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HI BB,. It was walking slowly or stalking, it is the Left front foot, second toe badly cut or injured once - easily identified in the future, non retractable claws, hence in the canine family. 6 1/'2 - 7 " ?? HUGE Wolf, Domestic cross, or a werewolf? Two or four legged? Fascinating, keep me advised.

Do you think that if we staked Djui out as bait, that we might catch it? Worth a try no?


Don Jose de La Mancha

p.p.s. wild wild thought. since no-one seems to know just what TAYOPA means, it is remotely possible that it has been handed down through many many generations for different mining zones??

Sooo, it just might be related in a distant way to the superstitions, perhaps even the original site???

How ever my TAYOPA is the one that all have been looking for, the one the Jesuits were working in the 1630's and lost due to the Indian uprising..
 

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My friend Jose,

I agree it was the left front foot.
but it was mooving quickly so them right hid foot was involved as well.

An overlap

Nice photo.

Thom
OD
 

no , it was walking where that track was taken from ...thats one foot . i tracked him for about 35 yards along a stream edge and i dont know how long he was stalking me ..if thats some kind of a wolf its the largest wolf track i ever saw ...wearwolf , i cant rule that out ...lol .....i know what ever it was its fast and it dont scare easy ...,its smart and tryed to short cut me off from circleing him .. not much out there in the wild knows how to do that ,i was almost sure it was a large black cat with spots ,moveing fast from shadow to shadow , this is twice i have seen sign of it...

it looked to be four leged .but i never tracked any thing that can move like this ..i stoped tracking it when i saw it jump 15ft from one low piont on the edge of the stream to a large rock on the side of the stream .. almost stright up ,what can do that ,,? , i have been a tracker almost all my life . i just dont know any thing that acts like that ...at lest any normal thing ...

i beleive it was watching a hikeing trail ,most likely waiting for a smaller old hiker moveing slow like it was easy game ...with so many older hikers ,people could vanish and no one would even know it ...if it is some kind of large cat most likely it would'nt even leave any blood of a kill it would bit is victums neck and take it off to its den and at that size it would not have much troble with old people.....

but one thing i saw was scary , this thing was hunting in the day time .thats not normal ...it was fast enough i never got a good look at it ....the track were not there 15 mintes before i circle it ... no ,what ever it is , it stalks its pray... ...what i noted most was it looked to have been 25ft down hill from where hikers cross the stream , it looked like it was watching them cross , like some big cats do on game trails , that a scary thaught dude ...
 

real de tayopa , that track is so far a unidentified speacies of cat ,as far as we could tell its no know speacies, you were right cats dont show there claws ,only one know cat species the cheetah dose and its like all known cats they have four claws that show up in that tracks ,,,the only real odd thing here is they are 3 1/2 -4 inches in size at best ..there is no known cat of this size , this track is double the size of any know large cat.....yet it is some kind of a large cat ... a very big kitty with 5 claws
 

BB: Only prob is there are no known cheetas in America other than in zoos. All other kitties have retractable claws, so you never see them in a kitty track.

A bear is extremely unlikely, since it or evidence of it would have been seen a long time ago, so I am forced to think of a domestic canine cross.

As for jumping that distance hmmm

I doubt that many senior citizens have been taken by this critter, there would be too much evidence left behind.


Don Jose de La Mancha

What abut the idea of staking Djui out to capture it? He is expendable, this critter is not. $$$$$$

Sooo is it a super ID eating trype of creature? Supernatural? Was a mascot for one our UFO"S and was lost?

OD you are correct, except that the spoor shows no sign of being pushed to the rear as would be in evidence if it were running..
 

i agree real de tayopa , we ave found no tracks that match this type . i have ask a zoo if their staff could id this track . so far i no one knows anything that makes a track like this ...i dont know what to think at this piont ....i wish no harm to any good joke as long as its not me being the bait lol ...


as i stated i track it for some distence it was walking when this track was photographed , i place my hand over the track and messured it with my hand i out right sure of its size and the photograph speaks for it self it is just as it was found ...

i guess its interesting never the less ...
 

