Tumacacori Mission Mines RE: Sister Micaela Molina Document

[Oroblanco]

Listening and drinking one of the cups of coffee oro.

Don Jose de La mancha

Sorry about the Kenya AA having run out, will Brand X do?

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hi oro, hey that's not bad at all. ----filler up again \_ _/.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. I am curious as to why they would make a map in Texas to a mineral deposit in Az? Highly illogical. First one has to find the map in Texas, decipher it, then try to fit it into one of the western (?) areas. ?

Sides, I am a bit prejudiced on Tayopa, Los Remedios, El Paramo, Arroyo Caudaloso, etc.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Buenas dias mis companeros: RW you posted-->it represents a place in the Southwest, the homeland of the Aztecs.
*************
Joe posted -->If by "Southwest" you mean New Mexico, (White Sands) we would be in agreement.
*****************
Hmm, may I ask why you believe this?

Don Jose de La Mancha (el sceptical Santito)

 

[Oroblanco]

Don Jose, afortunado descubridor de la dorado perdido Tayopa wrote

p.s. I am curious as to why they would make a map in Texas to a mineral deposit in Az? Highly illogical. First one has to find the map in Texas, decipher it, then try to fit it into one of the western (?) areas.

Not to hijack his answer as I am certain RWLJ is perfectly capable of posting an intelligent reply, just an observation on the mysterious Spider Rocks; I am not even convinced that they are "treasure maps" at all. The markings on them may well indicate their true purpose is as a sort of calendar, perhaps for making sure of the dates of certain Catholic holy days in fact. We treasure hunters all too often come across mysterious markings and leap to the conclusion that such markings MUST be some kind of treasure cyphers, when there are multiple alternate explanations in many cases. The Spider Rocks are but one example of this, and yes it is rather illogical for treasure maps found in Texas to be related to southern Arizona/northern Sonora.

Oroblanco

PS - time for another refill? My cup has somehow gone dry so thought I would offer, I can be quite generous with internet coffee!

 

[Crow]

Hello All

I could used some of that coffee My tired old brain has forgotten the exact details of a legend associated with Tumacacori Mission.

It was wrtten in a book dated about 1860? I cannot remember the name. How ever the tale goes as such that Father Kino was inspecting the mission near Tupac and was presented with a silver salt shacker mined from a local mine and cast during his stay as a gift?

Please forgive haziness.... But I am sure some could enlighten me a little better than my poor memory recalls the detais of the story?

Thanking those who come to the rescue of tired old brain in advance.

Crow

 

[cactusjumper]

Crow,

The story is said to have come from Judge, William H. Barnes. Dated closer to 1890.

From Roy Decker, in another thread, we have this statement:

"The Salero silver mine is named for a 'salt-cellar' - for in colonial days, a salt-shaker was unknown, the condiment being served in small dishes made for holding it."

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Crow]

Thanks for the clarification Joe.


Crow

 

[Oroblanco]

Crow, this cup is for you -

The Salero mine story goes that a bishop was taking a tour of the frontier missions, and made a comment on the lack of a salt cellar at the table, or that the one they had was a rude thing perhaps carved of wood or made of clay. Indians were then sent out to locate a silver vein, and a salt cellar was cast from the vein they discovered, and this was presented to the Bishop. Supposedly (and I have not been able to trace this part) the salt cellar still exists in either Spain or the Vatican.

Of course some disbelieve the whole story, although some portions can be documented. We had discussed it earlier in another thread, a rather lengthy debate as to whether the legends of Jesuit treasures and mines are real or basically the inventions of treasure writers. The first post relating to the Salero is at:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,286969.msg2067778.html#msg2067778

A search through the old newspaper archives, a fair number of which are now online free, will turn up several different variations of the story. The one posted in that link dates to 1865, author was Henry Mills Alden. One version has the incident occur at Tubac which did not have an Indian mission but did have a mission church (visita) for the benefit of the soldiers and their families, so it is possible that it did occur there.

Sorry for drifting off-topic, the Salero is not mentioned on the Molina document.
Oroblanco

 

[Crow]

Thanks Oroblanco I,ll enjoy that cup of coffee.

