Treasure Signs and Symbols 101

[Clay Lindsey]

SWR,

You are smart to ask for instances of written history in order to satisfactorily answer your question. Of which, most likely there are none or are tucked away deep inside of some inaccessible archive in a foreign country somewhere. Most of what you ask of people is in reference to their faith on any particular subject. Yet you find yourself disappointed when the outcome doesn't match your anticipated result. I would suggest you start finding solace in the theoretical or ask more answerable questions with a more predictable outcome. Sir, I too, am a skeptic. But for me, it makes discovery that much more satisfying. Thank you for your time and consideration.

P.S. Are your the same Jim Daniels with Shallow Water Recovery in Tampa, Fl that received so much Yamashi-a notoriety in 2008?

Clay

 

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[Clay Lindsey]

SWR,

You give me no choice but to psychoanalyze you on this forum. You have provided no input of your own for us to judge you by. Just questions. If you had the answers you seek, what would you do with that information? Would you simply go gently into the night and vanish? I think not.

I think you secretly need us. I think we are your guilty indulgence. We are here for your amusement Jim.

Clay

 

[Shortstack]

SWR,

Yes, the Jesuits did play party to the conversion and eventual oppression of native cultures. Living here in the Southwest, I see genetic evidence of their indescretions everyday in the faces of hispanic peoples.

SS,
Those are "highly shined" Army boots, not patent leather. I recognize those anywhere...

Clay

Clay, those are not spit shined combat boots. I have spit shined enough of them to know the difference. Sometime during the 1970s or so, patent leather combat boots and dress shoes became permissible to wear by regs and available in BX's and PX's as well as Base Clothing Sales Stores. I used patent leather dress shoes with my Class A's and B's because I just got tired of the spit shine routine. I simply cleaned, waxed and buffed my flight boots without the spit. LOL Back when we still had capped toed combat boots, you could get a great spit shine, but those dang jungle boots were brought out and the capped toed boots were left behind. You could NEVER get a decent, deep spit shine on any boot but the capped toe jump boots NOT the limp jungle boots. I think that the only people who actually wore the patent leather combat(?) boots were what SSgt Barry Sadler called "garret troopers". (and maybe a pimp or two)

Now, as far as the Jesuits being such compassionate and Godly people; SWR, do you really think the Indians rebelled and killed the SOBs because of their kindness Nope. The PRIESTS were loved and respected...........the Jesuits were HATED. If you don't believe that, then roll over and ask lamar. If he'll be truthful to you, he'll confirm the historical truth as I just pointed out.

Now, back to the subject.................AGAIN. The Jesuits were mostly in charge of the recovery, processing, and the hiding or transportation of the gold and other valuables BECAUSE of their ruthlessness and firm allegiance to the crown. NOT in spite of it. That is also why they would keep strictly to the rules set down by the King of Spain, who they followed almost as closely as the Pope.

 

[okey dokey]

Come on guys, give us a break. There are thousands of viewers to these threads who are just trying to learn something. We could care less about your rantings and one-up-manship. Just give your opinion about the signs and let it be. Tells us why you believe what you do by quoting a resource or just say it is your experience. Treasure marks and signs are solid evidence and sometimes "P". All the yak about Jesuits, KGC, etc. is debateable and goes on another thread.
Thanks for your understanding.
Okey dokey

 

[Clay Lindsey]

SWR,

No Sir, you willingly come here for us to judge you. It is the manner in which your participate in this FORUM that makes this case. We indulge your incessant lines of questioning because we want you to feel accepted. Does it make you feel better to stimulate a revolving line of questioning with no end? I believe you have yet to participate in this FORUM. If you were to let go of all of your insecurities, you may find you would have a more pleasurable time here in this FORUM. Or, as a pleasant alternative, provide some factual information of your own as a counterpoint.

As a matter of consequence, yes, I am nuts. Now, in an act of courtesy to my fellow treasure seekers, I will let this be. I have entertained you for far too long. Favor us by not to looking too hard down your nose at us in the future.