Greetings everyone,

Lamar wrote:
If there were in fact contact between the New and Old Worlds, then we'd have seen at least a small amount of Old World technology and produce, and the same can also be stated in reverse fashion, however there simply does not exist any evidence of any such thing.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree mi amigo, as it appears that you have the same assumption that so many historians and archaeologists that ANY contact MUST have been so massive as to leave behind massive evidence, utterly un-mistakeable. This is not supported by the evidence as there is actually a considerable amount of evidence that some level of contact was in fact taking place between the Old World and the New, in ancient times (as in more than 2000 years ago) - almost certainly accidental in some cases but contact nevertheless. For one example (out of many) just look into the simple plant product cotton - for the European explorers found native people in Mexico raising and cultivating Old World cotton plants. I won't bore you with a long litany of such examples, you can readily find them online (such as the bottle gourd, corn, peppers, hemp, chickens, tobacco etc) and would suggest a few books if you are interested and have an open mind to the possibility that the "Isolation Theory" (that the Americas were in utter isolation from the end of the last Ice Age up to the arrival of Columbus/Leif Eriksson) is wrong. Remember, spools of cotton were among the very first items offered to Columbus by the natives on his very first visit to the Americas as trade goods!

I don't propose that the fact that a very limited type of contact in ancient times (2000+ years ago) means that Knights Templar were tramping about in the Superstition mountains of Arizona some 800-900 years ago; to my thinking that is quite a leap of logic that requires more proof (like finding Templar coins or even Arab coins or weapons or other artifacts etc) and will take more than the curious carvings in the church in Scotland that resemble American corn. So far, I remain un-convinced that the Templars even were aware that the Americas existed.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope that you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco
 

i agree ,but if i dont convence my self it posable i most likely would dismiss it before giveing it a chance .. so in fact NO i dont think there is enoungh evidence to prove the templar were here at that piont in time .. is there evidence hat shows it could be posable yes , but what this evidence means is up for one of a few translation at this piont .and it could mean one of few diffrent concluesions...
 

Greetings mi amigo Blindbowman and everyone,

Then I can see that we actually agree on this idea - for I also think it is POSSIBLE, just not yet enough evidence to "prove it" as fact. There is evidence that could support the idea of Templars coming to America - like we discussed earlier, if Sinclair was a Templar (possible) and the story of Sinclair sailing off to America where his knight Gunn was killed (and buried) not to mention the possibility of Oak Island being something Sinclair created - then the next step would be to show some evidence that Templars had explored into what is today Arizona etc. How could Sinclair have gained knowledge of America? Perhaps through the Pope/Vatican, which had some kind of information due to the tithes received from "Vinland" as well as the church officials dispatched there, OR since Sinclair's domain was the northern isles of Scotland/Shetland etc it is quite possible he obtained information from direct contacts with Norse traders or raiders. Still a tough case to prove and plenty of work to dig up enough evidence to seal the case.

On the flip side of this, there will always be the 'nay-sayers' who will refuse to change their views regardless of what evidence is found and put forth. For those folks, it is not possible to sway their locked minds - just don't let such people discourage you from your quest. I am sure there are people who think I am one of the 'closed mind' types but in truth I keep an open mind, just need solid evidence to sway me.

Good luck and good hunting my friends, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco
 

Welcome home Roy,

Have to agree with you, as stated.
what I have been trying to sat all along.
(some people are better with words)

I'll email in a couple days (as time allows )
meanwile if you feel the need to rant a bit you have my email .
condolences and prayers Buddy.

Thom
 

Thank you Thom and really I was just repeating your words - I would love nothing more than to see our history books get some long-needed corrections, but it takes very solid evidence to get that done. That is the real reason why I keep pestering our amigo Blindbowman to find that evidence, not because I refuse to accept that his theories (however fantastic) could possibly be true. He might really be on to something and it takes solid evidence to ever hope to convince those historians - a very tough sell to get them to see that some theory they have taken as "gospel" for years is wrong!