And thanks for the link. Very informative and thanks to everyone else who has made very interesting comments on the topic.

In regards to Molina Document presented. Is there any orginal documents accesssable?

Please forgive me I am a little weak on the history of this topic..

Thanks again in Advance.

Crow

 

[cactusjumper]

Crow,

I don't believe the original Molina document has ever been available for authetication, or viewing. Lots of red flags on that "artifact".

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Crow wrote

In regards to Molina Document presented. Is there any orginal documents accesssable?

I see that our mutual friend Joe has already answered this; however if you are curious, Mike (Gollum) posted an image of the "original" in the first post of the thread:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,41291.msg292754.html#msg292754

He also included much of the argument pro and con. A major problem is that the "original" we debate over is not the original, it was a handwritten notation, not intended to be an exact reproduction. There are other problems with the dates too. Until someone can travel to Spain and search the archives there, we can probably never know for sure. John D. Mitchell is usually pointed to as the person who made up the document. Mike also kindly included an image of the "map" (diagram) of the mines of Tumacacori as well, which also has a shady origin.

It is a fascinating period of history, and much debated as you can see from our many posts in several threads on it.

More coffee?

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Crow,

One of the red flags on the document, is the use of the name, "Santa Cruz River", which was not known by that name at the supposed time the document was written. Slight boo-boo there.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Crow,

One of the red flags on the document, is the use of the name, "Santa Cruz River", which was not known by that name at the supposed time the document was written. Slight boo-boo there.

Take care,

Joe

As we do not know what name is on the original, it would be futile to point to that use of a name as proof of a fraud. The person who made the copy we do see, may have used the name in replacement for what is on the original. No way of knowing.

Oroblanco



EDIT

It is equally futile to argue for the document being authentic, for the same reasons. No copy can be considered equivalent to the original, so we can't establish this Molina document either way. Just thought I should add that, after my last statement made is sound as if it must be considered authentic, until proven otherwise which is not what I meant.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I see! So the person who copied the original, did it perfectly in all other aspects of names, but decided to add Santa Cruz.

I suppose anything is possible, but there are a few other problems with the document....

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

I see! So the person who copied the original, did it perfectly in all other aspects of names, but decided to add Santa Cruz.

I suppose anything is possible, but there are a few other problems with the document....

Take care,

Joe

I was not there when the Molina document was drawn up, so would be speculating. How could we know if ANY of the names are correct to the original? It is safe to say that the Molina document known to the public is definitely not correct on several grounds. But whether it is an invention of Mitchell's or the result of a hand done copying job how would we prove that unless an actual original were found? If you are expecting me to take the position that Tumacacori mission was standing in 1658 as the Molino document claims, you are set for a disappointment. Unless there was quite another Tumacacori, which escaped being mentioned in any sources dating to that time, the dates alone are a red flag.

Roy

 

[gollum]

Not if they are not dates and/or are codes.

Mike

 

[kanabite]

tag

 

[Crow]

Interesting....

Once again forgive my ignorance.

Hello Cactusjumper: Out of curiosity was the name of river called Rio Tubac or (Tvbac) at one time?

In what year this alleged Molina Document copy was first published?

Thanking you in advance.

Crow

 

[cactusjumper]

Interesting....

Once again forgive my ignorance.

Hello Cactusjumper: Out of curiosity was the name of river called Rio Tubac or (Tvbac) at one time?

In what year this alleged Molina Document copy was first published?

Thanking you in advance.

Crow

[Río Santa Cruz
The river that is today known as the "Santa Cruz River" was not known by that name in the Spanish Period. It was after the establishment of the town of Santa Cruz, located in present-day Sonora, that the river's name changed from "Santa María" to "Santa Cruz." In fact, John Mitchell's first book, printed in 1933, which gave an English translation of this counterfeit document, used the words "old town of Santa Cruz" rather than "Santa Cruz River." He evidently learned that the "old town" was not so old after all, and changed the designation to river rather than town in his 1953 book. Regardless, the useage of the words "Río Santa Cruz" date this forgery, whether original or copied, to a time after the Spanish colonial period and long after the Jesuits were expelled from New Spain.]

