to me though, Tom MAY have had a habit of writing about stories only after he found the loot OR possibly altering enough of the story to protect his interests.......... See what sgt says (Toms best friend I believe) in the Senners Gold thread. That is not a slight against Tom and his life's work. I have nothing but the upmost respect for him.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Sure and agreed. Im long winded and high energy My thoughts. The Wagoner story is fake, as told by Barry Storm, who, in my opinion is writing deceptively for "reasons."
Which..........leads me to ask, what about the Tom Kollenborn story? Same place right? A team of men would totally be up to this.
It seems to me though, Tom MAY have had a habit of writing about stories only after he found the loot OR possibly altering enough of the story to protect his interests.......... See what sgt says (Toms best friend I believe) in the Senners Gold thread. That is not a slight against Tom and his life's work. I have nothing but the upmost respect for him.

Absolutely agree. Tom's work is amazing and as I'm concerned, it's legendary work. As that statement settles, I have the perspective that Tom wouldn't reveal anything of importance, unless he already went there OR he's still looking in an area of interest. Like you said regarding the Senner story - as it appears Tom knew more, but for personal reasons left out some of the most important details. And I believe the biggest detail left out, is there's more of Senner's Gold out there to be found.

Let me know if or when you create a new thread on the LDM story and I'll jump on to discuss things....

As for the High Energy comment - I too am exploding with energetic curiosity myself

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Another video editing pic. If you guys like seeing shapes and designs in rocks/boulders, Spanish markings or pointer stone alignments, whatever, I think you'll like this trek. Ive never really edited a video like this before so, it's kind of tee-dee-us, as they say. In the first vid, you're really only going to get the walk from (almost) Trap Canyon to just past Whiskey Spring at just under an hour with HEAVY editing (most of which I just speed things up a bit and add music so you can still see the whole trail...fart noises over curse words, ya know, im still young at heart)...
Anyhow, back to editing.

 

[cuzimloony]

Back to Barry Storm. My initial question was "Was he a member of any political/fraternal orgs OR did he work at a newspaper."
Im starting to look into him and......he DID work at various newspapers and his first book was published by, a politician, Barry Goldwater, a man who spent a LOT of time pointing and saying "look over here" at the main Superstition mountain area, just like Storm did.
Also, Storm said in a letter to the Desert Magazine in 1945: "

Storm wrote the following in a letter to the editor of Desert Magazine in 1945 after the publication of one of his articles:

“Apr 1945 Dear Randall: Many people are writing about Wagoner's Lost Ledge, etc. To save a lot of pointless conversation in which I am now having to engage, might I state in an open letter that I am not now conducting treasure hunting expeditions, that I usually prefer to work alone, have no maps for sale, and that gold in the natural way of things does not come sticking out of the rocks in large yellow gobs, that the claim I recently recorded is not on the Lost Dutchman but on some nickel-chromite-titanium ore, and that gold ore usually runs over $200 per ton before gold is even visible in it. In short, those persons who are seriously going in for treasure hunting hereabouts had better first acquire some knowledge of geology and of mineralogical chemical reactions if they would stand a chance of success.

So it seems......not even Storm believed in the Ledge....... "gold in the natural way of things does not come sticking out of the rocks in large yellow gobs..."
Hand cobbed ore by the side of the road
Hand cobbed ore by the side of the road
Hand cobbed ore by the side of the road.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Exactly right.

Gold ore with visible values is pretty rich in OPT. This is pretty rare.

The way these legends read, there were ledges of gold with not only visible, but with pretty large grains, on the surface at various locations in the Superstition Mountains.

Not very likely.

A few mines in the area, though, reportedly had some pockets of very rich gold ore that were encountered beneath the surface.

Wagoner's hand cobbed ore, shot through with visible gold, IMO is most likely from a mine, and not pried out of a surface deposit.

If one was selling rich gold ore that they knew to be high-graded or recovered from some cache somewhere, the most likely story would be "Oh, I found this outcrop of gold out in the desert and pried all these chunks off."

 

[SPARTANOC]

Exactly right.

Gold ore with visible values is pretty rich in OPT. This is pretty rare.

The way these legends read, there were ledges of gold with not only visible, but with pretty large grains, on the surface at various locations in the Superstition Mountains.

Not very likely.

A few mines in the area, though, reportedly had some pockets of very rich gold ore that were encountered beneath the surface.

Wagoner's hand cobbed ore, shot through with visible gold, IMO is most likely from a mine, and not pried out of a surface deposit.

If one was selling rich gold ore that they knew to be high-graded or recovered from some cache somewhere, the most likely story would be "Oh, I found this outcrop of gold out in the desert and pried all these chunks off."

You nailed it! I would probably say the same thing - "I found it just lying around..."

 

[cuzimloony]

Exactly right.

Gold ore with visible values is pretty rich in OPT. This is pretty rare.

The way these legends read, there were ledges of gold with not only visible, but with pretty large grains, on the surface at various locations in the Superstition Mountains.

Not very likely.

A few mines in the area, though, reportedly had some pockets of very rich gold ore that were encountered beneath the surface.

Wagoner's hand cobbed ore, shot through with visible gold, IMO is most likely from a mine, and not pried out of a surface deposit.

If one was selling rich gold ore that they knew to be high-graded or recovered from some cache somewhere, the most likely story would be "Oh, I found this outcrop of gold out in the desert and pried all these chunks off."

Good points. Very good points.
Speaking of mines, I think, if my conspiracy minded brain is right, that some of those may still be being illegally worked due to the walkie talkie signal I got. I know I know....that signal could have come from anywhere, BUT I was in an area where I could SEE multiple mines/caves (and walkie talkie signals are notoriously short lived) so..... Im leaning toward the idea that someone was IN a mine in the area and their signal got out just when I happened to be scanning. I have this moment recorded on my gopro and may eventually post it.
Maybe I should make a plan to go back and investigate those mines/caves.
I need to look out for mountain lions though. They live/bed in those places......
Ill probably hit up Millsite before Whiskey Springs again though........ I want to dust off (or get dust on) my Gold Monster.......