Treasure of the 7th Seal... NOT the Beale Treasure

[releventchair]

A lodge or a church can provide a start in a new to traveler(s)area. And with a business network. Agreed it does not have to be exclusive or secret. Some familiarity during transition .

 

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[ECS]

A lodge or a church can provide a start in a new to traveler(s)area. And with a business network. Agreed it does not have to be exclusive or secret. Some familiarity during transition .

As an ODD FELLOWS LODGE during RECONSTRUCTION with esoteric symbols carved on the front door?

 

[bigscoop]

Huge money, as we’re talking here, having been transported from west to east is the work of seriously influential people and not the work of thirty average Joe’s or some mysterious cult-like society or startup venture. The notion that it was anything else simply derives from the dreams of men wanting to believe in these types of dreams and endlessly will them to be that way. “If” any of the Beale Story is true then it wasn’t the work of simple, common men of means, not even a well-organized party of such. Even before they left on their adventure these men were recruited and they had to agree to certain terms and sign on the dotted line. This should tell you a lot about the type of people involved. This was not orchestrated on a whim. A lot of prior planning and forethought went into the transfers long before they were ever undertaken. Given these others ideas you may have, and since we know the adventure portion of the story isn’t true, then what possible circumstance in connection with these other ideas could have given rise for the two large transfers coming from west to east? There is absolutely no reason for it and “zero” evidence to any of it.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Huge money, as we’re talking here, having been transported from west to east is the work of seriously influential people and not the work of thirty average Joe’s or some mysterious cult-like society or startup venture. The notion that it was anything else simply derives from the dreams of men wanting to believe in these types of dreams and endlessly will them to be that way. “If” any of the Beale Story is true then it wasn’t the work of simple, common men of means, not even a well-organized party of such. Even before they left on their adventure these men were recruited and they had to agree to certain terms and sign on the dotted line. This should tell you a lot about the type of people involved. This was not orchestrated on a whim. A lot of prior planning and forethought went into the transfers long before they were ever undertaken. Given these others ideas you may have, and since we know the adventure portion of the story isn’t true, then what possible circumstance in connection with these other ideas could have given rise for the two large transfers coming from west to east? There is absolutely no reason for it and “zero” evidence to any of it.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the fact that you say, "IF any of the Beale Story is true...," then how do you know it wasn't the work of simple, common men of means, not even a well-organized party of such? And you KNOW the adventure portion of the story isn’t true?

 

[releventchair]

6 months from st. Louis to santer fee an adventure in my book. Plus from mo. To old Virginny. Wagon downtime and keeping stock working with what a half ton load each wagon. May have taken the fun out of killing needed game and harassing ol griz but enough adventure for anyone.

 

[bigscoop]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the fact that you say, "IF any of the Beale Story is true...," then how do you know it wasn't the work of simple, common men of means, not even a well-organized party of such? And you KNOW the adventure portion of the story isn’t true?

A) For several reasons that have been outlined many times by several different individuals, the adventure portion of the story was, "impossible as it was told". It simply couldn't have happened as it was told. Very few will even attempt to argue this anymore.
B) Find me one other documented case where simple men of means were the driving force behind the "unnoticed" transfer of a great quantity of treasure over a rugged and hostile terrain for a vast distance. Shoot, just tell me about "once"...let alone "twice". If you can tell me about one then it was "noticed" and "recorded" somewhere along the way, and if you can't tell me of one,........."instant reality check".
C) There is just as much supporting credible evidence to suggest the Beale Papers were nothing more then a common faction, dime novel.

 

[bigscoop]

6 months from st. Louis to santer fee an adventure in my book. Plus from mo. To old Virginny. Wagon downtime and keeping stock working with what a half ton load each wagon. May have taken the fun out of killing needed game and harassing ol griz but enough adventure for anyone.