Crow,

I would need to look into your question "....was the name of river called Rio Tubac or (Tvbac) at one time?" My initial thought is...no!

I would suggest you go back to the beginning of this thread, as Mike and others pretty well thrashed out the document.

Good luck.

Joe

 

[RWLJ]

11-13-11
Joe
At least one Aztec history and language scholar claims that Montezuma the First created the Aztec Calendar artifact. I would put odds in his favor, and I am sure his men were the crafters, and I don’t care if it took them a hundred years what is the big deal. I have got something for you to chew on. The Dutchman took gold out of what has been camouflaged or called the Tumacacori Mine and had it stashed in the Superstitious Mountains where it was more convenient for him to retrieve it when he needed it. He obtained the gold close by where the Adam’s group was digging gold, which is right below the so-called Tumacacori Mines.
There are those that in recent years have got several pounds of nuggets by the same waterfall as where there is still a fireplace and the remains of a burnt cabin. John Brewer who was a part of the group with Adam, left with some of the group to get supplies, and after escaping he eventually slipped back into the place and got the gold next to the fireplace and then went to Mexico and became a rich cattle rancher. That land and all the mines that was above the waterfall are privately owned. The man who stole Jacob Waltz’s identity did not identify in any of his diaries or any of his records how the real Jacob Waltz was killed. He was helping the Indians to protect the place. If he had of betrayed the Indians, who knew where this fugitives family was, they would have killed them, plus other Indians would have killed the Indians he was working with for showing him the mines in the first place. Someone that he was allied with was responsible for killing eight Mexicans at one time to protect the mines. There were at least three white men that allied with the Indians, who allowed them to get a sizeable amount out of the mines and re-stash it. In his diary he mentions having a problem with the Dutchman that him and others of the group that had ties with the Abraham Peeples group, having got word from someone in that group that there were ones including the German that planned on killing him, as he had staked out a certain area in behalf of the Indians to protect the Indians believing that he had the rights to help secure them in their rights. For the sake of convenience let’s call this fugitive Juan Molino, he used that name as one of several of his aliases.
I don’t care if you want to challenge my statements, but I promise you, you will do more for those who want the truth than looking good in the future. There are others building and making assumptions on what he did do in creating a lot of red heron, which purpose was to throw people off the real trail, while in the Southern Arizona area. His poor use of Spanish is the reason critics say that an American created both the Peralta Stone Tablets and the Tumacacori Document. His intentions was to state enough truth and tie it to the south in a way to throw people way off the real trail, is the reason why the Indians allowed him to get as much gold as he got. The gold he got paid him for hiding the mines real well and throwing the people off track. The name Tumacacori is only partly correct. The Adam’s digging group were probably lead in paths to confuse them, that Apaches wanted the gold cleaned out of the stream so the white man would not find the mines and treasures that would empower them and to mess with the sacred site. I may be wrong but I believe the kid who professed to be an escaping Mexican led the group to the site to clean the gold out of the stream. The Apache probably figured it was easier to entrap and kill the white men after they cleaned the stream out, than to do the diggings themselves.
Don’t underestimate knowledge about the mines. The Fugitive found a Spanish Library that allowed him to create the Peralta Stone Tablets and put his spin on the Molino Documents to throw people off. Look at all the thousands that are looking in the Superstitious Mountains which were salted and where people are falsely looking for the Mines of the Molino Documents close to Tucson, AZ. So when you work as hard as people have done to make the Jacob Waltz Dutchman that became a US citizen the real man that knew where the mines were, you may untie the deception that this fugitive created, you can start recognizing a lot bigger picture than the tunnel vision that people have had for over a hundred years. El Chato (Pug Nose) plundered individuals as well as caravans, and where do you think he buried most of the plunder, in the same mine that the fugitive who stole the Identity of Jacob Waltz got his gold from.
Anyone should recognize that Juan de Dios Molino is an alias, Juan is Spanish for John and we still call people with the name John, Jack and Jack is short for Jacob. This fugitive was in a partnership and was the main owner of the Sawmill, he was the one that built the original barn that you have to pass by to get to the mines, and the frame of that barn still exists even though the outside has been remodeled, the framework is put together with wooden pegs, which is not far from the house in a cave, the top of the cave is collapsed in but you can still see the rock wall that was built on the weaker side of the cave, and it is at the foot of a bluff. Almost a mile and a half from the cave is the mine where the black rock is with two hill points where they took powder from the two points and filled the cracks between the rocks and sealed the shaft.
