Treasure Trove Permits

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=Blazer link=
. He tried to have them dated at Redlands. He never made them public. He guarded them fiercely, and he spent a lot of time in the mountains trying to figure out where they led to. Obviously he believed in them.
*************

Obviously, however this still doesn't clear up who may have been the originator and why. Reaves tends to fill up most of the holes. Exactly how he intended to use them is still not clear, Perhaps produce another document referring to them and a connection to the Peraltas to futher backup his claim.

Peraltas ----( - ) zero!, no logical data to support this.
Barry------- (+ ) question? could and did have the opportunity and possible reason.
eaves-------(+++) Most likely, he knew that he couldn't produce new markings in the Superstitions
since the existing ones were fairly well known, so his only alternative was to create ones outside of
the Superstitionsto be found later by his cohort, or more hopefully, by an independent traveler.
How he intended to tie them in with his land claim is still unknown.

Tropical Tramp

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[MesaBuddy]

O K so I've been lurking and reading all this stuff and I can say I am amused
My honest opinion (they're like a$$holes everyones got one)
The stones are fake
Waltz got his gold from another place North of Phoenix (That is my opinion see above)
No disrespect to any/all that are into this
I took a couple of "Ganders" into the Supers , not much caught my eye
Do any of you LDMer's know where this hole is
It has all the makings of a "Mormon hole" which I will not explain (if you know your stuff you will know what I am talking about)
Thousands of people pass it by
It is near the fork of two major trails
I will take one person here to it and that would be "Randy" (he's an amigo)

Best Regards
MesaB

 

[MesaBuddy]

and another , I will put up a shot of the general area
The tailings pile are still quite visible though the vegetation has grown back quite well , there is a cart path leading up to it
Best Regards ,
MesaB

 

[Zephyr]

" Reaves tends to fill up most of the holes. Exactly how he intended to use them is still not clear, "

If I recall correctly (and I'm going by memory about the Arizona land swindle that I read a while ago), that if he was trying to claim a big chunk of territory, why not stick boundary markers at each corner of the "claimed" area? IIRC one set was found (or "produced" as evidence) around the time of the swindle. If this was another set, then possibly there are at least two others out there. If the scheme with the first marker fell flat, "discovering" the others would have been a waste of time, if not counterproductive.
'course, I could be wrong (and usually am....

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings,

Mesabuddy wrote:Do any of you LDMer's know where this hole is

No, sure don't - but would be worth checking out - if it is not one of the many holes dug by those who hunted for the LDM, perhaps there is a mineral deposit?

Blindbowman wrote: have any of you been to medince bow and talk to any of the shaman there

Been to Medicine Bow, Wyoming? Yep - went prospecting north and NE of there, great fun but zilch for gold. Talk to a shaman? No.

The age of the stone inscriptions would be almost impossible to prove, AFTER they were cleaned, which makes that "at least 100 years old" statement very thin. Tool marks from modern power tools are one indicator of a fraud, and we have the statements of four experts that they were fakes - however you are free to dismiss their opinions. Perhaps the grinding was done by hand, and the marks resemble modern tool marks? Dismissing the opinions of the experts and the grinding marks - then we must look at the writing style.......does the writing style look correct for Mexican, Spanish or Jesuit inscriptions, compared to known genuine inscriptions?

The finder of the stones (Tumlinson) and the next owner (Mitchell) both believed the stones to be genuine, that is the first four and not counting the "Latin hearts" and "Latin crosses" which were not found by the same person nor in the same place and time, and used them in their searches. Tumlinson quit his job as a policeman to search and did so for years, Mitchell also searched the Superstitions for years, using the stones as "maps" to find treasures or lost mines - but found nothing of value; hundreds of others have also tried using the stones as maps to find treasures or lost mines without finding any - what does that tell you?

Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=Zephyr link='course, I could be wrong (and usually am....

