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[the blindbowman]

HI swe: you posted ---->

"I'd rather not speculate about something that does not exist",
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

snicker, snicker, snicke,r doesn't exst eh ? snicker

Don Jose de La Mancha

lol you must be talking about a fair tax law ...lol what if i told you the Taypa is real and i have prove it is ....

i beleive it was a Aztec mine then they made it in to a tomb for montezuma and the rest is all a matter of greed ...

i beleive the jesuits try to rename the site to make it look like the jesuit found it , but they only found a spanish mine in the area , they never found the Tayopa . it is still sealed tight ...

you need nder stand about 90% of all known small valiiages in sonora mexico came after Satna ana valiiage the Satna ana chruch is one of the oldest in sonora ..

often sites under the so called controll of a chruch would care the name of that chruch like ( Guadalupe of ) at one piont in the legend of the treasure trove list it says the same thing about Tayopa .. it dosent mean the tayopa is in that area only that that was the strong hold of the chruch in that area at the time , and just how big was Sonora back then , it was vast and could have very well reach 200 miles north , the old rule of thumb was within 3 days distance...


note the maps in the sierria madre ,showed up after the Santa ana maps , if you under stand the site was recorded in 1603-1646 you can asume the site is much older then these target dates if it did in fact have a full working set of mines and a small vallage at the site ...we know from other small mineing towns the site could have been as old as 200-300- years yet this was not a town it was a village , with a chruch and bells ...

the chruch was often build with out bells and then bell added ...

i even beleived the bells could have been made of gold and silver becuase there was o other way to get a bell to this area then to make it at site , but that would not explan the other gold and silver bells made there ..

this tell us the bells were most likely made to move the gold and silver unseen , and had nothing to do with useing them as bells ..

by the sounds of the acount of the massacre site , the village was destroyed and all most al sign of it coverd over , at the time the jesuit and spainish were killed off at the site ..we can only asume by this acount the jesuit priest were in numbers at this site when the event took place the wording stated priests were there ..

a good question is was Kino there or was this before kino's time .. we know the documents were date before his time and the acount of the massacre sounds to have took place when the village was fully active , this would have made it some time around the document dates . say 1646-1656, lets give these target dates a 10 years window for now and see how they hold up to study ...

if the documents are real and we can asume they are because of the birth and marrage record then these dates may in fact be very close to the true link to the village of Tayopa it self ... often the birth and marrages were record in the nearest chruch at the time of the events , back then the Satna Ana could have been the closeist chruch to village of tayopa some 200 miles north in the supersitition mts..
the other fact we need look at its village vs mines ..

if the village came after the mineing town the site could be as much as 200-300 years older then the site it self ... if the village had enough people to have death births and marrages then the village was most likely a hunderd years old at lest this would make the village 1503 or older useing are target dates for the village 1503 vs 1603 ...

we knew from dillmans find the masonic stamp was before 1519, we know it was most likely put there in 1519-1525...

now you are going to ask why did tayopa have to be north and not east of south . thats simple to answer , there were other chruches in the area that would have been closer then Satna ana .. this meansTayopa village was to the north , and most likely the village and mine were not some 200 -300 miles apart ...

this logically tells us the tayopa village and mine are in fact in the supersititions ...

think about the massacre site acount . it could have only taken place in the supersiitions ...if i am right the stone tablets came from tayopa village chruch and they priest that trye to run from the massacre could have try to hide the stone tablets and they could have made the maps of the stones or the maps were what took them to the tayopa mine in the frist place before the village became fact .. this would make more logic because of the wording on the stone tablets . this would date the stone tablets before 1503 , some where between 1279-1519, this tell us most likely the stone tablets are in fact older the the village of tayopa ..

so now our target dates of the stones and the village target dates add up some what .. the stones target dates were 1279-1325 . yet w see the village target dates from 1240 - 1503, and we know the castilla was founded in 1240 and became part of spain in 1479, lets pick a center piont as a focus target date .this says the event would have taken place somewhere around 1364 give or take 50 years , we are looking some where between 1314-1414, so dose these target dates fit any of the other target dates , the answer is yes . the 1314date dose in fact land between 1279-1325
so we now can focus on the dates between 1314-1325 this would have been the most likely date of the stone tablets and the starting of the village , the mine could have been there at the site for some time before these dates but , these are the most likely starting piont of the Tayopa sites in common ...