Not one of these mines was mined out. The reason they were not able to complete them is their Indian slaves could not haul enough water, in the pigskin sacks, out of the bottom so they could go deeper where the gold and silver was richer. Way back in the 1600s and 1700s there were Jesuits working with the Indians to hide things from the corrupt Spanish government, they wanted to set up a constituted republic and when they failed in New Spain they slipped into the New England states and influenced out founding fathers in education and setting up a constituted republic. One of them who was an ancestor of mine played a big role as he moved across the eastern seaboard, he changed his name as often as some people changed their cloths in them days, as he influenced some of the founding fathers to support a constituted republic, some of them influenced him that it was more blessed to have a wife and children than to be a celibate else I probably wouldn’t be in existence.
Most Americans don’t know that Benjamin Franklin belonged to the Rosicrucian Order of the Jesuits. Jesuits infiltrated the Free Masons and some of the leading Masons were more Jesuits than they were Masons. Even Gorge Washington bemoaned the corruption that was taking over Free Masonry. We start thinking strait, and do right by ourselves and our fellow men, seek the truth above appetite and then we will have the ability to find the treasures that will build us a future. The Jesuits would be disappointed if it fell into the hands of those that didn’t support constitutional laws that preserved free agency, and yet there are a lot of Jesuits that have become corrupt like teachers and priests in any religion. The government in Latin America were tarring down a structure and found twelve trunks, and the Jesuits are suing them for the gold coins and treasure. The thousands of Mule Loads of Jesuit treasure, shouldn’t be taken out where corruption can fight to confiscate it.
The Jesuits that placed the treasure in the so-called Tumacacori Mines would not want the corrupt ones of the day to benefit from their efforts, and if we are wise we won’t do something that can tie us up in court for the rest of our lives. We are too old for that Joe. Why do you think the US government marched to Santa Fe to take the southwest from Mexico? It was because they had inside information about the mines. Was it to get to the land of these Sacred Mines before the Mormons got there (even though they did not find them)? Both some of the Masons in government and Joseph Smith knew about the Sacred Mines. Joseph Smith sent a few people looking for them five years before the Mormons got to Salt Lake, which was before he was killed. So Brigham Young told his people not to look for gold and work to make peace with the government that was looking for the mines. The horse or carrier of important documents to and from Santa Fe, he became a fugitive, and while a fugitive he helped the Indians to protect the mines and he was rewarded accordingly. He killed a big German, the German grabbed a baby and the baby was killed also by this fugitive Juan Molino.
You have the word Mill (which is Molino in Spanish) hidden in the mane of the horse on the Horse Map, identifying Juan Molino as the horse carrier to and from Santa Fe, this story is very clear in his diary. The US government would have executed this man if they would have caught him. He played a big role in keeping the US government from finding or having the mines. He was a very smart man, and a good share of the treasure hunters are deceived by his actions, else they wouldn’t be looking for the mines in Southern Arizona, Northern Mexico, the Superstitious Mountains, Texas or a whole lot of other places. The Apaches were not dumb they knew that if they did not wipe out Adam’s group the US government and other people would have a lot more power through the wealth. Was the Navajo and Apache Indians, who were left over from the herds of Genghis Kahn, that drove the Pueblo Indians out of a lot of their area, was they protecting it as site and a treasure place of their great chief as some claim? Many times Spaniards who got too close to the wrong place and thing, found themselves being aggressively attacked by the Indians. The Pueblo 1680 uprising stemmed or started at the place of the Molino Document Mines.
There are so many pieces of history that are missing from those that put wealth ahead of searching true history first. There are many that would be stunned by how little they know. If they looked at a bigger picture they wouldn’t get sucked in by all the red heron. There were many with the help of Jesuits who named places after the original places to throw people off. The fugitive so-called Dutchman told a lot of truth that allowed people to think the mines were located close to the wrong Salt River. He personally went places knowing that he was followed to tie them up mentally in the Superstitious Mountains. He was favored by a lot of Indians who knew who he was, there were others that didn’t know who he was when he lived in Phoenix. He allied with Julia Thomas and worked hard on the German language to cover his identity so he could live and die and not be executed. To this day many people do not know the more clever double agents that might be our next door neighbor. I am sure the fugitive rewarded a few friends that profited by helping him keep his cover.