Actually it helps to get things 'off the mind' just to 'escape' into T-net etc - I think you know exactly what I mean. Thanks again,
your friend,
Oroblanco
 

I totally agree with you Roy,
Our schools here in Colorado have taught all my life that there were no Spanish prior to Escalante's foray into the "unknown" in 1776.
And yet there is evidence of mining activities and even Spanish settlements that go back 100 years and earlier Before Escalante.
I find it hard to believe that he and his map maker/navigator would make such a huge mistake as to come into this part of the country on a route that brought them right through one of these old Spanish settlements. He also traversed right past a major trail that the prospectors and miners used missing it all together. This trail bypasses Sana Fe as it goes South, which creates a huge controversy in itself because it eliminates the governor of Santa Fe from the tax records on shipments coming to Mexico city from this area. Much to Escalante's dismay "I suppose" these people had dissappeared as much as 80 years prior to the journey Escalante made.

BB,
I have been working on this for almost 30 years and still haven't got enough information to conclusively convince historians I am correct. at least not enough to change a history book.
I have found some superb Spanish things and artifacts that date as far back as 1585 and even with all of this, I am still faced with the burden of MORE PROOF.

Even with over 100 disks of solid photographic evidence.
These guys maintain the current static history.
So yes sir, I do Know how hard it is.

Try not to get discouraged
and try not to be so darn cynical.

Just keep plugging away and keep an accurate record of your work .
Things may work out in your favor.

Thom
 

HOLA Thom, Oro, Bb etc. I agree completely with you. It is like cancer, if you spend your life becoming the GURU of it and it's treatments, you will certainly NOT welcome some newbie rocking your Academic boat. You will fight tooth and toenail against anything different from which you have learned and espoused in your life, even to lying subconsciously, it not deliberately, to defeat it and remain at status quo. Need I mention $$$$ ?

Many of the top professionals hold their positions over the ridiculed and destroyed careers of the competition.


I am fascinated by BB's thinking and MO. While I may not agree with him on many things, I am sure through his postings that he doesn't agree with mine. Only time will tell who is more correct, possibly even both in our own ways. hhehe.

Love your vague, so far, reports, on the Jesuits in Colorado. Together we may just rewrite the histoy of the Jesuits / Spanish in the new world

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Oro is a successful author, maybe he can ghost for us?
 

HOLA; Just a general thought. It has been brought up that every contact with Europeans has had a devestating effect upon the native population through deseases.

It is it not possible or feasable that such contact was made before a particular desease mutated enough to be dangerous to any human, particularly the Native Americans? I must start investigating this, when were the first deadliest deseases for the Native populations first recorded in Europe?

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Jose,

I believe you can go back to the beginning of recorded history in Europe and find Bubonic plague doing it's work.

Smallpox was the big killer over here.

Joe
 

To somehow imply that europeans are the cause of all the evils in the world is ludicrus. the spread of disease has been an ongoing result of human to human contact since the beginning of time. People live and die by the thousdands and thousdands every year some by small pox and some by a blow to the head and it has always been that way. Europeans were just not the great spreaders of evil onto this garden of eden continant that some will try to portray.Cortes may have appeared to be an evil invader but he was just operatating under the standard norms of the time and the aztec were cutting out the hearts of their neighbors which was their norm at the time. Humanity has always killed each other, this has been the history of humanity since cain and able. The amerindians were slautering each other long before any europeans ever landed here.
Interesting topic.
Bill
 

Greetings Jose,
What matters the most to me right now is not who gets credit for the discovery or even the authorial notoriety, but truth being taught in these schools.
To me that is the most important thing. My Grandkids shouldn't have to sit in the office waiting for the parent to come because they argued with an ignorant teacher, as did their parents when they were kids.

The actual truth is that half of this country in Colorado would become protected by the historical trails and archaeology people that we would lose access very quickly as recreational users.

Heck no I don't want credit.
Someone would probably firebomb my house if they found out.

LOL
Thom
 

Dear group;
Using cotton as an example of intercontinental trade between the Old World and the New simply will not work, all because of a tiny bit of matter known as DNA. Just by taking samples of cotton from tombs in Peru and Mexcio and comparing them to the samples from Old World India, it becomes immediately obvious that the strains of cotton are much more different than a mere span of a thousand years or so. The differences in the strains are much closer to hundreds of thousands of years. And yes, while all cotton plants derived from a single cotton strain, by the time cotton was being cultivated in the Old and New Worlds both basic strains were so vastly different that DNA examination is hardly necessary. One can tell the differences in the strains merely by measuring the staple.

