TREASURE TRAP!

Hello Eric thanks for the info brother,I wanted to ask you 1st of all how do you find the? airshaft? it sounded like it was under? 4 to 6 ft of dirt ?do you find the mine and then dig above it looking for airshaft or is it normally exposed? and how far from the entrance of the mine is the airshaft usually located? and do all these mines have an air shaft? or most? and you said before about the floor jacks and something about the 1st 2 layers being the boulder layers or trap layers where you have to brace the shaft, could you elaborate in detail about this and maybee post a drawing of how you have to brace and look for trap in the air shaft? thank you for sharing Eric tammahawk ??? ;D
 

JACKO:
Yes poisons scare me too. But I think it is the least of your worries. To learn all about these wonderful chemicals the Spanish used read "De re Metallica" by G.A.Agricola,in the English translation. I believe poisons are not nearly as bad as falling down a trap door or having a boulder land on your head. Poisons are easy,don't breath it,and don't touch it. With all this homeland security stuff,their has got to be more air testers,and respiratory gear than ever. What is important is you must understand what the possible danger is before you go into some cave.

tammahawk:
The air shaft is usually way the heck on top of the mine. They are not easy to get to. Mountain climbing might be a worthwhile hobby.Once you are on top there are a few options. A rake or a shovel can be used,and you just guess. A two box detector if you know how to use it will detect caves. If I was still living on the edge,today I would use a laser thermometer. You point it at the ground and read the ground temperature. Caves underneath will change the temperature of the surface.

Don't have photos of the jacks. Camera was destroyed with everything else. After loosing everything suddenly a camera did not sound so important.

Let me try to put this in perspective. I had about $200 of steel support on the side walls. Jacks similar to what I used can be bought in Auto supply stores. As long as it will crank 3 feet or more. You can use wood to compensate for any shortness you have.

But as I later pondered,it would have been incredably easy for me to put the jack to high or to low. I also could not have given enough support for the boulders. Maybe I could have underestimated the weight. There also could have been a manufacturing defect in one of the jacks. I was playing with my life with $200 of steel.

Please find you a copy of "Death Traps to Treasure", you need to read it again and again. Understanding the dangers is the responsible thing to do. This will give you information as to the dimensions of pozos. Don't think that every pozo will be exactly like the king may have wanted it

After understanding the dangers you can call on that inner treasure hunter for guidance. I have no doubt that you will find better solutions than I ever came up with.

I will hunt treasure until the day that I die. But I won't die for treasure.

Ericwt
 

ericwt said:
JACKO:
Yes poisons scare me too. But I think it is the least of your worries. To learn all about these wonderful chemicals the Spanish used read "De re Metallica" by G.A.Agricola,in the English translation. I believe poisons are not nearly as bad as falling down a trap door or having a boulder land on your head. Poisons are easy,don't breath it,and don't touch it. With all this homeland security stuff,their has got to be more air testers,and respiratory gear than ever. What is important is you must understand what the possible danger is before you go into some cave.

tammahawk:
The air shaft is usually way the heck on top of the mine. They are not easy to get to. Mountain climbing might be a worthwhile hobby.Once you are on top there are a few options. A? rake or a shovel can be used,and you just guess. A two box detector if you know how to use it will detect caves. If I was still living on the edge,today I would use a laser thermometer. You point it at the ground and read the ground temperature. Caves underneath will change the temperature of the surface.

Don't have photos of the jacks. Camera was destroyed with everything else. After loosing everything suddenly a camera did not sound so important.

Let me try to put this in perspective. I had about $200 of steel support on the side walls. Jacks similar to what I used can be bought in Auto supply stores. As long as it will crank 3 feet or more. You can use wood to compensate for any shortness you have.

But as I later pondered,it would have been incredably easy for me to put the jack to high or to low. I also could not have given enough support for the boulders. Maybe I could have underestimated the weight. There also could have been a manufacturing defect in one of the jacks. I was playing with my life with $200 of steel.