There are a lot of records that this man wrote and left behind. There are those that have them but do not understand the bigger picture. He hid real history under the disguise of dreams and his own family, which left him, did not know that some of his dreams were real history. I have records where he confided in a friend that it was not a dream and that it had really taken place. One CIA agent in recent times wrote a story but disguised enough history that he got away with passing it off as a novel. If you got into the wrong area and started messing with the mines, everybody and their dog would claim them and you would unite the Indians from one end of America to another, which could be much more severe than the Pueblo Uprising. Even the Jesuits were Smart enough to throw the people off to keep the blood shed down until the land could be taken over by good government. Our government is too divided for any smart person to be stupid enough to ask for greater trouble. As I said once before you would be smarter to take on Fort Knox.
There are Indians that still read and protect their language and history that know more than they let on. There are a lot more people that have been killed because of these mines since 1840, than what you may think. Alexander the Great buried eight-hundred tons of treasure in the Underworld, which he had sacked from Asia, according to some accounts of history. Mayan history gives an account of where the Greek Underworld is. There are a lot of treasures that have been lost, spend your time pursuing them but leave the Sacred Mines of the Molino Document that were once called the Tayopa Mines that the Spider Rock Maps of Texas identify, which are above the falls of Adam’s Diggings. The Apache went to great efforts and figured that they had killed them all, but several of them managed to escape and get out of there with their lives.
There is only one other place that may be more sacred and hidden than the sacred place of the mines, and that is the Underworld. The Hopi legends or trails take you to the same Underworld, the Pueblo Indians call it the Cave of Their Ancestors. The Egyptian history talks about the same Underworld, there are records carved in stone and on papyrus, they state that the fourth and fifth hour after the sun sets on the River of Egypt it is in the heart of the sky over their Underworld. In Lunas New Mexico you have the Paleo-Hebrew writing of the Ten Commandments, and that Paleo-Hebrew writing states that the Israelites came out of the land of the Mizraims not Egypt. Mizraim was the land of the Egyptian Underworld where the Israelites were slaves building two treasures cities of Python and Ramses, that have not been found by the world archeologists or scholars. And yet from the Pueblo Indians to the Mayans talk about that same Underworld.
World scholars in some fields are still operating from assumptions that stem from the Dark Ages (you might want to see Forbidden Archeology narrated by Charleston Hesston (go to youtube.com and in their search-box type in Forbidden Archeology and click on the full video version)). I am sure that is ok with a lot of Indians, but it won’t be ok if you mess with their two most sacred sites. When we can establish a government that is a house that is not divided against itself, that may be the time to pursue the sacred mines. So if we want to be a part of digging out the Sacred Mine tunnels or the Underworld tunnels, let’s establish a good government that will enable us to do so. Wishful dreaming for wealth will get us into trouble that is far beyond our comprehension. When I started doing excavation and nailed down the Underworld I knew I would be in for trouble if I pursued it. The same ability to cross examine history, allowed the area of the mines to be found and history repeated itself. So now I am using my strength in research to nail things down that are not so dangerous.
Don’t think that we are so smart that we have the ability to find something or that we are the special ones of God to be blessed with them treasures that is a fool’s paradise. Joe, I will give you something else to pick at. There is a box outline in the top of the Aztec Calendar, the end of the tails of two snakes that surrounds the outer face of the Aztec Calendar ends in the shape of a V. Both Vs have the symbol of five feathers in each one of them. Feather represents law from the Indians to the Egyptians. The five feathers on each side represents five laws and the V also represents five as it does in Roman Numbers, both sides of that adds up to ten laws. These ten laws are coming from the box in the top of the face of the Aztec Calendar representing the Ark of the Covenant. Snakes represent messengers, snakes with feathers on them represents messengers that carried and taught the laws of the Ten Commandments. The fire coming out of the stone of the Calendar represents the fiery message of the spirit of truth. One of the two heads that are in the mouth of the snake has a veil over his face, he represents the great law giver of the past who wore a veil over his face, the evening star or someone back farther in the past. Moses wore a veil over his face if you are familiar with history. The other messenger of law was the morning star, in the last part of the Book of Revelation Christ was identified as the bright morning star.