If you want to believe that Beale was out west at a secret mine at the same time he was in Virginia making the first deposit, then ok, that's your choice. But maybe you best read the entire narration of that first journey and return again, this time keeping track of the offered time table.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

A) For several reasons that have been outlined many times by several different individuals, the adventure portion of the story was, "impossible as it was told". It simply couldn't have happened as it was told. Very few will even attempt to argue this anymore.
B) Find me one other documented case where simple men of means were the driving force behind the "unnoticed" transfer of a great quantity of treasure over a rugged and hostile terrain for a vast distance. Shoot, just tell me about "once"...let alone "twice". If you can tell me about one then it was "noticed" and "recorded" somewhere along the way, and if you can't tell me of one,........."instant reality check".
C) There is just as much supporting credible evidence to suggest the Beale Papers were nothing more then a common faction, dime novel.

Then I guess the fact that the Beale Papers could actually be nothing more then a common faction, dime novel, is the answer you're asking for. "COULD BE" being the key words. If there's JUST AS MUCH evidence for that, and you say IT'S possible, then what?

You want to see another case where this is reported to have happened. Why would you want to see that? If the first one could be fiction, and we both agree that it could be, then why couldn't the second one also be fiction? It's like the argument of the word "stampede" couldn't have been used by Beale, since that word wasn't used until a few years later by a writer. If the word couldn't have been used by Beale, being he was the first to use it, then it couldn't have been used by the writer either, who would also have been the first to use it. I'm not so sure we know, for certain, that this journey COULDN'T have happened as stated. Maybe unlikely, but maybe not impossible.

 

[releventchair]

If you want to believe that Beale was out west at a secret mine at the same time he was in Virginia making the first deposit, then ok, that's your choice. But maybe you best read the entire narration of that first journey and return again, this time keeping track of the offered time table.

Which narration? Oh theres lots odd to me in west part of story,i,m not trying to disprove it,others have years into it. Just pounding square peg in round hole. Putting other parties in it makes it easier to fit.

Seriously influential people? Vrs. average. Is that a money thing,or politics,or who does the work?.power waned thin out back of beyond. Society,s best and brightest driving the freight?. Any member of that group was free to walk,terms and signature aside.
Easy terms for treasure haulers under serious influence.

 

[bigscoop]

KK,
Sent you a PM.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

KK,
Sent you a PM.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

BACK! Found my copies of FOUNDATIONS UNEARTHED by Marie Bauer Hall & BRUTON PARISH CHURCHYARD: A Guide With Map by BPC, Williamsburg, Va.; INTERESTING Tombstones, Monuments & Mural Tablets... NOTHING on "vault" nor Beale Treasure/cipher(s).

 

[bigscoop]

BACK! Found my copies of FOUNDATIONS UNEARTHED by Marie Bauer Hall & BRUTON PARISH CHURCHYARD: A Guide With Map by BPC, Williamsburg, Va.; INTERESTING Tombstones, Monuments & Mural Tablets... NOTHING on "vault" nor Beale Treasure/cipher(s).

Bout time. You were a dreadful sight this morning, crashed in the hammock behind the Tiki Bar. I told you to lay off those fruity rum drinks!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Culper Spy Ring?

 

[bigscoop]

There are several documented stories out there if you are actually trying to find a story. Read the papers and journals of Dr. Robinson. Several large gun caches were made over-land as well as by sea down the Mississippi to New Orleans to the Texas Coast and across Texas before 1807 and through 1814 and later through the years of Beale's Expedition which was for the Patriot Army. The Patriot Army financed by Presidents Jefferson, Adams, Madison and Monroe. You need to read some of these histories stories it will convince you. As for the time line of the TJB Expedition I can find nothing wrong with them. The letters waiting for TJB was sent after he left Virginia in 1817. He picked those letters up on his trips through St. Louis and Franklin, MO. exactly at the times he told RM in his letters he was there in St. Louis. You can blow your smoke somewhere else. The Beale Treasure story really happened. It was told and sold by honest men that their integrity was checked out by honorable lawyers and men such as Clayton Hart and George Hart. H. Newton Hazelwood was also an attorney.