Please find you a copy of "Death Traps to Treasure", you need to read it again and again. Understanding the dangers is the responsible thing to do. This will give you information as to the dimensions of pozos. Don't think that every pozo will be exactly like the king may have wanted it

After understanding the dangers you can call on that inner treasure hunter for guidance. I have no doubt that you will find better solutions than I ever came up with.

I will hunt treasure until the day that I die. But I won't die for treasure.

Ericwt
Hi eric for 1 you never answered my question you just say way on top,give me an average from what youve seen how far is the pojo from the entrance "average distance" and how would a metal detector help u find the pozo did they line it with metal or something? and 2 box detectors whats a good 1 ? and another whats a good but inexpensive one so every one can get the most for their buck?, and is there a certain laser thermometer that youve used with success? and I thought 2 of having a floor jack around or a couple they may save ur life if you got pinned in,
 

tammahawk . On the two box question
how would a metal detector help u find the pozo did they line it with metal or something?

You all please corrct me if i am wrong , but I understand these detectors have a Cave mode feature to locate caves, wells or tunnels. I think that is what ericwt was talking about.
Thanks
Fernie
 

There is no set measurement for where the air vent is placed. I never thought of measuring it. I have seen some as far in as 20 feet away from the edge. But I thought I made it clear on the pozo measurements. This information is in the books I keep recomending.

Why do I have to go look it up for you? Do your homework. Read what is available.

The subject on this thread is death traps. There are other places here to discuss treasure hunting techniques,including searching for caves.

If a airvent rock seals the cave when you are in it,no jack is going to help you. You will die in that cave.

I see my words are worthless in this regard. Thats okay,I am a slow learner. To all the people who say that I am spreading fear for nothing,I will point out in an earlier post I said that most Spanish treasure is not death trapped.

But it is your job to learn the symbols and what challenges you might face. Then you need to find your own solutions.

I was hoping I would get through to some of you.Perhaps I did to some. Treasure is everywhere. Why risk your life for it?

Ericwt
 

ericwt said:
There is no set measurement for where the air vent is placed. I never thought of measuring it. I have seen some as far in as 20 feet away from the edge. But I thought I made it clear on the pozo measurements. This information is in the books I keep recomending.

Why do I have to go look it up for you? Do your homework. Read what is available.

The subject on this thread is death traps. There are other places here to discuss treasure hunting techniques,including searching for caves.

If a airvent rock seals the cave when you are in it,no jack is going to help you. You will die in that cave.

I see my words are worthless in this regard. Thats okay,I am a slow learner. To all the people who say that I am spreading fear for nothing,I will point out in an earlier post I said that most Spanish treasure is not death trapped.

But it is your job to learn the symbols and what challenges you might face. Then you need to find your own solutions.

I was hoping I would get through to some of you.Perhaps I did to some. Treasure is everywhere. Why risk your life for it?

Ericwt
your getting through, but sometimes you leave a lot out, tryin to fill in the blanks, not all of us have read these books yet, am reading 3 different books right now and reading all forums and researching kgc treasure online? so i do my homework, im doing? more than 90 percent of y'all are doing? out there! anyone else reading 3 treasure books at a time and doing other research as well,? hell i want my treasure hunting phd soon hehe lol, and thats why we have forums for discussing the unknown and the known, just got, of men and gold, and the cool thing when i opened it it was pen autographed "nice" so dont be stinge? pots on the forum not all of us are masters of the art yet!? ;D
 

ericwt said:
There is no set measurement for where the air vent is placed. I never thought of measuring it. I have seen some as far in as 20 feet away from the edge. But I thought I made it clear on the pozo measurements. This information is in the books I keep recomending.

Why do I have to go look it up for you? Do your homework. Read what is available.

The subject on this thread is death traps. There are other places here to discuss treasure hunting techniques,including searching for caves.

If a airvent rock seals the cave when you are in it,no jack is going to help you. You will die in that cave.

I see my words are worthless in this regard. Thats okay,I am a slow learner. To all the people who say that I am spreading fear for nothing,I will point out in an earlier post I said that most Spanish treasure is not death trapped.