Is it ironic that the Aztecs were from the southwest and that we find the Paleo-Hebrew all around the original Underworld and the Ten Commandments written in stone in Lunas New Mexico. Is it ironic that the whole Exodus story is written in stone within a couple of miles of the Underworld, where the Israelites were slaves building the two treasure cities of Python and Ramses? The nineteenth letter of the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet whenever it is found on a pot in the Middle East the contents of that pot have been consecrated to God. The place of the Sacred Mines is where that nineteenth letter was created from or represented. The Aztec Calendar is made out of lava rock and it shows the flames coming out around the Calendar, it represents a mouth of a volcano, which the Hebrews called Mount Sinai, where Moses set up boundaries so the Israelites would not get to close lest the fire break out and kill them. An honest child can read the story of Mount Sinai in the Bible and recognize that Mount Sinai was a volcano that created a cloud by day and a fire by night, where Moses gave them the Ten Commandments. The powerful Jews thus far have been smart enough to not mess with the dome of the rock, which is the second most Holy site to the Muslim world, their most sacred site is Mecca. The Most Sacred to all the Indians of America is their Mecca, the homeland of the first Mecca-Caanan or Mexican where the Aztecs were from, their second most Holy site, which the Mayans call the heart of heaven, is where the Sacred Mines are, and that heart place is represented on the Peralta Stones.
Two places that the Mayans call the heart of the earth and the heart of heaven, you don’t want to mess with, if you cannot keep the Ten Commandments or the same laws that make up a constituted republic. The Aztecs and many cultures took their stuff to the place that the nineteenth letter of the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet represented. The Molino Document and map identifies temple and the ancient library that is there. If anyone thinks they are brave enough to go against the second most sacred site in America, they would be trespassed by the owners and in time be hunted down by the Native Americans. You seekers of the Dutchman’s Mines or the treasures of the Molino Documents do not know what you are looking for or where. The Egyptian god Anubis sometimes a black head on a red body which the Indians referred to as the wolf. If you take a number of Indian names for coyote and wolf, by using Wallace Budges Egyptian dictionary, you will find that quite a number of these Indian names identify Anubis the Jackal god, he guards the path that leads to the first Indian Mecca.
The scholars are blind at noon-day, there are a lot of cultures among the Indians that relate to the Egyptians and Hebrews Underworld or sacred Places, which was the cause of major wars in ancient times, which fought over the two places. As I have said the Pueblo uprising started when the Spanish got too close, and for a while even the Spanish government in Mexico discouraged people from going too far north that would rally the Indians to unite. Is this why we have a new El Paso de Norte, a new Tumacacori and new places south of the border that are names after the places of Tayopa in the north, a new salt river? You people out there really need to wake up to the bigger picture and go after that which is in your ability to have and acquire. Can’t you see the reason why these mines have not been found in over a hundred years? You have been led way off the track and it would be dangerous for anyone to try to prove it to you. Wake yourself up by looking at a far greater picture than the red heron that you have been pursuing. If you want to dream there are those out there that can still give you false directions or false maps. Most people that right books on lost treasures are out to make money by selling the books so they can find what they write about, often not giving you all the facts and leave you misled.
The so-called Dutchman took a lot of lives and saved a lot more lives than he took by steering the people away from that which would have united the natives and others that got the Adam’s Group wiped out. The fugitive so-called Dutchman lived in a place not a mile away from where the Adam’s Group’s cabin was burned. He was gone and by the time he got back the Indians had done their dirty work, and I am sure that he was willing to do his share of red heron to keep others from the same fate. It hadn’t been ten years before that when he helped the Indians kill a number of whites to protect the same Sacred Mines. His actions in leaving clues all over the place was to divide and confuse the powers who were looking for the mines. He was a man that had real strong convictions and wise people sensed it and stayed away from crossing him, he was a veteran of trials and tribulations. When the real Jacob Waltz crossed him to get control of the mines, the history of one ended in Arizona and the history of the other began.