we now with some logical scale of focus can say the tablets must date some where between 1314-1325 ...

with the under standing the stone tablets would have been created to defind the tayopa mine , not the village that came much later around 1463-1503 we can logical asume the village did not appear over night , i gave it a 40 year birth ...if we give the village a full 100 years , we see it develope between the target dates , of 1303 -1403 now we have 3 sets of target dates that over lap . 1303-1314-1325, lets focus these target dates and see what get ...1303 -1325 , 23 years center piont between these target dates is 1314.5

we have just mathamatically focus a target date for the stone tablets of 1314.5

this means all the facters of the stone tablets and the wording and he histroy of tayopa vs the village combined says the stone tabklets could have only been made in the years around this target date of 1314.5 .

this says it would most likely be outside of the mathamatical proablities to have happend anywhere outside of this target date within logical mathamatical reasoning...

so we know the stones were made in year 1314...this also tells us the Tayopa mine is way older then the 1700's or the 1600's or the 1500's or 1400's or 1300's

this mine could have been a few hunderd years old before 1314.5. this would have been a pre aztec site , maybe Aztlan ....or pre-Aztlan ..

how do i know , the great flood , legend of the pima indains . out line the same targets dates ... as the bible 's great flood , now we see all 3 of those target dates alineing ...

this tells us the bible is confermed by the pima legend as well as the tayopa histroy in question here ...


this states the pima legend is as much fact as the bible it self and they conferm each other as facts of histroy ...

and we see how the montezuma legend fits within the tayopa legend and the stone tablets histroy ..

so we can focus on the templar founding the site already acttive by the Aztlan tribes in around the year of 1314.5

i am going to add this reply to my new book ( Return to Aztlan )... i am working on the book now ..

 

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[the blindbowman]

let me add this at the piont

"The role of the homeland of Aztlán is slightly less important to Aztec legendary histories than the migration to Tenochtitlán itself. According to the legend, the southward migration began around 830 CE. Each of the seven groups is credited with founding a different major city-state in Central Mexico. The city-states reputed to have an Aztec foundation were:

Xochimilco,
Tlahuica (in the modern-day state of Morelos),
Acolhua,
Tlaxcala,
Huexotzinca (the modern-day city of Puebla, Puebla),
Tepaneca (now Azcapotzalco, a delegación of the Mexican Federal District), and
Matlatzinca (whose language was Otomian and not of the Uto-Aztecan family).
These city-states formed during the Late Postclassic period of Mesoamerica (1300-1521 CE).

According to Aztec legends, the Mexica were the last tribe to emigrate and took 302 years to reach their destination. When they arrived at the Anahuac Valley, the present-day Valley of Mexico, all available land had been taken, and they were forced to squat on the edge of Lake Texcoco.

After the Spanish conquest of Mexico, the story of Aztlán gained importance and was reported by Fray Diego Durán in 1581 and others to be a kind of Eden-like paradise, free of disease and death, which existed somewhere in the far north. These stories helped fuel Spanish expeditions to what is now the Southwestern United States.

note our target date of 1314.5 dose fall between the 1300-1521,known dates of these tribes movements ...in fact in the early stages of this time span

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote:

Xochimilco

(emphasis mine)

Hmm...

Himilco, Phoenician Voyager to Northewestern Shores of Europe
http://phoenicia.org/himilco.html

Coincidence?

 

[the blindbowman]

just the idea the templar would have made secrecy for most, means we would most like find almost nothing to link them to this turn of events and thus this is what we find .. some times the lack of evidence hold meaning in it self ...

is the priest on the stone and the masonic stamp the only evidence we will ever find to link the templars to this site . IMHO no . in time often recovery of peice over time prove out the theories and facts slowly become a reality around the evidence and its quality ...

this may not have been the only treasure hiden by the templars at that piont in time they may have hiden more just to misled people from finding any given one of these treasure ..

thus the odd oak island becomes a part of a larger event and goal of the templar .. often we find a small treasure and lose prespective on the over all goal ..

i am not saying there could be others reasons and place the templar hide treasure . i only stated i have found reasonable evidence that they did reach the supersitition mts if on their own or by force
but one thing is out right clear to me ,the path of evidence is a one way trip . they nevr left this site . if they did there is no sign of it at this piont ...