***********
Hmm you are marred also?

Tropical Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

[=Zephyr link='course, I could be wrong (and usually am.... Wink

***********
Hmm you are married also?

Tropical Tramp



Reminds me of a joke my brother told me - "If a married man were out in the forest, all alone with no one else for miles around, is he still wrong?"

Oroblanco

 

[Blazer]

Oro,
The finder of the stones (Tumlinson) and the next owner (Mitchell) both believed the stones to be genuine, that is the first four and not counting the "Latin hearts" and "Latin crosses" which were not found by the same person nor in the same place and time, and used them in their searches. Tumlinson quit his job as a policeman to search and did so for years, Mitchell also searched the Superstitions for years, using the stones as "maps" to find treasures or lost mines - but found nothing of value; hundreds of others have also tried using the stones as maps to find treasures or lost mines without finding any - what does that tell you?

Oroblanco


It can lead different people to ASSUME a lot of different things. But the only thing it TELLS you with any certainty is that if anyone has ever found anything. They are not talking about it openly. Never ASSUME that you know all there is to know about a subject, just because you have read all the published material that is available on it. Especially where Lost Mines & Buried Treasure are the subject!

Blazer

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Very good bowman, may borrow some.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI room this is a picture of a very small pack train, notice the driver is always at the back/rear alert for any misadjusted packs or dopped cargo. This is why I don't think that they were casually dropped.

This is up At TAYOPA, 7000 ft.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Zephyr]

Hmm you are married also?

Tropical Tramp

No, I'm not that lucky....

(Marred, married, same thing?

 

[gollum]

Hey All,

I'm back. Just taking a break from everything for a bit. Back now.

MARRIED? Not since 1988! Kids? None that I know about! Just happily single.

JEEEZ! I leave for a bit and everything gets all angry!

RELAX!

Why get so worked up over some old rocks that nobody here will ever make a penny on (unless you write a book)? Personally, I think the Stone Maps are authentic treasure maps. After finding out about the Spanish Heart and the Stone Crosses (oh, by the way; Oro you are mistaken. The Latin Heart was supposedly found in the same area as the Stone Maps. Not the same spot, but the same area). The Stone Crosses were supposedly found inside the Supers. Since finding out about their existence, I have talked to a few people about them. I believe the Latin Heart was/is genuine as well. Not a clue about the Stone Crosses. They are widely believed to be fakes by the finder (Bill Hidden), but a couple of people who know him, do not believe him to be a liar or a fraud.

There are two separate stories of gold bars being found in a cave in the Supers. One is about Harry LaFrance (France), and the other, I can't recall right now. I believe that anything the Stone Maps led to at one time, is long gone. Secretly taken out of the Supers many years ago. IMHO

It looked like Copperminer was calling Jose and Oro "Armchair Treasure Hunters". While Jose and I don't romp the same places (yet), Oro and I do (some). I can spot a Lazyboy Treasure Hunter, and they don't fill the bill. I haven't seen anything from you that tells me you have done 1/3rd of what Oro has done (or 1/20th of Jose). Hell, I know Jose's personal history from the mid-1940s until today. For someone like you to call him an armchair treasure hunter, is a joke! If you knew anything about anything, you might try a little research on "The Explorers Club" It's not something you can pay a fee and get a membership card (with a 10% discount at REI or Sport Chalet).

Best,

Mike

 

[gollum]

The mere thought of marriage makes me feel like the dog in your avatar!

But that wasn't the case either. I was just house sitting for a friend in Beverly Hills. The house sitting part was great, but the 85 mile drive each way to and from work was horrific! Especially in L.A. Traffic!

Best,

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Golly, we were just about to make up a party to go pull your over ripe remains out of your tunnel, fortunately we had no idea where that might be.

thank you for the kind words, heheheehh

Heck it is simple, no secret, I was a high school kick out, a military reject, and then just a bum living from hand to mouth daily, many times I didn't even meet my daily ration of Tequila and Peyote sniff.

Just roamed from the Gobi desert, the Pacific basin to the Mexican Jungles etc., effectively a complete failure by our society,

My motto and life is simple " I was born lazy and have dedicated my life to not changing,. quite successfully I might add".