Clay

 

[Clay Lindsey]

As for the use of the (a) bible as a source of code, it is extremely plausible. In agreeing with Springfield that the bible is a personal account of life at the time it was written, even with the fallacy of the human hand, does not disprove it's potential usage as a code book being that the activity in question was conducted after the book was written.

Brother Joseph Mobberly, S.J. in 1818 wrote in his diary on the morality of owning slaves verses the biblical legitamacy of keeping them. An act we see today as criminal, but commonplace then. Thomas J. Murphy, S.J. of Maryland (1717-1838) is another example.

Without a copy of the Spanish Law, we can't prove beyond a doubt the bible was used in this manner. But, through association, we can legitimize this claim by looking at other aspects of their life that was dictated by the bible. As for the version of the bible they used. Tradition would dictate modern day Jesuits, with a high degree of certainty, use the same version as their historical counterparts.

It is not blasphemy IF you believe it to be the will of God.

Clay

 

[Springfield]

Re SWR: he is vilified here because the questions he asks cannot be answered with verifiable facts. No matter how strongly you believe in your personal/group theories concerning 'treasure signs', the truth is that all of it is speculation based on circumstantial evidence. When someone reminds you of this, you get angry - maybe because you don't want to face the possibility that much of the time and energy you're spending following the self-proclaimed internet gurus may have been wasted. You are finding signs in the field, yes, but most of them have absolutely nothing to do with 'treasure'. The very few that do are more than likely something different than you want to believe. Believe what you want, but when someone asks you to demonstrate the truth in it, your anger tells volumes.

Re KJV: this edition may well be a 'code book' of sorts, but remind yourself who wrote it and when. Maybe some day you'll leave the all-encompassing 'Spanish treasure' fantasy behind.

 

[Clay Lindsey]

Springfield,

I also agree that many people give creedence to certain s/s than they are due and often they are misread. The validation of who created the "rock formations" in question does not disprove their existance. And if they exist, they can be analyzed and their meanings ascertained. 100 years from now we may be closer to that answer. The debate on the subject is a necessary part of the analytical process. At the end of the day, some legitimately find the gold at the end of the rainbow and some lie about it. As always, a responsible person takes the information they recieve with a grain of salt until it can be satisfactorily proven to them as valid.

For everyone else,

Regardless of what you believe, you have to be able to establish the possibility before others become more willing to agree with you. When that happens, we can get back to business.

Clay

 

[rangler]

Springfield,
I guess my point to you was, that the Dead Sea Scrolls made before the Greeks and Aramaic translators got their hands on them ..... were amazingly accurate according to Biblical Scholars!
when compared to today's King James Version.
Two things that are important.
1. A tiny imperceptible change does not effect the reason for the Bible.
2. Likewise for the bible verse clues chiseled on boulders by the code makers
are today still meaningful using the KJV.

(please no in depth discussions about these points, this sidebars ends with this comment
because I dont want to hijack my own thread, since I have a half dozen professionals here
who are doing a good job all ready!)
Absolutely the Bible was written by mere mortals, such as it should be..but they were compelled
once they were enlightened, to be Evangelists. To spread the gift of the Word of God.


In regard to the Jesuits "breaking the Law", well retrospectively, and pure objectively
you MUST conclude they DID break law, and got punished for it! Period. Whats more
the way the bust was planned and culminated, coordinated to kick the doors down on
the same day all over New Spain, shows they wanted to get the 'goods' before they were
hid or carried away. Included in this would be the Code Book...that the Franciscan's would
need to try to attempt to carry on the Jesuits work...of course they failed miserably.

A word about the Jesuits using the Bible as a Code book, this is overstated in that they
used only Bibles Verses for the most part, just to put their brand on the site, and to give
a little tone or impression of what they were doing or feeling. Decidedly the intent for the
most part was CONFIRMATION. Most of the ones I have
found in the field, like the P8 found in the supers,and elsewhere, are admonitions, others are lamentations,still others are Confirmations.. example

P8 = Proverbs , chapter 8, "Seek knowledge rather than Silver, seek understanding rather
than Gold."
D4 = Duet. , chapter 4 ,"These are the statutes and judgments that I give you this day."