now if you debeat the sickness or sacifice theories , i welcome this . yet a under standing of the profile ogf the Aztlan people must play a part in the degussion of these sites ....

if the templar were covering their trail and the unexspected slavery or death could reflect this type of vanishing act ...

this is all i am saying . its not the only out come but i have found evidence that suports these theories as fact ..

and the sites in question do exist on a real topographical map

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI BB' check your French data, one of the reasons that Napoleon was in Mexico was to anex the Tayopa complex to help finance his European campaign. Apparantly his engineers had designed a railroad from
Guaymas to the region when Maximilian was disposed. It was never built, "obviously because it never existed.. snicker.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[the blindbowman]

it wasnt becuase it didnt existed , it wasbecause he could not find it where everyone said it was . thats because it is in fact in the supersitition mts . and is not in mexico at all .. i dont knw what you have found i am 100% postive of what i have found , at lest the photographs prove it 100% ...at this piont bigfoot could have dance in that area who the hell knows ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI BB: I was being a sarcastic smart ------ when l said that it never existed", it certainly does exist, but far south of the 'supers. Remember the name was used by two other mines here, and there is no reason why it couldn't have been used up there also.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[the blindbowman]

HI BB: I was being a sarcastic smart ------ when l said that it never existed", it certainly does exist, but far south of the 'supers. Remember the name was used by two other mines here, and there is no reason why it couldn't have been used up there also.

Don Jose de La Mancha

very true , the only thing i see diffrent up here is they made the mine into a tomb and its still sealed ..


i got a question for you . we found a square cut into a rock wall about 12 ft high up and it had a letter C in the center of the box , we are still working on the other simbolics on that wall . this cave is well hiden and is almost imposable to get into ..

ave you seen cortez or coronado make this mark before , the reason i ask is at site one w found what looks like the markings of a gold bar or silver bar , and it also has the letter C at the upper left corner

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings Real de Tayopa, Blindbowman and everyone,

Real de Tayopa wrote:

HI BB' check your French data, one of the reasons that Napoleon was in Mexico was to anex the Tayopa complex to help finance his European campaign

I realize that this particular comment was addressed to our mutual amigo Blindbowman, but it brought up an interesting little "side note" - for if we start to look into the French Intervention in Mexico, just what particular religious Order was it, that was pushing Napoleon III (NOT the great general, Nap III was a nephew who happened to have the same name, for our readers here) into launching into his Mexican adventure? Oh yes, now I remember, it was the Society of Jesus. Hmm, now then how did Napoleon III, a Frenchman living in France, come to have such intimate knowledge of a legendary Mexican group of mines and treasure? Do we suppose that he must have read about it in the Paris newspapers, or should we look into some other group, a group that has long been linked to Tayopa, oh yes mi amigo the self-same Society of Jesus, besides promising the full support of the Pope and the wealth of the Vatican to invade Mexico, is it not also most probable that Napoleon III was told of Tayopa and where to build the railroad to it by these same Jesuits?

Of course the Society of Jesus denies all of this today but much of their involvement with Napoleon III (as well as involvement in some other highly political events, some quite bloody, sad to say) can be proven. (For those of a curious bent,...http://jmgainor.homestead.com/files/PU/MDPC/LA/LA.htm

Blindbowman wrote:

very true , the only thing i see diffrent up here is they made the mine into a tomb and its still sealed

If you can find and open this mine-tomb, it will make headlines all over the world.

Good luck and good hunting mi amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

and i would gladdly welcome you Oro to join me when this take place ...your reply brings me to a under standing .. i have seen a french related marriage in the 18 burga family blood line .by marriage .. the Society of Jesus is still a active chruch today and has power few want to stand in front of ..

they preach a good game but i would ot turn my back to them ...we should under stand these kick off orders of faith of the templars became diffrent orders with some what the same goals and had control of histroy hiden from most of the known world ..
as the society of jesus and the order of christ came from the same templar order as their founders ...even the under standing that the papal order played a roll in the templar movement in its early years , and the two secs divided the papal order stayed closely link to the chruch why the templar were divid as if the chruch it self wanted the templars to bear the sins of the chruch in wars and battles the chruch had to keep their distence from ... yet this also left the templars holding the bag when all was said and one ..

this is my opioion odf the over sight of these orders ..

you disband one and support another for what logical reason . because you no longer have control of the order it self ..