But it is your job to learn the symbols and what challenges you might face. Then you need to find your own solutions.

I was hoping I would get through to some of you.Perhaps I did to some. Treasure is everywhere. Why risk your life for it?

Ericwt
oh and i must ask a pozo is a small opening how do you get a large boulder big enough to seal it shut inside to seal it and why would it be unmovable if tripped and what trips it is it just a loose stone that sits high and to one side with like say a stick to hold it up, so if you move the stick to get thru the rock moves and closes that shaft? hows that work, and i know my way around traps and have been reading about them since i was little, I trapped for years but animals not people payed for many xmas presents doing so , just trying to see how they used these tactics for gaurding treasure i am not woried about them once i know how they work, but that knowledge is good knowledge, and ya never know one of these young kids reading this post may be wiser and go home instead of being a pancake, so if your gonna post here post! ;D and also I must ask when the Kings men came for their 5th at these sealed mines How did they recover the treasures? How did they get around these traps?or reopen the mine?,they must of had a way to do it i would have to believe that were true?
 

The best way to understand is to read "Death Traps to Treasure". I guarantee it will answer your questions better than I can. It has diagrams showing the most common death traps.

Please read it and please be careful.

Ericwt
 

JACKO said:
Treasure trap that'll seal your tomb--- Don't know if I posted this before or not.
This is a real death trap !!!!!!!!!!!!
Notice the rocks on the bottom. the one next to the large boulder is a heart with the left lobe cut off. I believe it what starts things in motion. the other two rocks if you notice form an "L" like they are resting along the outer edge of trap door, balancing the heart. If I should go to the boulder to read it, My weight would set off the trap and there probably is a hole some 20-30 feet deep. then the boulder comes down and covers hole and the boulder on top will just fall and had more weight to lid of coffin.
Now sometimes the heart points to the safe route, I don't think so in this case, you'll see in the next picture. Notice the triangle hole to the left??
personally jacko that doesnt look like a death trap at least to me, for one it would be in a narrow passage, i see no sign of coliche,square edge you refer to, if you look right there is a rock juttin out to right, and the big rock is leaning to the left i dont believe is a movable rock, someone needs to debunk these, thats familiar with them, I just dont see a trigger or a way to make a trap at this area,if you think its hollow on the floor, hit it with a hammer and see if it sounds hollow,that surely will tell the tale,or use somekinda drill and drill a hole there, if its caliche be careful if its solid there no trap there!
 

JACKO said:
Tammahawk-- You said, it would have to be a narrow passage way, in Picture 117, is hows how narrow this is, less than 3 ft. opening here. Look at the shinny part of rock to the right. See the heart?? The tip of it is seperated, meaning death. You said (refering to the triangle crawl space) there is a rock pointing to the right and the big rock didn't look movable. Your right about the big rocks to the right. but that rock pointing to the right may only be hel up by a small stone and if touched could fall and bring down the others above.
Now the big rock in 1st picture--- You said you don't see caliche, who says you have to see it. that dust could have blown in over the years, or placed on top. Besides this the floor cracks would only have caliche in them. NOW take a close look at the right wall (in 1 st. picture) and the floor, where they meet see that black line??? That tells me the floor and wall are not conected. Also, all along the edge of this boulder and the one on top are not connected to wall or floor, you cansee the black shadow going around them. this picture # 773 shows the second boulder and the prince on top (you can't see) Notice the far right half way down is a lightning bolt !!!! both these boulders are at least 2 ft. thick.
You also, said to tap the floor to see if it was hollow, well, I am not going to do that, if I hit too hard or cause too much dust then I might be in trouble.

If I set this trap off and the side of mountain didn't come down, I'd still have 2-3 more traps to go threw, plus what bad air might be eclosed behind those boulders.