If you look close on a real Monument at your site, you will find a Bible Verse clue.

Simple as that, the only ones that are more explicit is the book of John . I will not quote that
here because it has been posted, the ones who deserve to know will look it up those that
are only here to disrupt will not because they are not interested in working for something or learning anything ...it is not their forte.
oro pura
rangler

 

[Clay Lindsey]

Nicely put, Rangler. My apologies if I had presented myself as a nuisance.

If I may... Bible verses can potentially be found elsewhere along the trail. I have found quite a few references to Tobit (Tobias) while working the business end of the site. The verses have always referred to something you can physically see from where you are standing or have provided direction to another point. (OD had made this info available some time ago in another thread.)

Clay

 

[rangler]

Clay
....."if I had presented myself as a nuisance".
Nope-I don't see how a true treasure hunter like yourself could annoy me in any way..~!

great little piece of data, nice to know too , I have only seen one Bible Verse that was not on the Alpha, it was for a passage that mentioned the current name of a mountain, kinda in passing, that was were the trail turned....what I couldn't understand was how that mountain keep the same name over the centuries..guess some things just stick?

Where the Tobias signs what KW outlined in his book?
thanks
rangler

 

[Clay Lindsey]

As for what Kenworthy wrote, I haven't seen it. But I will post an example...

Admittedly it looks simply like a "T", but there are two passages in Tobit(Tobias) that make reference to the number 45. It could mean 45 paces, 45 degrees or 45 something. This one was forty five degrees. The top line of the "T" is natural. They added the upright to make the letter.

I have another refering to a specific Tobias reference, but it's the only one I have and I'm feeling a little stingy with that one. Forgive me... I reduced the size of the photo to protect some hard earned info.

Here's the "T".

Clay

 

[rangler]

Clay,
consider that T is the 20th letter,
Proverbs 20 says...

"Gold there is, and rubies in abundance,
but lips that speak knowledge are a rare jewel."

I found this after finding a 'PT' carved on a stone near a site...
might be another example of dual and triple use of some signs.
rangler

 

[minetres]

At one time I found a perfect Tobias "T" chiseled in a rock and the longpart was pointed directly to a large burial unfortunately the treasure had been removed.

Minetres

 

[tesoro dog]

Peoples!! I have taken over 20,000 pictures,, this is why!! When I first saw it after I got home,, I thought Coin,, But it could also mean Communion!! Communion with God! td

 

[Shortstack]

Hey, TDog.
That's some find. When you go back, I'd sure be interested in hearing what kine of coin it is. Old; new; in between........
The coin gives a good size reference for the area in the photo. Now, without comment from me; what do YOU see in the 2 circles?

 

[tesoro dog]

Stack! It might not be a coin,, could be just a Sun Sign on a polished stone, but if you zoom,, it almost looks translucent, like a piece of Tourmaline or some other crystal!!

As for the circled areas,, the one on right looks like a face with it's hair flying back behind it,, and it's arm is pointing to the crack/line/mouth on that other circled rock on the left, with the white dot in it, looks like the spot to run the tf-900 over!!

The other circled spot, the left side of it looks like man/woman (holding) a child or another person,, and the right side of the stone, I can't tell. But my guess is the reflection in the eye,, of the Coin/Host!! Great eye's Stack, I will try to get back out there manana!! Peace And Thanks! td PS. Stack notice on the two pics,, you can see the crack/line/mouth has a golden tint to it!

 

[Shortstack]

Take one more look.

 

[tesoro dog]

Stack! In most rocks/formations,, you can see at least a (minimum) of 3 faces or figures,, The Holy Trinity! What are You seeing??! td

 

[hadji009]

some1 had the bull by the horn. with a T on his cheek, sun spooks,#5 or 3 and cross?