i found it very interesting how you worded this
"besides promising the full support of the Pope and the wealth of the Vatican to invade Mexico,"
i found a few related facters that link dirrectly to the vatican it self and i have more one reason to beleive the link between the map maker and the vatican took place in castilan Italy north of sicily . this chruch was founded in the earl 1200's and was a focal piont for the templar relations with the vatican ..

how much i do not know at this piont but twice i chased leds threw the same castilan chruch ...i even had to question if this was part of some long hiden templar code linking is events to this chruch it self , i still wonder if these words are coded and hand feed to the world by the chruch it self . what better why to control the out side world then to feed it a controlled supper of your own makeing . faith by control . dosent sound as if it was freedom of choice to me , and how this reflects the will of god or christ i will never know ...lol

IMHO someone chruch got to big for them .......they lost reality with god and christ and made a vatican of their own faith , these chruches preach a good game yet they do not relate god's wisdom or christ IMHO . they use there names to inpower their own greeds of power and wealth . one dose not need to pick up the sword to wheele it , one dose not need to mansion when they have others pay to build their temples , call them chruchs or temple the facts remain clear to me ..

some day the chruch will have to face the templar knights again . they betrayed them and rightousness will come for them in the ends of days ..
no vatican can stop this and the chruch will fall ...

the templar order will stand strong again .. i know these things will happen , my family was templar , you can change where we are born but we will always be templar knights , a blood line of rightousness ...

the chruch has betrayed its own for a sword it could never hold or use ,....some day in a lake of still waters will this sword find my hand once again and they shell hide like mice in the feilds of the world for their faith is not without sin and the price of balance will come un to them ...

 

[the blindbowman]

its funny how the ink can change the out come of histroy ,,,...fact vs reality i guess who's reality who's dea of what a fact is and what its value is ...

here we find our selfs with a legend unsolved , is the answer to this legend hide from logic or just hiden fron sight ...?

i have never written a book yet i find the reason to do so now ..

i contenplate who has the right to solve a legend and what will happen to the treasures if the chruch gets its hands on them , will they burn the scolls that dont agree with they faith as if they were the books of the 1500's in england . will the pages be lost if they tell the truth about christ and what he believed if it dose not reflect the chruches wishes ...?

i can only ask you how blind must you be for the chruch .. IMHO there are sheep and shaperds but who owns the feilds and who wants to own the sheep ...and why ...?

time will tell the truth , can they face it ....

 

[the blindbowman]

one mans hogwash is another mans tea ...lol

 

[Oroblanco]

SWR - I simply find it interesting that Napoleon III would have known of Tayopa, and would have tried to build a RR to it. What you find interesting SWR, is for you to decide.

Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO swr: Fortunately for the Tayopa Legend, I have proof, it was semi-critical in locating it, but until Tayopa is officially given permission for excavation , it will not be posted. It is reserved for the book, not for the public domain just yet. © thingie.

Feel free to make the obvious remarks which we all (you) know will not be answered, and so considered as just a personal bit of unproven rhetoric .

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[the blindbowman]

no way your not going to tell us where the treasure is and gift wrap it for us ...lol

i agree with you real de tayopa , some times its a fight just to not hit someone in the head with a gold or silver bar and say "you wanted to know where it was "

and the fact dose reman ,we know we have found montezuma's tomb , what part the Tayopa plays in this is yet to be seen , we dont under stand at this piont any reason the taypa was related to this site , we hope those answer are in the tomb ... we know for a fact it is related some how or there would be no logical reason to coded the word twice in the stones ..

but i am in the same holding pattern you are at this piont ...untill we have legal clams and premits this site will stay sealed thats why we are working on the spanish site now untill we have clear cut evidence to get the premits ...we have 342 more photographs to be developed this week ,and we have about 10 blowups to be done so far , the evidence is like puling teeth ... we filmed some sites from as much as a dozen diffrent dirrections ,just to get as much data and evidence as posable....

i got to say we have photgraphs that are out right unbeleaveable ...and show some of these site for the frist time in histroy in high resalotion clear well detailed photgraphs ...
most people would not under stand what a photgraphic expedition is or why its importain to the discoveries but with out these photgraphs the premits could never be gotten ...

it is even hard work to care for 564 photographs in save conditions ,and in a way that need not be handled.yet be seen only the researchers can handle these photographs and they know the each phot has a nice clear image and better stay that way ...lol ..

i will wait to see your site and your finds real de ..i under stand the value of time ....

in fact i was talking about getting another 20 rolls of 36 before i go back again ..thats 720 shots more that would take us to 1518 photographs thats half of what are over all goal is ...

its hard work and it taks time ....