? ?Jacko
once again i am not seeing it, i dont even see the lightning bolt, you need to edit with paint so you can out line what ur seeing cause i cant see it, any of it,sorry tammahawk
 

I don't know how to eidt with paint or anything else. So, if you still can't see them after this explanation, I don't know how to help.
Front of cave----- far right, bottom right--- there is a black streak coming from far right side. follow it till it stops. Now just about 1/4" up is the heart it is pointing to your left, it is etched out in black line,(the heart is whitish) it also has a black "S" shape in lower lobe.
Now lightning bolt is just like the one's you see in the book.
Start at bottom right again--- see the all white area?? between that and the brown area is a black crack going stragiht up. now where the black crack get smaller is a bend to the left. NOTICE THE SHARP POINT being black. the black area gets bigger as it goes up. This is how the colors run from right to left--- White, black brown. As this black line get bigger it makes a "L" shape and goes up at an angle. That is the lightning bolt in MY EYES, and I WON"T cange my line of thinking. I have only been at this treasure hunting for about 7 mo. But my first adventure, I have THREE death traps and I am still alive. Without any books, until recently, Thanks to a good chap on this forum.
Before I went out I looked at THU and copied the warning signs down 1 ST. Which I am glad I did, cause I found all THREE the 1 st. time in field. If I had not taken these with me or was too big for my britches, I'd rushed in this cave to get the map off the boulders and be DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's hard to see everythingthe first time you look at something, but eventually your eye and mind will start working together. Hell, evertime I look at my old pictures and new ones, each time I see something I missed before. But, death traps are only a one time shot, that's why I take lots of pictures before I do anything stupid like move a rock.

? Jacko
 

I think your Pictures Suck Jacko and you need to practice on the computer to learn a little about paint and photoshop if your going to use pictures to save your life, but I do think you are going about the rest of this the right way and I appreciate your willingness to step back and think it out and be observant. The thought process seems to be one of self preservation which I believe Eric has been trying to convey vs/ the gungho /rip rock and roll attitude. The only reason you need to get your computer skills up is if you are going to use a tool learn how to use it right. Their are Plenty of guys with tape measures out there, but for some reason they keep cutting the board wrong. This is one of the best threads on TN . and I appreciate everyones input on this subject. It has really intrigued me and I have learned a lot myself. Looking forward to more.
 

JACKO said:
I don't know how to eidt with paint or anything else. So, if you still can't see them after this explanation, I don't know how to help.

Front of cave----- far right, bottom right--- there is a black streak coming from far right side. follow it till it stops. Now just about 1/4" up is the heart it is pointing to your left, it is etched out in black line,(the heart is whitish) it also has a black "S" shape in lower lobe.

Now lightning bolt is just like the one's you see in the book.

Start at bottom right again--- see the all white area?? between that and the brown area is a black crack going stragiht up. now where the black crack get smaller is a bend to the left. NOTICE THE SHARP POINT being black. the black area gets bigger as it goes up. This is how the colors run from right to left--- White, black brown. As this black line get bigger it makes a "L" shape and goes up at an angle. That is the lightning bolt in MY EYES, and I WON"T cange my line of thinking. I have only been at this treasure hunting for about 7 mo. But my first adventure, I have THREE death traps and I am still alive. Without any books, until recently, Thanks to a good chap on this forum.
Before I went out I looked at THU and copied the warning signs down 1 ST. Which I am glad I did, cause I found all THREE the 1 st. time in field. If I had not taken these with me or was too big for my britches, I'd rushed in this cave to get the map off the boulders and be DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, if you can't see the tree's because of the forest, might be a god time to find a safer hobbie.
It's hard to see everythingthe first time you look at something, but eventually your eye and mind will start working together. Hell, evertime I look at my old pictures and new ones, each time I see something I missed before. But, death traps are only a one time shot, that's why I take lots of pictures before I do anything stupid like move a rock.