It is very simple math. If you really pay attention to the timeline in the story, "it was impossible"......math is a perfect science. No way could he have stayed at the mine for so long. You need to check this again. I know more about the histories of Jefferson, Adam's, Madison, and Monroe then you could possibly imagine. And you forgot Calhoun & Graham, and a host of others. Tell me something Franklin, why did Jefferson really buy the Louisiana Territory? Bet you don't know why he really made that purchase. You can read all you want from books, "some" good stuff to be found there. But it's only after you read the actual hundreds of documents, letters, etc., all of them, American, French & Spanish, that you really understand just how inaccurate the information in many of those books can be. So tell me, why did Jefferson really buy the Louisiana Territory? What was his greatest fear?

PS: Basically, from what you just wrote, you believe a faction of the Patriot Army (Beale's Party) discovered the treasure while on a government financed hunting trip? Not too long ago you were taking the stand that it was a CSA thing. And, let's not forget your sudden turnaround in support of Justintime's theory. Now you tell me, who's really blowing all the smoke here? Just saying, you don't seem very sure of yourself.

 

[bigscoop]

I am sure.

Sure of which one? Patriot Army in the teens, the CSA in the 60's, the Bacon thing? FYI,...Americans had active interest in the west even before 1807, even before the Louisiana Purchase, if you're so inclined to look for it.

 

[releventchair]

Trying to leave why alone as it was directed at Franklin. Did not sit right with Thomas (the how) but he felt it expedient. Would like to ask why France conceded? ?

 

[bigscoop]

Trying to leave why alone as it was directed at Frankn. Did not sit right with Thomas (the how) but he felt it expedient. Would like to ask why France conceded? ?

Don't confuse "purchase" with "treaty". Napoleon badly needed the money to keep his army going, this is why the land became available, though actually pursued by Jefferson at a most opportune time. As a result, and due his own immediate needs, Napoleon bit on the offer. Why did Jefferson pursue the purchase? In the beginning Napoleon was seen as a type of revolutionary figure, but not long after he was seen as a tyrant in pursuit of the world. It's not talked about much, though it should be, but Napoleon actually had a plan in place for the territory. Eventually he planned to occupy that territory and it was widely feared, and most probable, that he would strike an alliance with Spain. If he did this, which was his plan, the only way the US could defend itself would be to strike an alliance with...who else, Great Brittan. In essence, Jefferson made the purchase because he feared if he didn't the US would only end up giving back to Great Brittan what it had fought so hard to escape. This is why Jefferson really made that purchase. There is a letter in existence where Jefferson explains this very real concern.

 

[bigscoop]

The name is Franklin, there is another poster by the name Frankn.

I posted the other day bigscoop that I had definite proof that the treasure was buried before the 1860 Civil War. The Bruton Vault is still out there to be found. That is why I still believe Justintime may have something. It may or may not be different from the Beale Treasure but personally I believe the two are different treasures and both exist. I am trying to get in contact with a landowner to make a dig at one of the places I would like to dig for the Beale Treasure-----No luck yet.

I have three locations to excavate for the Beale Treasure. When I dig those three if the treasure is not at neither then you bigscoop and others can make your efforts for the treasure. My search is coming to an end.

Well, good luck with that Franklin. As for myself and my associates making efforts for a treasure, first we have to have absolute, documented proof that a treasure exist, and then conclusive proof of an "exact" location on top of that. Personally, I seriously doubt there is a remaining treasure to be found, at least not in the context everyone assumes.

 

[releventchair]

Gotcha Franklin,corrected spelling cleaned glasses, sorry. Scoop ,yes like others had ,England as one, to many fights on to many fronts led to American benefit. But such a chess piece recently acquired from Spain, given up had to hurt. But it relieved fear of conflict with France over New Orleans port and muddy river so many realised value of.
Kinda like a wet version of China wall.