He got the land that was in Phoenix out of Jacob Waltz’s name in case a few people who really knew his true identity, betrayed him. He never filed on the mines because it would have broken his trust with the Indians and would have jeopardized the place, for what the government would confiscate and claim he committed murderous crimes, one of his sons for a while worked right in Julia Thomas’s ice cream parlor under a different identity. He left Florence area for fear of being recognized; he avoided the paths of those that may have recognized him from the past. His true history could not possibly have matched the historical Jacob Waltz. He lied and said he was sending the money to his sister in Germany to throw people off, he was sending money to a so-called sister in the Missouri Kansas area, close to an area that he had previously lived, which probably filtered it out to his past family.
By misleading Brownie and Julia Thomas and all of the rest he saved their lives. He knew where all the treasures were that the Molino Documents talk about, but agreed with the Indians to not mess with any of the artifacts including bricks of silver or gold there were plenty he could easily mine for himself. He was really careful about being followed; he had once escaped execution by seconds.
Why no one has been able to find the mines, is because they did not want to do their homework and think out the big picture, they took the broad easy path and built assumptions on assumptions. It would be really tough to convince the people that they are on the wrong path. They don’t want to give up what they have invested into, so they waste their lives in chasing phantoms. It is not much different than many religions or those that are educated in the schools through the influence of the Smithsonian that there were no world crossings back and forth only through the Baring Straight fourteen-thousand or some odd years ago, that was through the influence of Wesley Powel who lost three of his men when he was looking for the Underworld in the Grand Canyon. History does not tell the whole story his failure to find the Sacred Mines or the Underworld would have been an embarrassment to him if made public. He did not have mercury in his trunk because he was looking for Indian Feathers. He spent time with the Hopis whose altered stories throw you into the Grand Canyon as if that was the place of the Underworld. I imagine a lot of the Hopis who are less educated believe the lie because it has been told so long, the old ones were smart enough to know what he was looking for and he was pissed at those that misled him and cost him his three men and made a fool out of him.
He failed and so therefore the Underworld and anything else of its importance did not exist in America, and he cemented that by establishing that there was no contact between the two worlds. His influence blinded America for the bigger part, to where people cannot see with their own eyes the strong relationship between the old and the new world. The Fugitive so-called Dutchman knew John Wesley Powell and his assistant looked in his trunks and found bottles of mercury and knew what he was up to, and it is through that intelligence being transferred that brought about the death of three of his men. I mention a little bit of history to give you an inkling of a far bigger story that key players in government did not talk about. Look how many people this man fooled in the Superstitious Mountains area and Southern Arizona and Northern Mexico through the theft of someone else’s identity or using aliases. Joe now you have lots of information to pick at and if you think you can make me wrong with incomplete circumstantial evidence, be my guest, it is not going to change the facts of history any. Carry on with your parties having a blast at chasing false rainbows along with being down on what you are not up on.
One of the Peralta Stone Maps in the book the Golden Dream by Thomas E. Glover page 325, talks about a water jug of Indian Gold, all the Sacred Mines of the Molino Document are in that jug or pot, and within eight miles of that jug or pot you have petroglyphs along with Ogham, Celtic writing, which the Molino Map shows a line with a spiral that cuts across Janos Pass before it hits the real Santa Cruz River. Above the spiral it has the Spanish word for petroglyphs, the counterclockwise spiral identifies that it is downhill. Both the Ogham script that is there as well as the petroglyphs show a pot and tell about a pot of gold at the end of rainbow colored area. The old Irish legend that goes way back says ‘far-far across the Atlantic Ocean to the west is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow’.