As for the stones sheehs yer bull headed and mistaken heheeheh

Err about the offprng? hmm DNA will clear up an unexplained population increases in different remote parts of the world.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=Zephyr ]Hmm you are married also?
Tropical Tramp
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

No, I'm not that lucky....
(Marred, married, same thing?
***********
HI, some of us learn the easy way snicker. congrats.

This was my downfall sigh. Took a two year formal Old Spanish courtship to get her. The money and time could have better spent on other things, like treasure hunting.

Tropcal Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings,

Welcome back Mike! I figured you were just too danged busy to be fooling with us 'bicker-ers'! Glad there was not anything wrong, and good to 'see' you again!

Blazer wrote: It can lead different people to ASSUME a lot of different things. But the only thing it TELLS you with any certainty is that if anyone has ever found anything. They are not talking about it openly. Never ASSUME that you know all there is to know about a subject, just because you have read all the published material that is available on it. Especially where Lost Mines & Buried Treasure are the subject!

Well "assuming" is what we have to do with many treasure maps - we have no way to prove many of them are either fakes or genuine. Let us "assume" that Mitchell and Tumlinson used the stone maps and FOUND great treasures, which made them independently wealthy - then what is left for us to find? You are sure welcome to view the Peralta stones as genuine maps to lost treasures/lost mines etc and I hope you will try using them to find the treasures/mines. That is the final "litmus test" for any treasure map after all - personally I would not care to try to follow out what they are supposed to lead to. That is just my personal opinion, which carries no more weight than yours or anyone else's. Perhaps if I were a bit younger and more ambitious, I might be willing to give them a try - but I would sooner follow up other clues.
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

I'm kind of with you here Oro.

Two things prevent me from giving any serious thought to trying to find the end of that trail (even though I believe they are genuine treasure maps).

1. Knowledge of who made them. If we knew who made them (assuming they are genuine), we could make a good guess as to the starting point. It could be anywhere from Eastern California to Western New Mexico. By knowing who made them, we would have a good idea of what area they operated in, where their mines were, etc.

2. Knowledge of the correct starting point. Even a very general one. If we knew they applied to the "Bradshaws" or the "Superstitions", the "Santa Rosas" or wherever would be good enough for me. But, without even a general idea of the area they apply to, any serious work in figuring them out is mostly wild guessing.

For anyone with a basic working knowledge of Spanish Monument and Marker Construction can figure out the Trail Maps.

1. The solid dots connected by a line are distance measurements and trail marker. Typically, the solid dot and line marker shows a distance of 100 walking varas between dots (a walking vara is approximately 31 inches).

2. The "X"s are nothing more than Monuments or Markers showing that you are on the correct trail. Notice they are all on the same side of the trail, and the same distance from that side. Those are the rules for trail monument markers/monuments. They must be on the same side of the trail, and the same distance to that side.

3. The horseshoe looking symbol is a well known symbol for mine/cave. That comes at the end of the trail. Somewhere near the large heart.

All that is fairly simple. You just have to get the right place to start walking!

Best,

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Hi Mike!

You know, there is a fellow who has a theory about the Peralta stones being related to a very different place (NOT in the Superstitions at all) - if the fellow were not such a far-out individual (to put it lightly - he is no longer a member here on T-net as far as I know) the idea might make sense. I am sure you know whom we are talking about, and the place he believed the maps were related to so will not post it here publicly.
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Who was the fellow? I know Aurum (Matthew Roberts) just posted here today, He's the one that believes the Stone Maps refer to the Arizpe Mission. That's not a secret any more. He's not a far out there guy either. I guess it's not him you are referring to.

OK, just give me the name, and I'll know where you are thinking.

There is the nutjob who thinks the stone maps are related to Utah. Also the OTHER nutjob, but I don't remember him having an opinion about the stone maps.

Best,

Mike

 

[DEMON]

mike please that guy in aveator has had enoough i feel for the
poor guy