? Jacko
Jacko Im gonna show you real easy how to edit with paint ok?, I hope you have windows xp, 1st of all make another copy of your photo so you have a backup clean copy of it, then just find your picture where its saved and right click it, in the drop down you then click edit and it will automatically come up in paint ,real easy to do then use little pencil or whatever and you can highlight or write on any digital photo, makes it easy to point stuff out, and i still dont think you have a death trap, you got every reason to be paranoid though, so be careful as u can, you need to photo these things better your photos are not revealing anything definitive, take your time make sure you edit right at the site get rid of pics that come out bad ,so you get the most outa your pics you bring home, you can change paints color to use yellow to highlight, well good luck jacko tammahawk
 

Tammahawk-- I have Millenium and don't have that option. I have photsuite 111 and I tried there and didn't have it either. Maybe I sould measure the spot from corner to corner or something.? thanks for your help, I sure wished it would work.


Floater-- Sorry you don't like my pictures, You just can't please everyone, the nice thing about it.? YOU have the option to look or not look. These pictures where taken the first couple of times I was out, still very, very new. I go by myself (which is stupid, but don't know anyone I can trust) so I am very cautious.
Since the time of these pictures, I am able to see things without, the picture but still take them for the finer and sometimes imprtant signs.
I use a cheap $89 camera only 2 pixil. What camera do you use??? It might be my camera. Have you posted any pictures here that I could compare with, I might have to up grade my camera. Good luck on your hunt Floater


? ?Jacko
 

JACKO said:
Tammahawk-- I have Millenium and don't have that option. I have photsuite 111 and I tried there and didn't have it either. Maybe I sould measure the spot from corner to corner or something.? thanks for your help, I sure wished it would work.


Floater-- Sorry you don't like my pictures, You just can't please everyone, the nice thing about it.? YOU have the option to look or not look. These pictures where taken the first couple of times I was out, still very, very new. I go by myself (which is stupid, but don't know anyone I can trust) so I am very cautious.
Since the time of these pictures, I am able to see things without, the picture but still take them for the finer and sometimes imprtant signs.
I use a cheap? $89 camera only 2 pixil. What camera do you use??? It might be my camera. Have you posted any pictures here that I could compare with, I might have to up grade my camera.? ?Good luck on your hunt Floater


? ?Jacko
Jacko in that? 117 pic top right of pic there may be a lightning bolt its hard to see , if it really is a lightning bolt its near the ceiling witch would indicate death from above, and i see a large boulder coming from ceiling in that picture, but its still hard to tell for sure definatly if its is,if your worried that indeed it maybee a trap ,take a long stick of some kind and somehow fasten the camera to it,most digital cameras have a 30 second timer for takin self pics you could use this feature and reach into the cave with out touchin the floor or anything else! and then you could see for sure and then you could proceed accordingly,? tammahawk
 

Tammahawk-- I am sitting at he small end of opening when I too these pictures. I had to hold my arm out and point camera to get some of the pictures.
Go back to the Spanish Markers and take a look at the cave opening. You'll see the 30-40 tone boulder looks like a skull with no jaw. It is not atttached anywhere and small rocks are holding it in place, If I can find the picutre of the "V" shaped rock just above my head when taking pictures you'll see what I mean. Also, take a look at the picture that has a princess in it. it's a different angle and you'll see more with it. there is a deers head in white that hase been placed in cut out area and the neck of the deer runs about 2-3 ft. along edge,I think this holds everything up at the top level.
I'll post more tonight have to get to work around the house.


Jacko
 

if there is indeed a trap there jacko i dont not believe the floor is false, but maybee a deadfall, if it is you must find the trigger once you find the trigger, i can tell you how to disable it hopefully, i am familiar with this traps theory from many years of trapping, but they may have changed it to trap men so hard to say just yet, I wish i could actually see a real trigger,it should be hidden but obvious to a trapper, one thing hopefully they didnt make the trigger after the boulder that could be trickier as to seal u in behind the rock, but i have never heard of a combo deadfall false bottom trap all in one, if anyone else has please comment
 

There are probably two triggers, I'll show tonight. One is the "V" (jagged) that's holds the gigantic skull up the other, you can just barely see the out line of the deer head in the picture with the princess. I'll hae to change the coloring of photo to see it better.


Jacko
 

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