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
Oh my word! First I read how the Jesuits enslaved native Indians and forced them to work in the mines and now I am reading about errant Templars in the New World some TWO HUNDRED YEARS BEFORE the arrival of Christopher Columbus! Good grief! Has everyone taken leave of their senses?!?!?!?!?!
Gentlemen, I might remind all of you that when Columbus discovered the West Indies, ship building and naviagational technology was at it's zenith and as a point of fact Columbus lost one of his ships due to steering problems right out of the gate. And now I am to believe that a Knight of the Temple of Solomon was living and walking among the natives of Tayopa? This is so funny that it should be a comedy!
Simply because something can be altered to fit into history, that doesn't mean that the event actually occurred. Of course there are a lot of similiarities between the empries of the New World and the empires of Northern Africa and the Middle East, but I may also remind everyone that there are infinitely more dissimiliarities between the empires than there are similiarities.
If there were in fact contact between the New and Old Worlds, then we'd have seen at least a small amount of Old World technology and produce, and the same can also be stated in reverse fashion, however there simply does not exist any evidence of any such thing.
I am sorry gentlemen but I simply cannot continue on for the moment as I am laughing too hard to be able to type properly.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening Lamar: it is good to see you posting again. Pro or con actually makes no difference, just that you do post.. I was getting worried about you, I thought that perhaps something had happened to you.

When Tayopa is finished, it is already an accomplished fact, I personally would like to physically meet you. If so, may I bring Oro and Beth as my guests?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

One thing has always followed native contact with Europeans and their animals: Devastating, and pervasive disease and death. Any such contact would leave a mark that would be easy for any half-assed archaeologist to recognize.

I would suggest anyone interested in the phenomenon to read......"Guns, Germs, and Steel" by, Jared Diamond.

It's akin to basics physics.

My apologies for interupting the flow of this scholarly treatise.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB, ORO, etc., regarding the Jesuits, Maximilian, Carlotta, and Napoleon's, connection's with Tayopa and each other in the 1800's, just research their connection with the king of Belgium and Maximilian's personal confident /adviser, an Belgium mining engineer. If you get into it, you will find it very fascinating.

BB, Santa Ana came into existance after Tayopa no.1 at Guaynopa, and before Tayopa no. 3. It was Tayopa no. 2. It is now being promoted as "the" Tayopa by a group of Mexican miners with side tours.

No 3, which is the one that I have, is the one that all of the richest mines, stories and treasures are associated with. This is the one that Napoleon was after.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[the blindbowman]

BB, ORO, etc., regarding the Jesuits, Maximilian, Carlotta, and Napoleon's, connection's with Tayopa and each other in the 1800's, just research their connection with the king of Belgium and Maximilian's personal confident /adviser, an Belgium mining engineer. If you get into it, you will find it very fascinating.

BB, Santa Ana came into existance after Tayopa no.1 at Guaynopa, and before Tayopa no. 3. It was Tayopa no. 2. It is now being promoted as "the" Tayopa by a group of Mexican miners with side tours.

No 3, which is the one that I have, is the one that all of the richest mines, stories and treasures are associated with. This is the one that Napoleon was after.

Don Jose de La Mancha

thanks for the info real de tayopa . i have many question still about the reason for the stone tablets to have the tayopa mine related to them and if my research i right the tayopa of the treasure list relates to the mine lost in this area yet where is still in question saddly i may be stoping research on all my sites but two . the montezuma tomb and the new defind site 4 . after picking up 342 photos today i got some out standing photographic evidence to add to my site 4 ,we are very close to haveing enough evidence for premits for this site ...

this site 4 is not just any old site , it has a letter G & a leter P above a 12ft deep shaft , we beleive the shaft belonged to Gonzales and Prealta ,the ledge is not in veiw .


real de tayopa . this has been flowing me . maybe it dosent get enough sha ma chi in its diet ... you ever see a track like this one . its 6 1/2 -7inches across... its fast and i have senced it flowing me twice so far but we have 'nt met yet ,,, i senced it behind me and i circled 300 ft to the left and come up behind it , saw what it was and I vanished into the wind ...