It is interesting that they are trying to make a map fit the wrong Salt River. The Salt River on that Peralta Map is the little Salt River that dumps into the original Santa Cruz River. The Dutchman for the reasons of the colored stones called it Pinto Creek, he also called it Boulder Creek. But on the Horse Map below the horse it shows that river going around a cross. The petroglyphs which are across from Janos Pass also identify it as the Santa Cruz River or the River of the Holy Cross. The round circle on the end of the nineteenth letter of the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet represents that pot and the line that crosses through it, it literally represents the Holy Cross, and that river has been known as the River of the Holy Cross for many years. There are many flat table or mesa shaped rocks with that letter of the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet on them carved deep, sometimes as much as two inches deep and as much as six feet long with patina or desert varnish on them thick and black in the grooves showing it to have been there a long-long time, which represents the mesa of the Molino Document Mines with the Santa Cruz River cutting through it.
You don’t have anything close to fitting that in the Nogales new-Tumacacori area and the little town of Santa Cruz south of the border. In times past I have lived in Magdalena, Sonora and Tucson Arizona. You have a river there with a new name that was originally the Santa Maria. On the Silver Bell Road on the northwest side of Tucson, in the 1920s they dug up some lead crosses with Hebrew and Latin writing on them, some of the symbol writing represents the Ten Commandments, the writing and maps on the crosses talks about the places where they had treasures and the treasures were still there. That history is talking about areas here in the southwest that has nothing to do with the copycat places in the Middle East. I am familiar with all the places they talk about and the places the maps identify. I bring this out because there are many trails that lead to what the Bible identifies, which has hid up from the world.
So Arizona has a lot of maps that don’t quite fit Arizona, but was part of the original Arizona before the United States carved up areas into states with new boundaries. It is quite interesting when you can look at the Peralta Map that talks about the woman with a walking stick and all the places that the map talks about, that fits the place that the Molino Document talks about.
At the place of the underworld you have Horace the Falcon Hawk, which in Old English was called Gawain the Falcon Hawk the name of the chief knight of the Round Table who was married to the old hag who was ugly during the day and beautiful at night (or inside her dark chambers), she lies over the sacred place of the Underworld which is very beautiful, works of men that exceeds the pyramids. Below the woman of the Peralta Map you have the pot of gold. The Fugitive so-called Dutchman did not exaggerate, which he referred to as the funnel. Well Joe you have a lot of work now.
These two treasure sites will become available to us when we create a strong government that respects people’s rights. How we serve the people in respecting their rights, whether you are and atheist or God fearing, is what will bring peace to the world, these treasures were hid up for that end. These treasures were hid up for those that would keep the laws of respecting people’s rights. I don’t want to sound like a broken record but that is the challenge. If we can grab a hold of the greater light it will give us the vision. True vision becomes clear when we are capable of sacrificing for the truth and put the truth of all reality ahead of any negative appetites. Don’t cuss me; I am giving you the keys that can lead you to the greatest treasures. In your ignorance you have been looking for the mines of Solomon and have not known it, and trails all around the world from the Aztecs to the Egyptians will lead you there.
We false program our mind to not see straight when we sell out to our appetites of wanting things that are not good for us, from junk food to selling out for social benefits to the masses that are dominated by lust and greed. We have five senses a sixth sense to procreate and a seventh sense to perceive the truth and govern all of our senses in balance for what is good for us in the long run, for far greater health of mind and body as a person and as a nation. But if you cannot give up false ideas and false ways where red heron leads you, you are apt to never find the greater treasures that lead to a greater happiness and fulfilled life. Ask yourself what is it that you want to achieve as your end goal. There is one way we all can win and have happiness, and it is to invite people to help share the responsibility of what it takes to bring forth real happiness.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the owners of the sacred place could invite all of you to come and help unseal the tunnels and shafts and open up the treasure house of the ancients and have the honor and glory for bringing it forward and showing the world the greater truth, but it would be casting pearls before swine they would trample us in the mud and it would be miserable. Nothing would make us more miserable than seeing the truth trampled in the mud by swine along with our hard work of many years of research and sacrifice being ripped from us so the capitalistic pigs could feed the socialistic pigs to enslave the workers and the producers that much longer and harder, with the educational pigs wise in their own conceit cheering them on. I have said enough and probably won’t have time to make comments again for some time unless something comes up again that is real important.
RWLJ