Tobacco was not native to European culture until it's discovery in the New World and neither was corn. The animals, plants and vegetables which are found in both the Old and New Worlds are of such different strains that one would be hard pressed to even consider they may have been introduced to the New World natives by Old World explorers. None of these things has been able to sneak past that nasty little DNA strand. It's such a wonderful discovery that it's now the blueprint to the history of our planet and as such it's perhaps the finest record we have available which shows the forward progress of our world.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 

Greetings Lamar,

As I have repeatedly drifted FAR off-topic in this thread and others, I will simply add a bit here and hope that you will research the matter more thoroughly before you simply accept the Isolation theory which we have all been taught in our education - because this isolation doctrine is false. (For those who don't know what in heck I am talking about, the Isolation theory is a version of history that has the American peoples remain completely isolated from any sort of contact with any peoples of the Old World, from the end of the last Ice Age when the Bering Straits land bridge became flooded until the arrival of Columbus 1492 or at least the arrival of the Norse circa 1000 AD, a period of thousands of years. This theory is the version we find in MOST history books today, but not all.)

According to the Columbia Encyclopedia, (6th edition) quote

Cotton fabrics found in Peruvian tombs are said to belong to a pre-Inca culture. In color and texture the ancient Peruvian and Mexican textiles resemble those found in Egyptian tombs.


It is unknown exactly how cotton from the Old World traveled to the New World, but one theory suggests that from the origins in Africa and Asia Minor ancient trade routes existed along the east coast of Africa, to the western coast of India. Through ocean trade routes, even as escaped cargo, the fiber plant, it is reported, found its way to the New World (Smith, 1995).
Click to expand...
http://www.siu.edu/~ebl/leaflets/cotton.htm

For instance, years ago, Dr. M. Wells Jakeman introduced me to the cotton evidence. Old World cottons have one set of chromosomes. New World cottons have two sets--one unique to themselves and one just like the Old World cottons. Geneticists pointed out that the only way this situation is to be explained is if the two cottons had differentiated themselves during the geologic past and then been reunited relatively recently in the New World. Hence, the argument develops that the Old World strain was brought to the New World by human hand and a New World dominant hybrid subsequently developed replacing the original. Former claims that the Spanish introduced cotton to the New World are now suspect. Today, diffusionist scholars debate where the Old World cotton might have come from and who before Columbus may have brought it (Fryxell 1978; Carter 1963; 1988:168-9).
Click to expand...
(Transoceanic Contact pt III by T. Michael Smith)

Cotton is hardly the sole evidence of pre-Columbian contacts between the Old World and the New, I suggest that you research the Egyptian mummies which when tested were found to have ingested American products such as cocaine and tobacco (including finding an American tobacco leaf within the wrappings of one mummy) before you dismiss the idea of pre-Columbian contacts taking place. Don't make the mistake of assuming that any such contact MUST then have been so massive and regular as to have left massive and un-mistakeable evidences, as most skeptics do - undoubtedly what contact occurred was sporadic and irregular, probably accidental in some cases as we have had accidental crossings of both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans in the post-discovery period. In fact several of the most important discoveries were a result of accident, as Cabral discovered Brazil while trying to sail round Africa for one example. Several ancient Old World civilizations were highly successful seafarers, and in ancient times navigational secrets were quite literally "state secrets" and not widely published.

Lamar perhaps you do not have enough doubt about what we read in our text-books to even question the theories we are taught as if they were pure and incontrovertible facts, if so then my apologies for suggesting any further research into the matter - as you must then be completely satisfied with history as it is presented in school texts. Any further debate between us would be pointless in that case, and it is not my mission in life to cause you to have doubts about what we have been taught.

I would be happy to start a new thread so as to discuss some of these subjects we have been talking about here which are clearly FAR off-topic, if anyone should so desire just say the word - I don't wish to irritate anyone with so much off-topic material.

Good luck and good hunting Lamar and everyone reading this, I hope that you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco
 

OHIO ORO: A little side thingie, in the past few years, men have crossed the Atlantic solo in conoes ?

Considering that most of the old world's naval construction techniques were far superior to a simple canoe -----.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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